OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Further to this point- DJ is a guy you "add" to a team to take them over the top in the passing game.
DJ isn't a guy you "build around".

Exactly.

DJ is an avg #1 and an above avg #2.

Again he’s like Jeff Graham, a slow possession receiver.

You can’t build your passing game around guys like this and the proof is in the last 4 years.

Graham did well when he left the Steelers and played as the #2 behind Curtis Conway.

DJ would never accept that role in Pgh, and would cause even more massive issues in the locker room.

 

[MrBrightside]

You don't have to exclusively run 2 TE sets, ya know?

Tell Smith that. He runs 2 TE sets the most of any OC in the league and no one is close. I get it. You want to play 1947 football with 7 OL and a WR blocking and run 50x a game.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

So you're going to have 2 TE's most of the time and have one of your WR in the slot? Match made in heaven? What? That's unworkable. You can't have 3 guys running routes inside the numbers.

But that's the Arthur Smith offense, and it's based off of PA. SF and Detroit run similar concepts. Hell KC runs that formation a ton too (helps to have the best TE in the game).

So while the routes will likely emerge from inside the numbers, the idea is to flood the zones inside and outside the hashes and the QB chooses the open receiver.

It's a proven offense in the modern NFL. Whether the team has the personnel to execute it remains to be seen

 

[pistolpete11]

Tell Smith that. He runs 2 TE sets the most of any OC in the league and no one is close. I get it. You want to play 1947 football with 7 OL and a WR blocking and run 50x a game.

I'm not saying what I want. I'm saying what makes sense for the roster that they have built and the OC they just hired.

 

[JTG]

Another Center I’m keeping my eye on if JPJ and Frazier become too expensive: Sedrick Van Pran-Granger out of Georgia. Comes from a zone scheme and has some inside versatility to move to guard if necessary.

Could get him in the 3rd round.

I'm not a big fan of his. Can't deny he has had a strong college career. Kendrick Green vibes to me. He was really helped by a good line in general.

I'm honestly not a fan of the free agents either. Dude from Tennessee is good, but it'd be nice to have a tone setter for the offensive line and I think JPJ or Frazier are those guys.

Pickens, Claypool, JuJu, and even DJ himself all stepped into starting roles as rookies and had success even though they were drafted in the 2nd round or later. I don't understand why Pickens + rookie + Boyd or some other FA signing isn't reasonable

As @Buddy Bizarre said, Smith's offense doesn't really rely on WR beyond the top 2 much anyway so anything beyond the top 2 or 3 guys is a luxury, not a necessity.

I'm expecting them to use Muth more, but also Washington and Heyward.

Washington really needs to pack on some lbs and just move to tackle. He looks like a man on stilts trying to juke. It's hilarious.

This team has a lot of needs. Everyone in the trade DJ camp essentially argues that he can be replaced with a 2nd round pick or a UFA, but this team has a lot of holes and every premium draft pick or free agency signing takes away from actual pressing needs like CB, C, LT, ILB, S, and DL. You're essentially creating a hole just to fill it for asset management reasons and there's both little chance that the replacement will be as good (at least in 2024) as Johnson and there's an opportunity cost that comes with it.

I think most people are saying that DJ is going to potentially walk next season anyway so why not get something for him. If he has the opportunity to play for a team that has an elite QB, he's going to leave...I don't care how much he says he likes Pittsburgh. His career depends on getting away from this, specifically because I don't think he and Kenny have looked good together whatsoever.

Pickens is more than ready enough for #1 volume. Austin was actually an outside guy in college, and maybe they use him on the outside in Smith's offense to use play action and get him open in space for quick reads for Kenny. If they can get Austin in space, he's incredible.

 

[MrBrightside]

But that's the Arthur Smith offense, and it's based off of PA. SF and Detroit run similar concepts. Hell KC runs that formation a ton too (helps to have the best TE in the game).

So while the routes will likely emerge from inside the numbers, the idea is to flood the zones inside and outside the hashes and the QB chooses the open receiver.

It's a proven offense in the modern NFL. Whether the team has the personnel to execute it remains to be seen

Well that offense was 25th in the NFL in scoring despite playing in a dome and a bad division and with superior personnel at most skill spots than what he has this year. I'm excited.

 

[Pens1566]

There's also the phenomenon of teams thinking they can always get more out of an asset than the previous team did/has. DJ would be a great example of this with team's thinking he's limited by KP the last few years.

Again, we're not gonna lose much (if any at all) by launching him into orbit for a 2nd. He's not a difference maker here.

 

[MrBrightside]

So for those arguing the Steelers should trade Johnson because he's a UFA after 2024, should they not also trade Harris, Friermuth, Daniels, Cam, and others heading into their UFA year? Wouldn't you want to maximize those assets too if that's the objective?

 

[Pens1566]

So for those arguing the Steelers should trade Johnson because he's a UFA after 2024, should they not also trade Harris, Friermuth, Daniels, Cam, and others heading into their UFA year? Wouldn't you want to maximize those assets too if that's the objective?

I'm not sure any of those have the warts that DJ does, so "no".

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm not sure any of those have the warts that DJ does, so "no".

Meh. You put all of them on the open market and Johnson gets the most in return and it's not close.

 

[Pens1566]

Meh. You put all of them on the open market and Johnson gets the most in return and it's not close.

Ok, I guess?

 

[Empoleon8771]

So for those arguing the Steelers should trade Johnson because he's a UFA after 2024, should they not also trade Harris, Friermuth, Daniels, Cam, and others heading into their UFA year? Wouldn't you want to maximize those assets too if that's the objective?

You're focusing on one of the three reasons to trade DJ.

It's all of that he's up there in age for WRs, he's a free agent after next year and he doesn't fit the style of play of the new team. It's not just "he's a free agent after next year".

And if we want to go down that road, I think there is a very legitimate argument to trading Harris before his fifth year option. He's going to be 28 in his first year of an extension and RBs tend to fall off a cliff in their late 20s/early 30s. If someone would give up notable value for Harris before the 2025 season, I'd absolutely trade him.

 

[Peat]

So for those arguing the Steelers should trade Johnson because he's a UFA after 2024, should they not also trade Harris, Friermuth, Daniels, Cam, and others heading into their UFA year? Wouldn't you want to maximize those assets too if that's the objective?

No, because they all fit what the team is doing and will likely be extended (except maybe for Cam who's in a different bucket altogether).

 

[MrBrightside]

Ok, I guess?

Well good point. It would be very in keeping with the commitment to mediocrity of this organization to dump the most valuable impending UFA while re-signing guys who are less valuable. All in furtherance of winning a bunch of games 16-13 in the Tomlin/Smith way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No, because they all fit what the team is doing and will likely be extended (except maybe for Cam who's in a different bucket altogether).

I probably wouldn't want to extend Harris either, but yeah.

 

[MrBrightside]

You're focusing on one of the three reasons to trade DJ.

It's all of that he's up there in age for WRs, he's a free agent after next year and he doesn't fit the style of play of the new team. It's not just "he's a free agent after next year".

And if we want to go down that road, I think there is a very legitimate argument to trading Harris before his fifth year option. He's going to be 28 in his first year of an extension and RBs tend to fall off a cliff in their late 20s/early 30s. If someone would give up notable value for Harris before the 2025 season, I'd absolutely trade him.

They absolutely should trade Harris if someone will give you something for him. I just doubt there's a market for the reasons you suggest.

 

[Pens1566]

Well good point. It would be very in keeping with the commitment to mediocrity of this organization to dump the most valuable impending UFA while re-signing guys who are less valuable. All in furtherance of winning a bunch of games 16-13 in the Tomlin/Smith way.

I mean, it was kind of a nonsense idea ...

RBs are a dime a dozen and don't typically return much unless they're a stud all pro.
TEs uh ...
IOL double uh ...
And a ready to retire DL with a huge cap hit.

Yep, all entirely the same circumstances as DJ.

 

[xlm34]

And that's what Boyd would be here assuming they draft an outside WR. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

Because Johnson is a proven commodity that would work better in a different offense. The Steelers are taking on risk of a draft pick not working out, but it's a risk I'd be willing to take for all the reasons that have been stated.


A WR can both get open and block. This is not a novel concept.

...well except for DJ, of course.

But let’s say Boyd costs the 10 million that you save from DJ, why is he being signed when an Arthur Smith offense uses a slot receiver only 30% of the time? I can get the arguments for trading DJ, but I don’t get the idea of using every asset gained in a potential trade on the receiving room.

To me if you trade DJ, you then draft a WR relatively early, sign a cheap ish WR in FA (like Noah Brown or Reynolds) and then use whatever is left from the 10 million to make a more lucrative offer to someone like Sneed if they hit FA.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And on the value of WRs, Higgins is a similarly talented WR who would bring back a similar return. Johnson's value would be less because he's older, but not by a crazy amount.

 

[pistolpete11]

You're focusing on one of the three reasons to trade DJ.

It's all of that he's up there in age for WRs, he's a free agent after next year and he doesn't fit the style of play of the new team. It's not just "he's a free agent after next year".

And if we want to go down that road, I think there is a very legitimate argument to trading Harris before his fifth year option. He's going to be 28 in his first year of an extension and RBs tend to fall off a cliff in their late 20s/early 30s. If someone would give up notable value for Harris before the 2025 season, I'd absolutely trade him.

Exactly. And I'd add that he would bring back value that makes it worth it.

If all they could get for DJ was a 5th round pick or something, I'd be against the idea of trading him. Anything lower than a 2nd, really.

 

[MrBrightside]

But let’s say Boyd costs the 10 million that you save from DJ, why is he being signed when an Arthur Smith offense uses a slot receiver only 30% of the time? I can get the arguments for trading DJ, but I don’t get the idea of using every asset gained in a potential trade on the receiving room.

To me if you trade DJ, you then draft a WR relatively early, sign a cheap ish WR in FA (like Noah Brown or Reynolds) and then use whatever is left from the 10 million to make a more lucrative offer to someone like Sneed if they hit FA.

If they were to move on from Johnson this is correct. Tyler Boyd, other than being a local guy, is a terrible fit to replace him. I'm not sure Brown or Reynolds would be "cheapish" but both would be better replacements for Johnson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They absolutely should trade Harris if someone will give you something for him. I just doubt there's a market for the reasons you suggest.

Yeah they should just let Harris play through his 5th year option and then let him walk in free agency. Especially considering Harris' play style, he's primed to fall off a cliff as he gets older.

Now if someone would give up like a 2nd or 3rd for Harris before his 5th year, then you trade him without any hesitation. I don't know why anyone would do that, though.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So for those arguing the Steelers should trade Johnson because he's a UFA after 2024, should they not also trade Harris, Friermuth, Daniels, Cam, and others heading into their UFA year? Wouldn't you want to maximize those assets too if that's the objective?

Here i am thinking the offensive core was DJ GP daniels muth najaee all getting extended this summer. DJ has blocked in the past. He can be the Ayuk of this offense. He can be the saint brown and smith of this offense. Dj will love the play action deep shots in this offense

 

[Peat]

I probably wouldn't want to extend Harris either, but yeah.

Brace yourself for the multi-year extension is all I can say can't say I love the idea but I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't at least pick up the 5th year at this point.

 

[MrBrightside]

And on the value of WRs, Higgins is a similarly talented WR who would bring back a similar return. Johnson's value would be less because he's older, but not by a crazy amount.

Exactly. And I'd add that he would bring back value that makes it worth it.

If all they could get for DJ was a 5th round pick or something, I'd be against the idea of trading him. Anything lower than a 2nd, really.

If Higgins is a late 1st or 2nd there's no chance they'd get a 2nd for Johnson. Higgins is younger, bigger, and far more valuable than Johnson.