OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[bigdaddyk88]

Well this mindset explains your absolute devotion to Mike Tomlin.

i am kinda excited to going back to 2004 and 2014 on offense running often and throwing long

 

[MrBrightside]

i am kinda excited to going back to 2004 and 2014 on offense running often and throwing long

Should work out great using Mack Hollis, Kenny Pickett, and Darnell Washington a majority of snaps.

 

[WickedWrister]

But you're getting 2 for 1 with the FA and draft pick for about the same money.

That's 2 shots at helping to replace his production, creating a deeper WR corp if they both work out, that fit the offense better if you target the right guys, and is a longer term solution than keeping DJ for 1 year.

Sure, but to what end? If we needed to create cap space to sign a core player, or go after a marquee QB in FA, I'd be with you. But what you outlined doesn't really accomplish anything besides diluting the talent we have at the position. Just feels like creating a hole to plug it with inferior options. There's more known quantities when getting a veteran but it's still not a sure thing. ARob seems like a guy that checks some of the Arthur Smith boxes, especially when it comes to blocking, but underwhelmed this year. And I don't see a clear cut option in FA that would be a good fit.

Like yeah, trading a future FA for draft picks always makes sense on paper yet rarely happens because most of the time the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[Peat]

This might actually be one rare instance where I want to see PFF run blocking grades. I'm not going to pretend to have analyzed all the run blocking snaps he had this year. I know the Bengals game was egregious, but is there any merit to the notion that DJ is a complete 0 in the run blocking department?

Like I'm not completely dismissing the idea that DJ isn't an Arthur Smith's type of WR. What I do find unlikely is that the same decision makers are going to do a 180 shortly after paying him for a middling kind of return.

It was 18 months ago now. I don't think that's a short time in the NFL. If you assume the 5 most important decision makers there are owner, HC, GM, OC, and WR coach, the latter three have all been replaced. The team has already done a 180 on a couple of signings from 2022 in terms of Cole and Okorafor, and even quicker one on Trubisky.

Trading Johnson is a whole different barrel of fish to those guys in terms of impact on the team, but that's for good and for bad. Yes he's more important. But yes he might get a return and yes the locker room stuff has to be talked about here. None of us know the truth of that but equally, based on what has been reported, none of us would be surprised to learn he's a problem right?

As for the blocking... couldn't find the stats searching. My guess is he's not a 0, but he's also not the plus blocker Smith would like.

 

[WickedWrister]

It was 18 months ago now. I don't think that's a short time in the NFL. If you assume the 5 most important decision makers there are owner, HC, GM, OC, and WR coach, the latter three have all been replaced. The team has already done a 180 on a couple of signings from 2022 in terms of Cole and Okorafor, and even quicker one on Trubisky.

Trading Johnson is a whole different barrel of fish to those guys in terms of impact on the team, but that's for good and for bad. Yes he's more important. But yes he might get a return and yes the locker room stuff has to be talked about here. None of us know the truth of that but equally, based on what has been reported, none of us would be surprised to learn he's a problem right?

As for the blocking... couldn't find the stats searching. My guess is he's not a 0, but he's also not the plus blocker Smith would like.

Rest of your points are valid, but wasn't Khan the GM that gave DJ his extension? Colbert stepped down after the 2022 draft and we extended DJ in August of that same year.

 

[MrBrightside]

Spending this much time discussing how well an outside WR blocks in the run game rather than the 1203 more important things a WR does is something else. Just play Myles Boykin then.

 

[pistolpete11]

Sure, but to what end? If we needed to create cap space to sign a core player, or go after a marquee QB in FA, I'd be with you. But what you outlined doesn't really accomplish anything besides diluting the talent we have at the position. Just feels like creating a hole to plug it with inferior options. There's more known quantities when getting a veteran but it's still not a sure thing. ARob seems like a guy that checks some of the Arthur Smith boxes, especially when it comes to blocking, but underwhelmed this year. And I don't see a clear cut option in FA that would be a good fit.

Like yeah, trading a future FA for draft picks always makes sense on paper yet rarely happens because most of the time the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

It's only diluting the talent at the position if you miss on the pick, which is a risk and why a team might be willing to pay to get a proven commodity in DJ.

But it's a risk I'm willing to take given the Steelers success at finding WR talent in the draft, the possibility to find better fits for the offense, and a longer term solution.

 

[MrBrightside]

But it's a risk I'm willing to take given the Steelers success at finding WR talent in the draft, the possibility to find better fits for the offense, and a longer term solution.

You do realize that the GM and scouts that made those prior selections are no longer with the organization, right? And even those that did had whiffs - Washington, Sweed, Wheaton, even Claypoole - the odds on getting a good NFL WR outside the 1st round are not as high as you seem to think.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Should work out great using Mack Hollis, Kenny Pickett, and Darnell Washington a majority of snaps.

I am more of a Van Jefferson guy myself but they will probably bring back Robinson at a cheaper rate to block. Connor is going to play fb since Robinson used one for 200 snaps last season

 

[MrBrightside]

I was curious so I took a look. Second round WR the past 3 years:

2021:

Elijah Moore
Rondale Moore
D'Wayne Eskridge
Tutu Atwell
Terrance Marshall

2022:

Christian Watson
Wan'dale Robinson
John Metchie
Tyquan Thornton
George Pickens
Alec Pierce
Skyy Moore

2023:

Jonathan Mingo
Jayden Reed
Rashee Rice
Marvin Mims

I mean, other than Pickens there are zero impact WR there. It's still early on most of them, and the Packers' guys have some promise, but it's hardly a given that a 2nd round WR is going to work out.

 

[pistolpete11]

You do realize that the GM and scouts that made those prior selections are no longer with the organization, right? And even those that did had whiffs - Washington, Sweed, Wheaton, even Claypoole - the odds on getting a good NFL WR outside the 1st round are not as high as you seem to think.

I'm done talking about this, man. I've made my point perfectly clear. You can disagree if you want. Live in your fears with a small, soft, WR2 making $18M for only 1 more year.

 

[WickedWrister]

It's only diluting the talent at the position if you miss on the pick, which is a risk and why a team might be willing to pay to get a proven commodity in DJ.

But it's a risk I'm willing to take given the Steelers success at finding WR talent in the draft, the possibility to find better fits for the offense, and a longer term solution.

I agree to the extent that we need to be planning for the future at WR anyway given DJ's UFA status and ARob probably getting released soon.

We are pretty good at drafting WR even if I do think a lot of that was having a franchise QB capable of elevating his receivers. Pickens looking like a bonafide stud with poor QB play disproves that a little though.

Don't fact check me, but I also think we've spent more Day 1 and 2 picks on WR than any other team in the league over the last 15 odd years. So while we do have a good hit rate at the position, we are also just absolutely addicted to drafting them lol.

Speaking of, latest mock has us taking Xavier Worthy out of Texas in the 2nd.

Mock Draft Monday – Pittsburgh Steelers 2024 Mock Draft: February 26

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ season is in the books following their first-round exit in the playoffs. The team has transitioned to the offseason where the pre-draft process ramps up as Pittsburgh looks to bolster its roster in hopes of having a better opportunity to compete in the postseason next...

steelersdepot.com

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm done talking about this, man. I've made my point perfectly clear. You can disagree if you want. Live in your fears with a small, soft, WR2 making $18M for only 1 more year.

Cool. And you can live in your fears of not having WR that can block the hell out of people so Najee Harris can gain 3.8 ypc instead of 3.6 and they can play all the 16-13 games and be physical as hell. Tomlin is going to be so stoked. Take care.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Peat]

Rest of your points are valid, but wasn't Khan the GM that gave DJ his extension? Colbert stepped down after the 2022 draft and we extended DJ in August of that same year.

Ah yeah, probably right there.

 

[pistolpete11]

I agree to the extent that we need to be planning for the future at WR anyway given DJ's UFA status and ARob probably getting released soon.

We are pretty good at drafting WR even if I do think a lot of that was having a franchise QB capable of elevating his receivers. Pickens looking like a bonafide stud with poor QB play disproves that a little though.

Don't fact check me, but I also think we've spent more Day 1 and 2 picks on WR than any other team in the league over the last 15 odd years. So while we do have a good hit rate at the position, we are also just absolutely addicted to drafting them lol.

Speaking of, latest mock has us taking Xavier Worthy out of Texas in the 2nd.

Mock Draft Monday – Pittsburgh Steelers 2024 Mock Draft: February 26

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ season is in the books following their first-round exit in the playoffs. The team has transitioned to the offseason where the pre-draft process ramps up as Pittsburgh looks to bolster its roster in hopes of having a better opportunity to compete in the postseason next...

steelersdepot.com

QB play is going to affect things both positively and negatively, no doubt. It's the most dependent position in the game. They did have some guys that went on to have success elsewhere, though. Wallace and Sanders, for example, both 3rd rounders. Sanders went to Peyton Manning which even at the time wasn't exactly a downgrade from Ben, but he also put up over 1,000 yards with Trevor Siemian as his QB and I'm not even sure that's a real person. I've got no doubt AB would have too if they let him go before he was having a mental breakdown.

That would be interesting if they take more WR than other teams. It does kind of make sense. The only WR they have extended and given big money to off the top of my head are AB, Ward, and I guess DJ. So they're always in need. I can't remember the last WR they took in the first round, though. Holmes? It seems they view WR more as widgets than hot commodities.

I can't say I disagree with that strategy either. WR aren't as bad as RB or CB, but they do age out rather quickly. Look at the league leaders. They are almost all under 30. Some of the true WR1 type guys can extend that a little bit and others can still stick around and contribute just not at the upper level, but it's a position that you can get a few good years out of and then move onto the next one. So unless you have a really good one, probably not worth paying a lot for.

That's why even if they keep DJ for this year, I don't want to be the team to give him big money to stick around beyond next year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

QB play is going to affect things both positively and negatively, no doubt. It's the most dependent position in the game. They did have some guys that went on to have success elsewhere, though. Wallace and Sanders, for example, both 3rd rounders. Sanders went to Peyton Manning which even at the time wasn't exactly a downgrade from Ben, but he also put up over 1,000 yards with Trevor Siemian as his QB and I'm not even sure that's a real person. I've got no doubt AB would have too if they let him go before he was having a mental breakdown.

That would be interesting if they take more WR than other teams. It does kind of make sense. The only WR they have extended and given big money to off the top of my head are AB, Ward, and I guess DJ. So they're always in need. I can't remember the last WR they took in the first round, though. Holmes? It seems they view WR more as widgets than hot commodities.

I can't say I disagree with that strategy either. WR aren't as bad as RB or CB, but they do age out rather quickly. Look at the league leaders. They are almost all under 30. Some of the true WR1 type guys can extend that a little bit and others can still stick around and contribute just not at the upper level, but it's a position that you can get a few good years out of and then move onto the next one. So unless you have a really good one, probably not worth paying a lot for.

That's why even if they keep DJ for this year, I don't want to be the team to give him big money to stick around beyond next year.

None of the keep DJ crowd have explained how things will be any different next year at this time when he walks in FA.

He will still need to be replaced by a rookie or FA acquisition in 2025, minus the asset they would have received for trading him

I’m failing to see how they come out ahead except for the hope DJ helps them for another throw away season.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

None of the keep DJ crowd have explained how things will be any different next year at this time when he walks in FA.

He will still need to be replaced by a rookie or FA acquisition in 2025, minus the asset they would have received for trading him

I’m failing to see how they come out ahead except for the hope DJ helps them for another throw away season.

I offer hm and extension i want the offensive skill and o line players locked up in place so all i need to do is go qb hunting in 25

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I offer hm and extension i want the offensive skill and o line players locked up in place so all i need to do is go qb hunting in 25

You may offer him an extension, but will the Steelers?

Who is the last receiver they offered a long term third contract to outside of Ward and AB?

He’s not even in their universe as a WR, so why would he get that elusive long term third deal the Steelers almost never hand out to WRs?

Are they going to give DJ a big long term deal and let GP walk, because this org has never paid two WRs big money deals concurrently.

Bye Plex.

Bye Randle El.

Bye Wallace.

Bye Sanders.

Bye JuJu.

Bye Pickens?

The keep DJ fans really aren’t thinking this through very well.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You may offer him an extension, but will the Steelers?

Who is the last receiver they offered a long term third contract to outside of Ward and AB?

He’s not even in their universe as a WR, so why would he get that elusive long term third deal the Steelers almost never hand out to WRs?

Are they going to give DJ a big long term deal and let GP walk, because this org has never paid two WRs big money deals concurrently.

Bye Plex.

Bye Randle El.

Bye Wallace.

Bye Sanders.

Bye JuJu.

Bye Pickens?

The keep DJ fans really aren’t thinking this through very well.

They had a qb who made it work with whoever at wr they don’t have that guy anymore the bengals tagged Higgins and will pay chase

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They had a qb who made it work with whoever at wr they don’t have that guy anymore the bengals tagged Higgins and will pay chase

The Bengals aren’t the Steelers.

The Steelers let Plex walk right after Ben’s rookie season, because Ward was already getting paid.

There is literally zero history to show they will pay two WR big long term contracts concurrently in the FA era.

Even going back to Thigpen, they let him walk even though he was a pro bowl receiver coming off the best season for a Steelers WR in over a decade.

He never got that rare third long term deal.

Only two guys in 31 years of the modern free agency era have gotten those deals from the Steelers.

Again, why is DJ so special that he deserves it?

Must be his rare ability to go 30+ games without a 100 yard game.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Plaxico Burress Explains Why He Turned Down Steelers' Offer In 2005 And Signed The Same Deal With Giants

The Pittsburgh Steelers are not a team that throws a lot of big contracts at wide receivers. There was, of course, Antonio Brown, and before him, Hines Ward had a very long career here. Others tend to have short stays, no matter how good they were, although sometimes there are extraneous factors...

steelersdepot.com

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I agree to the extent that we need to be planning for the future at WR anyway given DJ's UFA status and ARob probably getting released soon.

We are pretty good at drafting WR even if I do think a lot of that was having a franchise QB capable of elevating his receivers. Pickens looking like a bonafide stud with poor QB play disproves that a little though.

Don't fact check me, but I also think we've spent more Day 1 and 2 picks on WR than any other team in the league over the last 15 odd years. So while we do have a good hit rate at the position, we are also just absolutely addicted to drafting them lol.

Speaking of, latest mock has us taking Xavier Worthy out of Texas in the 2nd.

Mock Draft Monday – Pittsburgh Steelers 2024 Mock Draft: February 26

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ season is in the books following their first-round exit in the playoffs. The team has transitioned to the offseason where the pre-draft process ramps up as Pittsburgh looks to bolster its roster in hopes of having a better opportunity to compete in the postseason next...

steelersdepot.com

The receivers elevated the QB more than the other way around. The Steelers are undeniably great at finding/developing WRs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Plaxico Burress Explains Why He Turned Down Steelers' Offer In 2005 And Signed The Same Deal With Giants

The Pittsburgh Steelers are not a team that throws a lot of big contracts at wide receivers. There was, of course, Antonio Brown, and before him, Hines Ward had a very long career here. Others tend to have short stays, no matter how good they were, although sometimes there are extraneous factors...

steelersdepot.com

Plex smoked a few too many doobies… Steelers signed Wilson and planned on moving on from Plex.

There was never a big push from the Steelers to sign him, which was confirmed many times by the beat guys back then.

Burress even said after the loss to NE he was basically gone.

DR had to go back and plead with the Giants to reinstate their offer to Plex, which was like a week after the Steelers signed Wilson.

Wilson signed March 8th.

Plex signed March 17th.

Do the math - Steelers were not offering him a contract by then. Like cmon Plex.

Plex reinventing history:

Giant surprise: Plaxico Burress signs $25M deal

Just one week after abruptly breaking off contract negotiations with Plaxico Burress, the New York Giants on Thursday evening signed the free agent wide receiver to a six-year, $25 million contract, ESPN.com has learned.

www.espn.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The receivers elevated the QB more than the other way around. The Steelers are undeniably great at finding/developing WRs.

Wr is the mist dependent position in football AB did nothing without ben here