Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Phion Keneuf]

Robertson + Timmins for Drew O’Connor

 

[conFABulator]

Stamkos does a narrower job at a higher level, teams still have to gameplan around his shot on the PP. I don’t think teams really care about the threat Tavares presents overall. He’s more effective at ES sure but not enough that teams will pull some of their focus on our top line to make sure Tavares is contained. You can match up an average contender’s 2nd line against him in a series and be pretty confident you’ll at least break even unless Nylander/Marner is on a hot streak.

I don’t know that Stamkos is worth his contract but if you swapped him and Tavares we’d be more dangerous to deal with as a whole even if there’s a downgrade at ES. I don’t mind him I just don’t think a few points difference at ES at the cost of a very vanilla skillset matters. I’d probably prefer that he pull a Stamkos and become a specialist winger, maybe bulk up a bit and hyperfocus on becoming a pure netfront menace.

Tavares has definitely lost a step and he didn't really have one be could afford to lose. He has continued to produce at a 2C level because he is smart, has good vision and a strong hockey IQ.

The best thing we can do for him and to get the most from him is to make him a 3C that may become a 3LW. He will need accept a next contract that pays him for this role of course and I believe that number is $3M and I could see him accepting this with some term. I really don't think he wants to leave here and thus has very little leverage.

We need to make Willy a C, not try to make him one. Just out him there and let him do the job. Our team looks a lot different with JT on the third line and less PP1 time. He will score less but the balance of our attack will benefit from this. He will benefit from the match ups as well. If not him, then Willy...whatever becomes our "third line"

Robertson Matthews Domi
Knies Nylander McMann
Cowan Tavares Marner

Make a fourth line from Kampf, Jarnkrok, Holmberg, Dewar and Reaves. Maybe Minten, maybe Grebyonkin. If we end up moving Robertson or if Cowan doesn't stick then we shuffle one of these guys up in the line up. I would like to see what Nick can do with the opportunity. We either develop a scorer, increase his value or find once a for all he is not in our plans.

That too nine will score. I don't care if individual numbers are down. We need to develop depth and balance.

 

[Fogelhund]

Stamkos does a narrower job at a higher level, teams still have to gameplan around his shot on the PP. I don’t think teams really care about the threat Tavares presents overall. He’s more effective at ES sure but not enough that teams will pull some of their focus on our top line to make sure Tavares is contained. You can match up an average contender’s 2nd line against him in a series and be pretty confident you’ll at least break even unless Nylander/Marner is on a hot streak.

I don’t know that Stamkos is worth his contract but if you swapped him and Tavares we’d be more dangerous to deal with as a whole even if there’s a downgrade at ES. I don’t mind him I just don’t think a few points difference at ES at the cost of a very vanilla skillset matters. I’d probably prefer that he pull a Stamkos and become a specialist winger, maybe bulk up a bit and hyperfocus on becoming a pure netfront menace.

Yes, it's close to break even with Tavares and the opponent on the 2nd line. Stamkos was what... a -26 last year in the regular season and playoffs combined? That isn't breaking even, nor even close... that's getting destroyed.

This year, Stamkos won't have the benefit of having Kucherov feeding him the puck, and it will show. Forsberg is one heck of a hockey player, but not on Kucherov's level IMO. Maybe better defensively though, which might help Stamkos 5v5 somewhat... but expect Stamkos production to drop significantly this year. Tavares will probably match last years production, depending on Berube.

 

[Fogelhund]

Tavares has definitely lost a step and he didn't really have one be could afford to lose. He has continued to produce at a 2C level because he is smart, has good vision and a strong hockey IQ.

The best thing we can do for him and to get the most from him is to make him a 3C that may become a 3LW. He will need accept a next contract that pays him for this role of course and I believe that number is $3M and I could see him accepting this with some term. I really don't think he wants to leave here and thus has very little leverage.

We need to make Willy a C, not try to make him one. Just out him there and let him do the job. Our team looks a lot different with JT on the third line and less PP1 time. He will score less but the balance of our attack will benefit from this. He will benefit from the match ups as well. If not him, then Willy...whatever becomes our "third line"

Robertson Matthews Domi
Knies Nylander McMann
Cowan Tavares Marner

Make a fourth line from Kampf, Jarnkrok, Holmberg, Dewar and Reaves. Maybe Minten, maybe Grebyonkin. If we end up moving Robertson or if Cowan doesn't stick then we shuffle one of these guys up in the line up. I would like to see what Nick can do with the opportunity. We either develop a scorer, increase his value or find once a for all he is not in our plans.

That too nine will score. I don't care if individual numbers are down. We need to develop depth and balance.

Personally... I would have moved Marner to Seattle for Wright + 2024 1st round pick. Wright will be a decent 2C in this league, and could have slotted in as the 3C to start the year, and at some point... whether that's this year, or next, they could swap. Clearly that didn't happen, so here we are.

Maybe they have no option than to try Nylander at 2C at some point. He's dynamic enough, and can skate well enough to do it... and at his pay, we really need something more out of him. The challenge of course will be on the defensive end of the rink. Can he raise his defensive game enough to be effective at C??

 

[conFABulator]

Personally... I would have moved Marner to Seattle for Wright + 2024 1st round pick. Wright will be a decent 2C in this league, and could have slotted in as the 3C to start the year, and at some point... whether that's this year, or next, they could swap. Clearly that didn't happen, so here we are.

Maybe they have no option than to try Nylander at 2C at some point. He's dynamic enough, and can skate well enough to do it... and at his pay, we really need something more out of him. The challenge of course will be on the defensive end of the rink. Can he raise his defensive game enough to be effective at C??

I agree with all of this. I really wanted Marner for Wright + a 1st or Larsson or Oleksiak. The cap space savings would have covered Roy or Tanev (or both). I am still hopeful that Marner can be moved this month, but really is just hope. Is Necas and Nikishin too much to ask for? Could Sergachev get moved twice in one off-season?

As for Nylander; yep defensive questiona. I wonder about supporting him with defensive wingers to start?

Knies Matthews Domi
Jarnkrok Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann

...something like that. Holmberg is an option too. This sort of configuration would be a matchup nightmare and Tavares would for sure fave third lines all year.

Who is our 2C if not Willy? Who can score like that, have a strong defensive game and be affordable?

 

[Fogelhund]

I agree with all of this. I really wanted Marner for Wright + a 1st or Larsson or Oleksiak. The cap space savings would have covered Roy or Tanev (or both). I am still hopeful that Marner can be moved this month, but really is just hope. Is Necas and Nikishin too much to ask for? Could Sergachev get moved twice in one off-season?

As for Nylander; yep defensive questiona. I wonder about supporting him with defensive wingers to start?

Knies Matthews Domi
Jarnkrok Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann

...something like that. Holmberg is an option too. This sort of configuration would be a matchup nightmare and Tavares would for sure fave third lines all year.

Who is our 2C if not Willy? Who can score like that, have a strong defensive game and be affordable?

I don't see Carolina being interested in paying Marner the type of money he'll command, so I don't think he's a target for them.

Seattle is pretty much the only team that I see out there, who could still pull off a trade for Marner right now. It would have to be Wright + Bjorkstrand as the basis (I'd hope we'd get a little more back, maybe a 2025 first?). Bjork comes back, as we need a RW, and they'd need to move him to make cap room for Marner. Do I think this would happen... not at this point, but it is feasible to be done by both teams. I think we are a weaker team this year with this trade, and I'm not sure how to address that... but if we absolutely wanted to move off Marner, this does help long-term.

 

[SprDaVE]

Robertson + Timmins for Drew O’Connor

Pittsburgh is a great fit for Robertson and Timmins could be ok, his skillset seems redundant... but they lack RHD and depth. I really think something could work there. They have very little appealing assets though.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Leafs trade Marner, Liljegren
Philadelphia trades Konecny, Frost, Drysdale

Leafs trade Tavares, Minten, Robertson, 1st (2026), 1st (2027)

Columbus trades Gaudreau, Werenski*
*Werenski retained 50%

Gaudreau(9.75)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Frost(2)/Konecny(5.5)
Jarnkrok(2)/Domi(3.75)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)

Werenskj(4.25)/Tanev(4.5)
Rielly(7.5)/Drysdale(2.5)
OEL(3.5)/McCabe(2)
*Hakanpaa(1.5), Benoit(1)

Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)

Total = 86.6 (1.4 remaining)

 

[Nineteen67]

There’s nothing in that video that comes even close to approaching a reason why someone would sign there

Your eyes are closed. I see it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Pittsburgh is a great fit for Robertson and Timmins could be ok, his skillset seems redundant... but they lack RHD and depth. I really think something could work there. They have very little appealing assets though.

Drew O'Connor did PK in Pittsburgh and could probably play in our top 6 or 9 at a cheap price on LW.

I'd probably ask for O'Connor and maybe a 6th to fill in that draft slot we're missing.

 

[SprDaVE]

Drew O'Connor did PK in Pittsburgh and could probably play in our top 6 or 9 at a cheap price on LW.

I'd probably ask for O'Connor and maybe a 6th to fill in that draft slot we're missing.

I proposed that a week or so go ago since O'Connor is a pending UFA and fits a lot of what we need. He did well playing next to Crosby. Robertson has a lot more potential and value for a team that needs younger options -- plus the Dubas connection, so it could make sense... but I think Pittsburgh would look at adding to the team and they probably value O'Connor a lot for the reasons mentioned.

 

[Al14]

Leafs trade Marner, Liljegren
Philadelphia trades Konecny, Frost, Drysdale

Leafs trade Tavares, Minten, Robertson, 1st (2026), 1st (2027)

Columbus trades Gaudreau, Werenski*
*Werenski retained 50%

Gaudreau(9.75)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Frost(2)/Konecny(5.5)
Jarnkrok(2)/Domi(3.75)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)

Werenskj(4.25)/Tanev(4.5)
Rielly(7.5)/Drysdale(2.5)
OEL(3.5)/McCabe(2)
*Hakanpaa(1.5), Benoit(1)

Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)

Total = 86.6 (1.4 remaining)

I like the idea of obtaining Konecny and Frost. I'm not sure about Drysdale after his surgery.

Gaudreau would be hard no from me, although I think Werenski might be okay.

Having said the above, these suggested trades are laughable IMHO.

These kinds of suggested trades are worthy of having a 'shock' button to give the posters a low grade shock for posting them.

And yes, I often post 'shock' worthy crap myself, especially when I'm angry and frustrated with our Leafs. However, I sure as hell don't post ridiculous trade suggestions.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I like the idea of obtaining Konecny and Frost. I'm not sure about Drysdale after his surgery.

Gaudreau would be hard no from me, although I think Werenski might be okay.

Having said the above, these suggested trades are laughable IMHO.

These kinds of suggested trades are worthy of having a 'shock' button to give the posters a low grade shock for posting them.

And yes, I often post 'shock' worthy crap myself, especially when I'm angry and frustrated with our Leafs. However, I sure as hell don't post ridiculous trade suggestions.

I think people are ready to turn the page on the roster, or at least parts of it.

No sense in continually bringing back Matthews, 88, Marner and JT, the mix can't/won't win, it's not a sample size at this point.

If Marner won't waive, the soonest you can change over the roster will be the following off-season but it sucks for a multitude of reasons.

• Matthews will have 3 years left on his deal

• Tanev will be a year older, you maybe have 1-2 years before he's off to LTIR

• 2C is a big hole and arguably we will need 2 or 3 centres - 2C for sure, have to see if Minten graduates and probably need to do better than Kampf at 2.4M for 4C

 

[Captain34]

Pittsburgh is a great fit for Robertson and Timmins could be ok, his skillset seems redundant... but they lack RHD and depth. I really think something could work there. They have very little appealing assets though.

Dubas clearly sees something in Timmins that not many other GMs do, trading for him and then giving him that one-way, 2 year contract contract, despite Timmins not having established himself as an every-day NHLer just yet. He can have him.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think people are ready to turn the page on the roster, or at least parts of it.

No sense in continually bringing back Matthews, 88, Marner and JT, the mix can't/won't win, it's not a sample size at this point.

If Marner won't waive, the soonest you can change over the roster will be the following off-season but it sucks for a multitude of reasons.

• Matthews will have 3 years left on his deal

• Tanev will be a year older, you maybe have 1-2 years before he's off to LTIR

• 2C is a big hole and arguably we will need 2 or 3 centres - 2C for sure, have to see if Minten graduates and probably need to do better than Kampf at 2.4M for 4C

The challenge isn't that Marner might not waive, as much as it appears they just don't want to move him. It appears to me, that Berube wants a chance to coach this group, and get a different outcome.

I agree with you on continually trying to do the same thing, and expecting different results though. Maybe Berube can get something out of them Keefe couldn't, but it has to be a certainty that if we get the same result again, with different coaching, and more focus on D... that the changes you suggest, and many others have suggested will be necessary.

As far as a future 2C... we have a problem there. You look through next years UFA group, and there isn't much there that isn't well into their 30's... or guys who will likely be 3C's on their own teams this year. Despite his decline, Tavares could be one of the bigger name UFA's, to rank in top 64 of C points this coming year.... and ya... that isn't great. We also lack currency to trade for a legit 2C... except for Marner, and that ship appears to be sailing. Even if Minten graduates, he's not much more than a 4C in production the first year... so do we make Domi one of our C's... or move Nylander there?

 

[WTFMAN99]

The challenge isn't that Marner might not waive, as much as it appears they just don't want to move him. It appears to me, that Berube wants a chance to coach this group, and get a different outcome.

I agree with you on continually trying to do the same thing, and expecting different results though. Maybe Berube can get something out of them Keefe couldn't, but it has to be a certainty that if we get the same result again, with different coaching, and more focus on D... that the changes you suggest, and many others have suggested will be necessary.

As far as a future 2C... we have a problem there. You look through next years UFA group, and there isn't much there that isn't well into their 30's... or guys who will likely be 3C's on their own teams this year. Despite his decline, Tavares could be one of the bigger name UFA's, to rank in top 64 of C points this coming year.... and ya... that isn't great. We also lack currency to trade for a legit 2C... except for Marner, and that ship appears to be sailing. Even if Minten graduates, he's not much more than a 4C in production the first year... so do we make Domi one of our C's... or move Nylander there?

Domi would be like plan C or D for me

I was hoping to get Karlsson in a Marner trade to solve 2C but that's not likely

Minten at best is going to end up at our 3C but if he does a year with the Marlies, he will be ready to break in at 4C

The only other thing I can think of is trying to acquire someone with 2 years that can play 2C at the deadline if we're looking like a playoff team but have to see how the year breaks out.

I still say look at a guy like Granlund in SJS - someone I trust said there was quite a bit of smoke there this summer but I think the cap situation basically crushed that.

 

[Fogelhund]

Domi would be like plan C or D for me

I was hoping to get Karlsson in a Marner trade to solve 2C but that's not likely

Minten at best is going to end up at our 3C but if he does a year with the Marlies, he will be ready to break in at 4C

The only other thing I can think of is trying to acquire someone with 2 years that can play 2C at the deadline if we're looking like a playoff team but have to see how the year breaks out.

I still say look at a guy like Granlund in SJS - someone I trust said there was quite a bit of smoke there this summer but I think the cap situation basically crushed that.

The problem with obtaining Granlund, is he's a UFA, and then we can't afford to resign him in all probability... unless Marner walks... and I don't think subtracting Marner and adding Granlund is a recipe for success. Also, we have no 1st in 2025 to trade for him, and others will out bid us.

I still maintain that we should have done a mini-retool this offseason... Moving Marner for a future 2C in Wright, and #8 OA, which could have net us Catton (C), Parekh (RD), DIckinson (LD).. while giving us the cap room to improve the D even more would have been the right move. I think we had a missed opportunity to rebuild our young players, and cap structure this offseason... maybe such a deal wasn't available, maybe Marner wouldn't waive... who knows, but to me this was a missed opportunity to fix culture, cap structure and the way this team is structured.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The problem with obtaining Granlund, is he's a UFA, and then we can't afford to resign him in all probability... unless Marner walks... and I don't think subtracting Marner and adding Granlund is a recipe for success. Also, we have no 1st in 2025 to trade for him, and others will out bid us.

I still maintain that we should have done a mini-retool this offseason... Moving Marner for a future 2C in Wright, and #8 OA, which could have net us Catton (C), Parekh (RD), DIckinson (LD).. while giving us the cap room to improve the D even more would have been the right move. I think we had a missed opportunity to rebuild our young players, and cap structure this offseason... maybe such a deal wasn't available, maybe Marner wouldn't waive... who knows, but to me this was a missed opportunity to fix culture, cap structure and the way this team is structured.

I strongly believe that in the background that Marner dug in with the NMC.

It's his contractual right but it may set the team back or kill the window.

RE: Granlund, not sure his value is a 1st but maybe he's a viable option next summer as a UFA, you'd likely need the right wingers around him though.

 

[conFABulator]

I don't see Carolina being interested in paying Marner the type of money he'll command, so I don't think he's a target for them.

Seattle is pretty much the only team that I see out there, who could still pull off a trade for Marner right now. It would have to be Wright + Bjorkstrand as the basis (I'd hope we'd get a little more back, maybe a 2025 first?). Bjork comes back, as we need a RW, and they'd need to move him to make cap room for Marner. Do I think this would happen... not at this point, but it is feasible to be done by both teams. I think we are a weaker team this year with this trade, and I'm not sure how to address that... but if we absolutely wanted to move off Marner, this does help long-term.

I know Carolina doesn't do deals like the one Marner would command. Things change though. New GM there and a track record of playoff underperforming that rivals the Leafs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I know Carolina doesn't do deals like the one Marner would command. Things change though. New GM there and a track record of playoff underperforming that rivals the Leafs.

I'd be more disappointed as a Canes fan for sure, unlike the Leafs, I felt like outside of the goaltending position they generally had a roster set for a deeper run or even a cup shot.

I'd have legit optimism for a roster like theirs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Stamkos does a narrower job at a higher level, teams still have to gameplan around his shot on the PP. I don’t think teams really care about the threat Tavares presents overall. He’s more effective at ES sure but not enough that teams will pull some of their focus on our top line to make sure Tavares is contained. You can match up an average contender’s 2nd line against him in a series and be pretty confident you’ll at least break even unless Nylander/Marner is on a hot streak.

I don’t know that Stamkos is worth his contract but if you swapped him and Tavares we’d be more dangerous to deal with as a whole even if there’s a downgrade at ES. I don’t mind him I just don’t think a few points difference at ES at the cost of a very vanilla skillset matters. I’d probably prefer that he pull a Stamkos and become a specialist winger, maybe bulk up a bit and hyperfocus on becoming a pure netfront menace.

Boston did that in these playoffs - double teamed Matthews and Nylander (when they played) and pretty much ignored both JT and Mitch until they got the puck, at which point someone would go and take it away.

 

[ACC1224]

I strongly believe that in the background that Marner dug in with the NMC.

It's his contractual right but it may set the team back or kill the window.

RE: Granlund, not sure his value is a 1st but maybe he's a viable option next summer as a UFA, you'd likely need the right wingers around him though.

That would have come out if that occurred. You'd be surprised how many Teams were interested, I was a little shocked.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That would have come out if that occurred. You'd be surprised how many Teams were interested, I was a little shocked.

It's come out a bit.

I guess he didn't like Utah.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's come out a bit.

I guess he didn't like Utah.

Is there anything to backup that he didn't waive for Utah?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yes, it's close to break even with Tavares and the opponent on the 2nd line. Stamkos was what... a -26 last year in the regular season and playoffs combined? That isn't breaking even, nor even close... that's getting destroyed.

This year, Stamkos won't have the benefit of having Kucherov feeding him the puck, and it will show. Forsberg is one heck of a hockey player, but not on Kucherov's level IMO. Maybe better defensively though, which might help Stamkos 5v5 somewhat... but expect Stamkos production to drop significantly this year. Tavares will probably match last years production, depending on Berube.

Tavares was helped a lot by playing mainly with a guy who put up the 13th most ES points last year.