OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[OnMyOwn]

So, I’m hearing unconfirmed rumors we’re getting fields. So there’s that to think about.

 

[Josey Wales]

So, I’m hearing unconfirmed rumors we’re getting fields. So there’s that to think about.

Some Loser with like 250 Followers

 

[JTG]

I think the tough thing when evaluating where Ben ranks among QBs of his era is what is his "era"? Does Mahomes count as well?

I think Brees, Manning, Rodgers and Brady are all inarguable and were definitely a part of Ben's era. After that, I don't particularly see anyone who has a better case for #5 than Ben. But if you start including anyone who played in the same years as Ben, then Mahomes would clearly rank above him as well.

Brees, Manning, and Brady were in the league like 6 years before Ben was drafted. Ben is up against guys like Rodgers, Rivers, Eli, Cutler, Ryan, Carson Palmer, and Romo. In that crowd - he's definitely a top 5. In the crowd before...he's for sure in the conversation.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Some Loser with like 250 Followers

Haha thanks. My buddy was sending me things, so figured we can bring it up again.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Harris' stats were strongest in outside zone tho - Comparing Steelers Run Scheme With Arthur Smith's In Tennessee

To me the fit lots stronger than you're saying.

That honestly blows me away. I figured there is no way this is true

 

[Empoleon8771]

So, I’m hearing unconfirmed rumors we’re getting fields. So there’s that to think about.

Likely fake news but this is the unconfirmed rumor.

Brees, Manning, and Brady were in the league like 6 years before Ben was drafted. Ben is up against guys like Rodgers, Rivers, Eli, Cutler, Ryan, Carson Palmer, and Romo. In that crowd - he's definitely a top 5. In the crowd before...he's for sure in the conversation.

Brady and Brees were 100% in his era, that is inarguable. I think it's also a huge stretch to not include Manning in that era too.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Quantifiably Rivers had slightly better career stats, weird comment to make. But from watching them play he was more accurate and had better anticipation. And his stats aren't juiced from having AB to mask his decline.

But it's odd how people are claiming Roethlisberger was a clear top 5 QB when he was 5th at very best, probably a bit below.

So if you had to win 1 game, you'd pick Rivers over Ben?

 

[OnMyOwn]

Gotcha. He said he got a bleacher report notification. I’m guessing with their GM basically saying they’d need to move him soon if they’re going to, rumors picked up again.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Brady and Brees were 100% in his era, that is inarguable. I think it's also a huge stretch to not include Manning in that era too.

That's hard, bc what is the "cutoff"?

Manning and Ben were drafted like 6/7 years apart? So I suppose it's fair to say that half of Ben's career, Manning was in his era but not the 2nd half.
Believe Ben played 6/7 years after Manning retired

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fanduel actually threw out this trade idea earlier today:



Honestly if that's all Fields costs, I don't see much of an argument to not go for it. I'm not crazy about Fields, but you can't deny that a 2nd rounder for his upside seems like a no brainer.

 

[xlm34]

Gotcha. He said he got a bleacher report notification. I’m guessing with their GM basically saying they’d need to move him soon if they’re going to, rumors picked up again.

Yeah we’ll probably know where Fields ends up in the next week or two. Lint trading him before free agency seems like it’d be a dumb move on the Bears end.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's hard, bc what is the "cutoff"?

Manning and Ben were drafted like 6/7 years apart? So I suppose it's fair to say that half of Ben's career, Manning was in his era but not the 2nd half.
Believe Ben played 6/7 years after Manning retired

I think the thing that firmly puts Manning in the same era as Ben is that he won MVP in 2013, which was smack dab in the middle of Ben's prime. If he would have been on the decline of his career with Ben (like what Farve was), I don't think you'd include him. But the fact that he was winning MVPs while Ben was in his prime firmly puts the two in the same era.

Manning is like 2000-2015 for me while Ben is 2005-2020. There's enough overlap there for me to put the two in the same era.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the thing that firmly puts Manning in the same era as Ben is that he won MVP in 2013, which was smack dab in the middle of Ben's prime. If he would have been on the decline of his career with Ben (like what Farve was), I don't think you'd include him. But the fact that he was winning MVPs while Ben was in his prime firmly puts the two in the same era.

Manning is like 2000-2015 for me while Ben is 2005-2020. There's enough overlap there for me to put the two in the same era.

Probably fair. I can't make a compelling argument against that reasoning.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Their stats are basically the same.

Crunching the Numbers: Comparing two remaining quarterbacks from the class of 2004

There are only a handful players who were selected in 2004 remaining in the NFL.

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

Add in the postseason difference, this isn't hard.

Yes they have very similar stats. And what postseason difference? The part where Roethlisberger had one of the greatest defenses of all time?

He had 28 interceptions in 23 games. He was most responsible for a handful of playoff losses. They could have won 3 or 4 SBs with a more consistent QB.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes they have very similar stats. And what postseason difference? The part where Roethlisberger had one of the greatest defenses of all time?

He had 28 interceptions in 23 games. He was most responsible for a handful of playoff losses. They could have won 3 or 4 SBs with a more consistent QB.

Rivers went 5-7 in the playoffs over his career with an 85.3 passer rating. Even with criticizing Ben's playoff performances, his passer rating is still higher (86.7).

There isn't an argument for Rivers over Ben whatsoever.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yes they have very similar stats. And what postseason difference? The part where Roethlisberger had one of the greatest defenses of all time?

He had 28 interceptions in 23 games. He was most responsible for a handful of playoff losses. They could have won 3 or 4 SBs with a more consistent QB.

Ben's postseason passer rating is higher than Rivers' is, but if we just want to cherry pick random comments about postseason games, perhaps the Chargers might have sniffed a Super Bowl during his career if he was better in the postseason.

 

[Josey Wales]

Fanduel actually threw out this trade idea earlier today:



Honestly if that's all Fields costs, I don't see much of an argument to not go for it. I'm not crazy about Fields, but you can't deny that a 2nd rounder for his upside seems like a no brainer.

Fields Blows Dead Goats

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ben's postseason passer rating is higher than Rivers' is, but if we just want to cherry pick random comments about postseason games, perhaps the Chargers might have sniffed a Super Bowl during his career if he was better in the postseason.

We can talk about stats, but if there is a toss-up between 2 players you ask yourself: if I had to win 1 game, who do I want to start?

In no universe would anyone pick Rivers over Ben.

 

[xlm34]

Fanduel actually threw out this trade idea earlier today:



Honestly if that's all Fields costs, I don't see much of an argument to not go for it. I'm not crazy about Fields, but you can't deny that a 2nd rounder for his upside seems like a no brainer.

I wouldn’t be shocked if Fields gets less than what’s being projected. I don’t know if the bidding war that the Bears probably hope for is going to happen.

I can’t see Payton having much interest in him so that makes me think Denver is out. I’d be surprised if the Raiders want to reunite Fields and Getsy. All signs point to the Steelers sticking with Pickett. The Falcons reportedly are more interested in the draft route.

So what options does that leave? One of those teams probably just says f*** it and goes after Fields but I dunno.

 

[Andy99]

if we’re throwing multiple picks at the Bears for Fields, it better be 7th rounders lol…he’s really not much better, if that, than Pickett…

 

[Peat]

Fanduel actually threw out this trade idea earlier today:



Honestly if that's all Fields costs, I don't see much of an argument to not go for it. I'm not crazy about Fields, but you can't deny that a 2nd rounder for his upside seems like a no brainer.

Maybe I have to hope I'm wrong soon but I don't see the upside. I will openly admit this is all report reading and stat watching but how often does a guy overcome what he's doing from this point in his career? It's Y3 and he's not one of the top 20 throwing QBs in the league. There's stats pointing to him being very badly when put in no pressure/clean pocket situations, which indicates there's only so much that improving his line will do. I think he's always going to make a bunch of mistakes.

I firmly see him as giving up valuable assets to prolong the misery.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Fields gets less than what’s being projected. I don’t know if the bidding war that the Bears probably hope for is going to happen.

I can’t see Payton having much interest in him so that makes me think Denver is out. I’d be surprised if the Raiders want to reunite Fields and Getsy. All signs point to the Steelers sticking with Pickett. The Falcons reportedly are more interested in the draft route.

So what options does that leave? One of those teams probably just says f*** it and goes after Fields but I dunno.

I think the thing with him is that the price he's being projected at is already pretty low for what QBs normally go for. The price in that tweet is more in line with what the 49ers paid for Garapolo.

I think you could be right though, Fields only has 1 guaranteed year and his 5th year option left. His 5th year option is going to be around $25 million to $30 million, and you kinda need to commit to paying that up front if you trade for him.

 

[Andy99]

Fanduel actually threw out this trade idea earlier today:



Honestly if that's all Fields costs, I don't see much of an argument to not go for it. I'm not crazy about Fields, but you can't deny that a 2nd rounder for his upside seems like a no brainer.

No, he’s not worth 2nd and 4th round picks, and I’ll be pissed if the Steelers pay that…only a fourth for him, given his contract situation

 

[Peat]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Fields gets less than what’s being projected. I don’t know if the bidding war that the Bears probably hope for is going to happen.

I can’t see Payton having much interest in him so that makes me think Denver is out. I’d be surprised if the Raiders want to reunite Fields and Getsy. All signs point to the Steelers sticking with Pickett. The Falcons reportedly are more interested in the draft route.

So what options does that leave? One of those teams probably just says f*** it and goes after Fields but I dunno.

The Pats are rumoured to be interested. I can see it making sense for them if they look at Maye/Daniels and go "uhhh". But yeah. Potentially very short list. Particularly if the Falcons go no.

Maybe if he's cheap enough, doing a competition between Pickett and Fields makes sense. I still think no to that, but two shots are usually better than one (counterpoint - two lottery tickets don't win much more than one).

Incidentally, I am curious to see where we are with the draft on QBs in a little. Everyone got excited about the athletic tools/production of Williams/Maye/Daniels, but we're now hitting the point where teams start looking for warts. They're all pretty prone to getting sacked, which I don't like.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Incidentally, I am curious to see where we are with the draft on QBs in a little. Everyone got excited about the athletic tools/production of Williams/Maye/Daniels, but we're now hitting the point where teams start looking for warts. They're all pretty prone to getting sacked, which I don't like.

I'm no NCAA to NFL QB guru, but I like Maye out of all the QB's this year. Dude just looks like he's in command at all times.