OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[jaster]

I love the Clark pick and their competitive balance pick and 2nd rounder give them a deep middle of the infield prospect pool.

Agreed, although I wish they'd draft or acquire a true SS one day lol. None of their infielders project as MLB-average SSs. Between Keith, Jung, the two kids they just drafted, and a handful of other decent/good infield prospects, they have a boatload of 2Bs, 3Bs, and 1Bs.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I do appreciate the defensive aspect when it comes to Clark, especially juxtaposed against Langford, who will be a defensive liability. Based on what I've read, I still think Crews has the highest upside of all 3 though, or is at least the same as Clark (but is further along developmentally). But if we get a Corbin Carroll here, I'll of course be thrilled, regardless of what the other guys do.

My main worry is just that there is more room for things to go wrong with Clark, not so much that he will likely take longer to get to Detroit than Langford. Clark's not been tested against as good of competition, and has yet to hit against high velocity. I'm not trying to drag him down, as these are only concerns and not criticisms of his game. He's just more unproven. But I am more in love with the upside today than when they made the pick. "Toolsy" gets overused in the sense that so many "toolsy" guys flame out as nobodies all the time, but there does seem to be some legit projection in this case.

This isn't egregious, like taking Jobe over Mayer, which looked stupid the second it happened, but I just have some concerns. Hopefully Clark assuages them. Risk mainly having to do with age and low quality of competition aside, I have no problem with the player. And while I think Greene is a more legit CF than may give him credit for, I do agree and love the idea of having two young, excellent defenders in the outfield who can also hit. Gives you more option with the 3rd OF spot.

Not so much that Greene isn’t a center fielder, because I think he’s under appreciated in center, but I think it’s not necessarily his most natural position. I’d rather have Greene be a true plus corner outfielder, which will protect his body more, and then have Clark as a potential true plus plus CF.

CoPa is still a beast of an outfield to patrol, even with the reduced dimensions, and Clark is the first CF we’ve drafted who has the tools to effectively patrol it. Probably the first one since we had Austin Jackson and young Granderson before him.

 

[Ricelund]

Agreed, although I wish they'd draft or acquire a true SS one day lol. None of their infielders project as MLB-average SSs. Between Keith, Jung, the two kids they just drafted, and a handful of other decent/good infield prospects, they have a boatload of 2Bs, 3Bs, and 1Bs.

What do you mean? They drafted Marcelo Mayer... right?

 

[jaster]

What do you mean? They drafted Marcelo Mayer... right?

 

[BSHH]

At first, I was disappointed too when I saw them picking Clark (and Langford going immediately afterwards). But it may indeed the better choice, since Clark can add much more value in the field and on the basepaths. Basically Clark's and Langford's hit tools are equally seen as plus.

It would have been really nice to have a blue-chip prospect approaching what will hopefully be a good Tigers team in 2025. But the OF might be crowded by then with Greene as regular plus Carpenter, Vierling and Baddoo as current options; P. Meadows has his second good year, Malloy hits even better and will likely have to move to LF, perhaps even Keith will have to play RF. A bona-fide CF plus lead-off hitter like Clark projects tk be will definitely fill a void.

Since Clark obviously signed for under-slot money, the Tigers can sign McGonigle more easily. Getting another draftee who most had ranked just outside their top 20 is a nice fallout as well.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Ricelund]

 

[jaster]

The hits just keep on coming for the Tigers.

Rays can’t believe Tigers traded them Isaac Paredes: ‘F–king idiots’ (from one year ago)

After the red-hot Isaac Paredes socked his 13th home run of the season in Saturday’s 11-5 victory against the Toronto Blue Jays, he returned to the dugout to congratulations that included backslaps, fist pounds and interesting comment.

“Hey, the Tigers are f–king idiots,” someone told Paredes in a moment picked up by a hot mic. It is unclear which player or coach said it.

The Rays’ Isaac Paredes might be the best-kept secret in baseball

He has not only replaced Meadows’ power in the Rays’ lineup, he has done it at a younger age, a cheaper salary and at a more valuable position on the field. While Paredes will be arbitration-eligible next season for the first time, the Rays control his rights for the next four seasons.

They had a temporary hole in the outfield due to injury, on a shitty team. Instead of just filling it internally and remaining a shitty team, they traded a cheap, young player with upside for an older, already-past-his-prime guy who was a former high pick. They stupidly focused on what each player had done in their careers to that point, and failed to identify what was going to happen in the future, while also apparently ignoring the status of their organization (shitty and should have been rebuilding). But, this was the same regime that picked Jobe over Mayer and signed Baez long-term. Remarkable incompetence. Good riddance.

 

[BSHH]

The hits just keep on coming for the Tigers.

Rays can’t believe Tigers traded them Isaac Paredes: ‘F–king idiots’ (from one year ago)


The Rays’ Isaac Paredes might be the best-kept secret in baseball


They had a temporary hole in the outfield due to injury, on a shitty team. Instead of just filling it internally and remaining a shitty team, they traded a cheap, young player with upside for an older, already-past-his-prime guy who was a former high pick. They stupidly focused on what each player had done in their careers to that point, and failed to identify what was going to happen in the future, while also apparently ignoring the status of their organization (shitty and should have been rebuilding). But, this was the same regime that picked Jobe over Mayer and signed Baez long-term. Remarkable incompetence. Good riddance.

To be fair, many thought it was a good trade for the Tigers back then. The Baez-signing wasn't panned either in December 2021, he was unanimously considered a top 20 FA.

Of course, virtually nobody thought drafting Jobe over Mayer would be a good idea. But this might still be the best - since being the least horrible - move of all three.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Hen Kolland]

To be fair, many thought it was a good trade for the Tigers back then. The Baez-signing wasn't panned either in December 2021, he was unanimously considered a top 20 FA.

Of course, virtually nobody thought drafting Jobe over Mayer would be a good idea. But this might still be the best - since being the least horrible - move of all three.

Gruß,
BSHH

There were a lot of people who had doubts about the Javy deal. He’s been the same player his entire career and some people weren’t blind to that fact.

 

[Winger98]

There were a lot of people who had doubts about the Javy deal. He’s been the same player his entire career and some people weren’t blind to that fact.

I would safely say I was one of the people who had doubts about the Javy deal, but if Baez just played up to his career averages it wouldn't be nearly the issue that it has become. His ba/obp are 20 points lower, his slugging is 80 points lower, and he's managed to knock 100 points off his ops.

Maybe what should be taken from Baez is that CoPa isn't built for little guys with inflated power stats and we need to look for a more contact/walk oriented SS.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I would safely say I was one of the people who had doubts about the Javy deal, but if Baez just played up to his career averages it wouldn't be nearly the issue that it has become. His ba/obp are 20 points lower, his slugging is 80 points lower, and he's managed to knock 100 points off his ops.

Maybe what should be taken from Baez is that CoPa isn't built for little guys with inflated power stats and we need to look for a more contact/walk oriented SS.

Have any leads on a Arraez style bat? I have a fixing for a batting champ.

 

[Winger98]

Have any leads on a Arraez style bat? I have a fixing for a batting champ.

give me a few million and I'd at least give it a shot.

 

[Ricelund]

To be fair, many thought it was a good trade for the Tigers back then. The Baez-signing wasn't panned either in December 2021, he was unanimously considered a top 20 FA.

You sure about that?

 

[jaster]

To be fair, many thought it was a good trade for the Tigers back then. The Baez-signing wasn't panned either in December 2021, he was unanimously considered a top 20 FA.

Of course, virtually nobody thought drafting Jobe over Mayer would be a good idea. But this might still be the best - since being the least horrible - move of all three.

Gruß,
BSHH

There were a lot of people who had doubts about the Javy deal. He’s been the same player his entire career and some people weren’t blind to that fact.

I would safely say I was one of the people who had doubts about the Javy deal, but if Baez just played up to his career averages it wouldn't be nearly the issue that it has become. His ba/obp are 20 points lower, his slugging is 80 points lower, and he's managed to knock 100 points off his ops.

Maybe what should be taken from Baez is that CoPa isn't built for little guys with inflated power stats and we need to look for a more contact/walk oriented SS.

On the Paredes-Meadows trade, I was pretty neutral towards it when it happened. Meadows had a pretty good resume at the time, and I was taken by that a little, just like the Tigers and most fans. However, I do recall seeing someone post or tweet or whatever, some advanced stats that showed Meadows was in obvious decline and Paredes had some untapped potential that he may or may not be able to reach. So that made me a little leery. To be fair, we didn't know about Meadows mental troubles at the time. I don't know if the Tigers did. But still, even though I was neutral towards it, I would expect an MLB franchise to dig deeper than they did, or place the correct valuations on the different aspects of such a trade. They failed.

On the Baez signing, I hated it the second it happened, and was plenty vocal about it. I remember a lot of people were. Again, the advanced stats showed Baez was in decline, likely a soon-to-be steep decline, and would very likely not be a good fit at Comerica. That signing was flat-out egregious and it should have been obvious to Detroit. They botched it big time.

Jobe over Mayer was idiotic, again the second it happened. That was cause enough to fire that entire front office on the spot lol.

 

[Winger98]

I hold Avila accountable for the talent evaluations and drafting philosophy. His idea of going big on pitching all of the time is just so damn risky with little margin for error. I don't really blame him for Baez. That still screams ownership to me.

 

[RabidBadger]

I hold Avila accountable for the talent evaluations and drafting philosophy. His idea of going big on pitching all of the time is just so damn risky with little margin for error. I don't really blame him for Baez. That still screams ownership to me.

Yeah, didn't Ilitch proclaim the rebuild was over after signing Baez? Doh!

 

[jaster]

I hold Avila accountable for the talent evaluations and drafting philosophy. His idea of going big on pitching all of the time is just so damn risky with little margin for error. I don't really blame him for Baez. That still screams ownership to me.

I want it to not be ownership because that means the problem still exists lol. But you're probably right.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I want it to not be ownership because that means the problem still exists lol. But you're probably right.

Oh I think it's absolutely ownership. That feels like the "sports ownership" version of store brand shopping. We aren't paying for Lucky Charms when we can buy......El Mago, the Marshmallow Magic Rabbit

 

[raymond23]

Ausar Thompson looked incredible tonight

 

[newfy]

Ausar Thompson looked incredible tonight

He looked like Rodman out there. Bouncing around, blocking shots, at one point got 3 of his own rebounds in a row and has ridiculous amount of energy.

 

[raymond23]

He looked like Rodman out there. Bouncing around, blocking shots, at one point got 3 of his own rebounds in a row and has ridiculous amount of energy.

Really really excited for the Pistons. They have huge upside if these guards can develop shots

 

[izlez]

Thought this Brad Holmes interview was really good

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

I hold Avila accountable for the talent evaluations and drafting philosophy. His idea of going big on pitching all of the time is just so damn risky with little margin for error. I don't really blame him for Baez. That still screams ownership to me.

What Avila did to the Tigers over the course of 7 years was malfeasance lol. I can’t believe the guy never won a trade, never signed a FA that really worked out, almost every draft pick has either busted or not lived up to their potential (yet. Greene has been good and Tork has been playing better). Allowing Avila to conduct the 2022 draft and then firing him later that summer was astoundingly bad.

Thought this Brad Holmes interview was really good

I’m so juiced up for football season. This is the first time in my life the Lions are being operated like a real NFL franchise.

 

[BSHH]

What Avila did to the Tigers over the course of 7 years was malfeasance lol. I can’t believe the guy never won a trade, never signed a FA that really worked out, almost every draft pick has either busted or not lived up to their potential (yet. Greene has been good and Tork has been playing better). Allowing Avila to conduct the 2022 draft and then firing him later that summer was astoundingly bad.


I’m so juiced up for football season. This is the first time in my life the Lions are being operated like a real NFL franchise.

While Avila certainly wasn't a good GM, but your statement is plain wrong: Avila won several trades, which brought the Tigers players like Candelario, Paredes, Lange or Olson. A few FA signings did work out (e.g. Upton, Fiers, Grossman or Schoop before he got his extension). Under Avila players like Skubal, Carpenter or Foley were drafted with late picks; and Manning, even though he has not blossomed into a TOR starter, has been better than those who were picked before the Tigers were up. Avila also managed to find a decent player in Baddoo via the Rule 5 draft. Also, many consider Hinch to be a solid manager and Fetter to be a good pitching coach - both were signed by Avila.

Unless someone is completely lazy, it is fairly easy to point out what Avila's flaws and mistakes were - just give a modicum of effort. There really is no need for hyperbole at all.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Hen Kolland]

While Avila certainly wasn't a good GM, but your statement is plain wrong: Avila won several trades, which brought the Tigers players like Candelario, Paredes, Lange or Olson. A few FA signings did work out (e.g. Upton, Fiers, Grossman or Schoop before he got his extension). Under Avila players like Skubal, Carpenter or Foley were drafted with late picks; and Manning, even though he has not blossomed into a TOR starter, has been better than those who were picked before the Tigers were up. Avila also managed to find a decent player in Baddoo via the Rule 5 draft. Also, many consider Hinch to be a solid manager and Fetter to be a good pitching coach - both were signed by Avila.

Unless someone is completely lazy, it is fairly easy to point out what Avila's flaws and mistakes were - just give a modicum of effort. There really is no need for hyperbole at all.

Gruß,
BSHH

We got Candelario and Paredes for Justin Wilson and Alex Avila. Paredes did nothing in Detroit and was flipped for Meadows who has done nothing in Detroit and likely never will. So essentially Wilson and Avila for Candelario who was a stop gap for a horrible team and had one good year before walking for free.

Lange turned out to be the only thing that we got in return for Nick Castellanos and is a classic hot and cold reliever. They also got Richan who is currently a free agent after being released.

Reese Olson looks promising, and the piece we gave up amounted to very little in Daniel Norris. Speaking of which, Norris was traded to Detroit 5 days before Dombrowski left the organization, so Avila likely had a pretty significant influence over the deal that brought him in. Norris flopped, Labourt flopped, and Boyd had one year under an ERA of 4 for Detroit. Probably can chalk that up as a loss considering Price finished as the Cy Young runner up that year.

JD Martinez was traded and returned Lugo, Alcantera, and King, all of which are not in the MLB while Martinez still is an all star caliber hitter.

Al Avila has not brought in a single impact player to the organization as the GM. Every single trade has resulted in a mediocre MLB player at best. The best thing he has done is the selection of Riley Greene, and odds are he had nothing to do with the actual scouting and identifying of the talent that is Riley's bat.

His successes aren't attributable to him, and the biggest mistakes are directly attributable to him. Hard not hold him responsible for the situation the team is in.