OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[xlm34]

In regards to Mims, there’s a difference between not playing a lot of games and being raw. By most accounts, Mims is a guy that would be ready to play week 1. From what I’ve read he’s a more pro ready prospect than Broderick Jones was.

 

[Andy99]

In regards to Mims, there’s a difference between not playing a lot of games and being raw. By most accounts, Mims is a guy that would be ready to play week 1. From what I’ve read he’s a more pro ready prospect than Broderick Jones was.

If he’s ready to play and has tremendous upside/best talent according to many draft guys, why isn’t he ranked higher on the list of tackles, such that he’s clearly being available at #20 on every mock draft and in fact going later in the first than the Steelers in a majority of them?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is also how I want the draft to shake out. Then grab a Receiver in the third. Grabbing an OT like Mims and one of JPJ, Frazier, or Barton makes for the beginning of a heck of a front line.

Like you said about Mims, we had a family friend who ran a football training camp for a lot of D1 guys, including our old friend JuJu, and he always said “the one thing I can’t teach a kid is size”

We are definitely on the same wave length.

Rebuild the O-line and the next QB they draft can come into a really nice situation.

Also with you on finding a WR in the third.

I'm fine with this plan if it's Frazier. I remain unsold on Barton but I'm just a dude on a message board. It just concerns me that it almost certainly requires a trade-up. I know they happen and I'm not opposed to combining assets for it, just that the uncertainty of it, requiring a partner who has what you want and wants what you have.

I just feel like you need JPJ or Frazier out of this draft. I know the discussion around first-round value at T vs C and whatnot, but if you're getting a ready-made player who improves your team... anyway.

Tall centers like Barton can be worrisome with pad level and leverage, so I get the concern, but we’ll see.

I’m not opposed to JPJ at 20, but it’s much like RBs where you can get better value there likely and find a starter in round 2 or 3.

Again, history last ten years shows it’s hard to get real value out of center in round one.

I do realize they left a gaping hole at center, but drafting out of desperation rarely works.

 

[xlm34]

If he’s ready to play and has tremendous upside/best talent according to many draft guys, why isn’t he ranked higher on the list of tackles, such that he’s clearly being available at #20 on every mock draft and in fact going later in the first than the Steelers in a majority of them?

Because it’s an absurd tackle class — probably one of the best in recent memory. Being the 6th or whatever best Tackle in this draft isn’t anything to turn your nose up at.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Because it’s an absurd tackle class — probably one of the best in recent memory. Being the 6th or whatever best Tackle in this draft isn’t anything to turn your nose up at.

Yeah it’s more about there being quite a few Day 1 OT’s in this draft who have games and raw ability that rank them ahead of Mims and less about Mims not being ready.

It’s a stacked OT class and there are some solid centers too which we need both of.

You need to find a dance partner, but I have to imagine Kahn is willing to trade up in the 2nd round to grab which ever center is their at the top of day 2

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Tall centers like Barton can be worrisome with pad level and leverage, so I get the concern, but we’ll see.

I’m not opposed to JPJ at 20, but it’s much like RBs where you can get better value there likely and find a starter in round 2 or 3.

Again, history last ten years shows it’s hard to get real value out of center in round one.

I do realize they left a gaping hole at center, but drafting out of desperation rarely works.

Desperation is bad but mostly if it causes you to reach. Again, I understand the question about first-round value, but if a guy is plus-and-play and he makes your team better is it a reach just because it's also a position of (apparently) dire need?

It's possible I'm paying more attention to JPJ and Frazier than normal because of that need, but both seem like starters and keepers to me. That sounds like good value.

I see there's a potential path to a tackle at 20 and Frazier via a trade-up, it just comes with some anxiety because I like Frazier and we probably need to come out of the draft with a center.

In the end I feel a lot of folks are of a similar mind, just with subtle differences.

 

[Andy99]

Because it’s an absurd tackle class — probably one of the best in recent memory. Being the 6th or whatever best Tackle in this draft isn’t anything to turn your nose up at.

Didn’t say it was…just asking if it’s better to take the 4th or 5th best WR, or CB, at #20, in an also incredibly deep draft class for those positions, than the sixth best tackle, when you have 2 developmental projects and a starter (who team claims to like but is below average) already on the roster?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Desperation is bad but mostly if it causes you to reach. Again, I understand the question about first-round value, but if a guy is plus-and-play and he makes your team better is it a reach just because it's also a position of (apparently) dire need?

It's possible I'm paying more attention to JPJ and Frazier than normal because of that need, but both seem like starters and keepers to me. That sounds like good value.

I see there's a potential path to a tackle at 20 and Frazier via a trade-up, it just comes with some anxiety because I like Frazier and we probably need to come out of the draft with a center.

In the end I feel a lot of folks are of a similar mind, just with subtle differences.

I believe Dallas is hard up for a C, but not sure who else.

I suspect JPJ is gone by 24 to Dallas.

So a trade back isn’t really in the cards if they want to move back and take JPJ at 28, 29 etc.

Steelers basically have to prioritize best available at 20 and if they feel that’s JPJ, I’ll be ok with it.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

I believe Dallas is hard up for a C, but not sure who else.

I suspect JPJ is gone by 24 to Dallas.

So a trade back isn’t really in the cards if they want to move back and take JPJ at 28, 29 etc.

Steelers basically have to prioritize best available at 20 and if they feel that’s JPJ, I’ll be ok with it.

It’s also possible that one of the OT’s slated to go earlier falls back to #20 as shakeups happen every draft.

At the end of the day I’m with you that ideally the Steelers have pick #20 and pull something in the #32-#36 range via trade to grab an OT and Center.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s also possible that one of the OT’s slated to go earlier falls back to #20 as shakeups happen every draft.

At the end of the day I’m with you that ideally the Steelers have pick #20 and pull something in the #32-#36 range via trade to grab an OT and Center.

If they take a corner or WR, I’ll be fine with that to.

I just see an ideal chance to rebuild their line with the first two picks.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I believe Dallas is hard up for a C, but not sure who else.

I suspect JPJ is gone by 24 to Dallas.

So a trade back isn’t really in the cards if they want to move back and take JPJ at 28, 29 etc.

Steelers basically have to prioritize best available at 20 and if they feel that’s JPJ, I’ll be ok with it.

It’s Miami you have to worry about they lost Williams in FA. Ideally you trade with Philly who wants a cb but Miami is 21.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

Not arguing they shouldn’t draft JPJ at #20 I’d be totally fine with it, would just like to see then move up and grab the best OT in the first few picks of the second.

That said if they grab DJ or a blue chip WR/CB in the second I’m fine with that as well.

My personal preference is walking out of the first two days of the draft with a Center and an OT the likes of a JPJ/Barton/Frazier and a Mims/Fuaga. OL are boring picks but with Broderick Jones and the potential of this draft the Steelers could have a damn strong Offensive Line really soon

 

[Peat]

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

This is a fair point but they've backed themselves into a corner and right now. the plug and play answers to that corner look like they're going before the Steelers 2nd round pick.

They're going to have to do something expensive if they don't just punt it on Herbig or whatever other vet they can find, the question is what.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

I think its the trade back pick up a 3rd and 5th use that 5th to trade up in the 2nd I like. You typically draft the expensive positions in round 1. Cb ot to me cost more in fa than a c

 

[ImporterExporter]

There is zero chance Frazier falls to 51. You either take JPJ in round 1 or you have to trade up to ensure Frazier is on the roster in round 2.

If you swing and miss on those guys, I don't see another plug and play C in this draft. I do like the kid out of Arkansas, Beaux Limmer but not sure he's a day 1 starter.

 

[Ulf5]

I hope the Steelers move down about 10 spots and pick up an extra second…I don’t think picking up a tackle project at #20 is a good move….certainly not urgent…move down and pick up some really good players at center, WR, CB, Dline…what was the point of keeping and developing Cook and Anderson at tackle last season? Sure, if a tremendous plug and play RT falls in their laps, do it, but I don’t think they need to pick up Mims and redshirt him for a year….

I seem to be the only one concerned about DL. Cam is nearing the end of the road. Ogunjobi is too inconsistent. Benton is a beast. I have zero faith of anyone else stepping up and playing a major role if Cam or Og are unable to go a full season.

 

[Andy99]

I seem to be the only one concerned about DL. Cam is nearing the end of the road. Ogunjobi is too inconsistent. Benton is a beast. I have zero faith of anyone else stepping up and playing a major role if Cam or Og are unable to go a full season.

Yeah, I’m worried and Cam is not nearly at the end of the road, he’s there lol….I understand why they want to bring him back for the leadership/room but they’re paying him $16M for that…crazy

 

[WickedWrister]

I seem to be the only one concerned about DL. Cam is nearing the end of the road. Ogunjobi is too inconsistent. Benton is a beast. I have zero faith of anyone else stepping up and playing a major role if Cam or Og are unable to go a full season.

Yeah, DeMarvin Leal has been a non factor his first two years. Got a little run when Cam was out but then saw his playing time reduced.

Steelers did use 3 top 30 visits so far on DT/DL: Braden Fiske, Khristian Boyd, Darius Robinson

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

Because you get better value at C in round 2 and 3, but they also need a plug and play guy and there are at best only 2-3 of those guys.

Passing up a premium position like RT if there is a good prospect there because you backed yourself into a corner on C, isn’t exactly an ideal way to build your team.

So they lose value at 20 to get a C or move up in round 2 to get one.

Something has to give.

That’s basically what happens when you have a big need at a position that doesn’t carry as much value as other positions.

 

[Peat]

I seem to be the only one concerned about DL. Cam is nearing the end of the road. Ogunjobi is too inconsistent. Benton is a beast. I have zero faith of anyone else stepping up and playing a major role if Cam or Og are unable to go a full season.

No, I think that's a definite want for the team. Maybe not a full blown need because they can muddle through if there's no injuries but in terms of insurance/succession, it's very much a want. A pick could work his way into a lot of snaps by the end of the season too.

Yeah, DeMarvin Leal has been a non factor his first two years. Got a little run when Cam was out but then saw his playing time reduced.

Steelers did use 3 top 30 visits so far on DT/DL: Braden Fiske, Khristian Boyd, Darius Robinson

Someone leaked they don't think he's trying hard enough to improve. He has a road to Damascus moment this summer, or he's dead meat.

Both Weidl and Dunbar were at LSU's pro day which has Maason Smith.

 

[WickedWrister]

I hate myself for posting this but Poni actually poses the question we've been talking about in an interesting way:

 

[Peat]

I hope the Steelers move down about 10 spots and pick up an extra second…I don’t think picking up a tackle project at #20 is a good move….certainly not urgent…move down and pick up some really good players at center, WR, CB, Dline…what was the point of keeping and developing Cook and Anderson at tackle last season? Sure, if a tremendous plug and play RT falls in their laps, do it, but I don’t think they need to pick up Mims and redshirt him for a year….

If someone invites you to the steakhouse with the hottest new rep in town, they're picking up the bill, you don't tell them you have a booking at Outback.

Just like Loudermilk and Leal won't stop them taking a pedigree DT, or Trice and Rush from taking a pedigree CB, or Austin a pedigree WR etc.etc.

I do agree this looks like a draft the Steelers can afford to move down in but I'd still be eying up that RT class. They're superb athletes and would represent about the best long term value possible to the Steelers short of a QB. I'm not turning my nose up at them just because they're a little raw, or because there's some Walmart burger patties in the fridge. I wonder whether they want a developmental tackle when they have Cook and Anderson, but a guy like Mims or Guyton? Nah.

I hate myself for posting this but Poni actually poses the question we've been talking about in an interesting way:

Short term A.

Long term it should be B.