OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Empoleon8771]

The Steelers play an extremely risk adverse style of offense that leaves little room for error.

How exactly will one of the most turnover prone QBs in the league fit into that?

People need to remember what happened with MT and how he sunk them with his turnovers.

It will be much the same with Fields, except he puts the ball on the turf way more than MT ever has.

Fields hasn't turned the ball over much more than Jackson has in the last 2 years.

Fields: 20 interceptions and 6 fumbles lost in 28 games
Jackson: 14 interceptions and 8 fumbles lost in 28 games

Fields fumbles a ton (26 fumbles in those 28 games) but he has only lost about a quarter of them. He has more fumble recoveries (9) than fumbles lost (6) over that window.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's compare a few more QBs to Fields as well in the last 2 years:

-Hurts: 21 interceptions and 7 fumbles lost in 32 games
-Allen: 32 interceptions and 9 fumbles lost in 33 games
-Tua: 22 interceptions and 6 fumbles lost in 30 games
-Prescott: 23 interceptions and 3 fumbles lost in 29 games
-Lawrence: 22 interceptions and 16 fumbles lost in 33 games

Fields doesn't really turn the ball over much more than any other starting QB. His issue is that his passing game isn't as good as these other QBs, not that he's mega turnover prone while others aren't.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I kinda want to see what Pickett can do with an actual coordinator and not playing so conservatively. Didn’t catch too many Pitt games is that just his M.O? Play it safe and try not to make mistakes or turn the ball over?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

The Steelers play an extremely risk adverse style of offense that leaves little room for error.

How exactly will one of the most turnover prone QBs in the league fit into that?

People need to remember what happened with MT and how he sunk them with his turnovers.

It will be much the same with Fields, except he puts the ball on the turf way more than MT ever has.

Meh. He’ll still be far better to watch. I’m not sure I can stand another season of Pickett being the worst QB I have ever seen for the first 3 quarters.

He’s like the Jansen Harkens of QBs. Just hoping somebody else makes a play and the defense does enough for him to win the game. Yay!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I kinda want to see what Pickett can do with an actual coordinator and not playing so conservatively. Didn’t catch too many Pitt games is that just his M.O? Play it safe and try not to make mistakes or turn the ball over?

I think that's what the Steelers turned him into, he wasn't this at all when he played at Pitt.

Granted he was helped by playing with Jordan Addison, who just demolished the shitty DBs in the ACC, but he was never shy when playing in college. It's Tomlin and the Steelers that have made him scared at making mistakes.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Fields hasn't turned the ball over much more than Jackson has in the last 2 years.

Fields: 20 interceptions and 6 fumbles lost in 28 games
Jackson: 14 interceptions and 8 fumbles lost in 28 games

Fields fumbles a ton (26 fumbles in those 28 games) but he has only lost about a quarter of them. He has more fumble recoveries (9) than fumbles lost (6) over that window.

You have to go by actual fumbles, not fumbles lost.

Recovered fumbles are a roll of the dice who recovers them.

Look at Jackson this season…

He’s always put the ball on the carpet a lot, but he/teammates recovered a majority of them.

His luck ran out this season when he had 11 fumbles and lost 6, which is well over half his fumbles being turned over.

If Fields luck runs out like LJ and he throws 10-11 picks, that means an avg of at least one turnover a game.

That’s not a sustainable way to win under Tomlin.

Meh. He’ll still be far better to watch. I’m not sure I can stand another season of Pickett being the worst QB I have ever seen for the first 3 quarters.

He’s like the Jansen Harkens of QBs. Just hoping somebody else makes a play and the defense does enough for him to win the game. Yay!

Steelers margin of error is so slim on offense that Fields will either kill them with turnovers or Tomlin will KP him and make him play safe ball also.

Again, we saw how devastating MT turnovers were for this team.

They aren’t built to overcome mistakes on offense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You have to go by actual fumbles, not fumbles lost.

Recovered fumbles are a roll of the dice who recovers them.

Look at Jackson this season…

He’s always put the ball on the carpet a lot, but he/teammates recovered a majority of them.

His luck ran out this season when he had 11 fumbles and lost 6, which is well over half his fumbles being turned over.

If Fields luck runs out like LJ and he throws 10-11 picks, that means an avg of at least one turnover a game.

That’s not a sustainable way to win under Tomlin.

The issue here is that if this is your barometer, there are only a handful of QBs in the NFL who give a "sustainable way to win under Tomlin".

Trevor Lawrence has 38 turnovers in his last 33 games. Even with that, I'd upgrade on Pickett to him without even thinking for a second. And I'm someone who thinks Lawrence hasn't been all that great in the NFL so far.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The issue here is that if this is your barometer, there are only a handful of QBs in the NFL who give a "sustainable way to win under Tomlin".

Trevor Lawrence has 38 turnovers in his last 33 games. Even with that, I'd upgrade on Pickett to him without even thinking for a second. And I'm someone who thinks Lawrence hasn't been all that great in the NFL so far.

Those guys play in wide open offenses built to score points, so turnovers can actually be overcome unlike the way Tomlin wants to play offense.

His entire philosophy is for the offense not to f*** up, keep it close and win on D.

If you think Fields turning it over once a game on avg will lead to more wins, more power to you.

I can’t see that ever happening.

 

[WickedWrister]

He’s like the Jansen Harkens of QBs. Just hoping somebody else makes a play and the defense does enough for him to win the game. Yay!

 

[OnMyOwn]

Didn’t he turn it over running the ball a million times? I feel like he reduced the fumbles significantly last year and also didn’t run as much. I guess I just don’t feel like the guy at 24 years old is done improving.

 

[JTG]

Fan was talking about potentially adding Christian Wilkins. I approve that message whole heartedly. Kill them with defense and the run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Didn’t he turn it over running the ball a million times? I feel like he reduced the fumbles significantly last year and also didn’t run as much. I guess I just don’t feel like the guy at 24 years old is done improving.

He had 10 fumbles and 4 fumbles lost in 13 games this year. Last year he had 16 fumbles and 2 fumbles lost in 15 games.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Didn’t he turn it over running the ball a million times? I feel like he reduced the fumbles significantly last year and also didn’t run as much. I guess I just don’t feel like the guy at 24 years old is done improving.

Jackson had done a better job of holding onto the ball in 21 and 22… he had a total of 11 fumbles and 5 lost in those two years combined, then this past year he fumbled 11 times and lost 6.

There’s no guarantee a running QB like Fields who has always been susceptible to fumbles, will not lose 6-7.

 

[JTG]

Nepo-baby battle between Derek Watt and Connor Heyward for the last roster spot?

Connor Heyward is actually a really good football player though. I wouldn't lump the two together.

 

[WickedWrister]

He had 10 fumbles and 4 fumbles lost in 13 games this year. Last year he had 16 fumbles and 2 fumbles lost in 15 games.

Found this article regarding the fumbles: "That means that Fields’ actual fumble rate compared to his overall number of opportunities is 8.2%, which is the ninth-worst in this group, making him slightly better than Daniel Jones (9%) and slightly worse than Mitchell Trubisky (7.7%). He’s bad, but he’s not Tua Tagovailoa bad (12.6%). He’s still really close to average."

You have to factor in the ~150 rushing attempts per year.

On Fields and Fumbling: How bad is the problem?

JF1 has an issue with ball security, but it has more to do with the situations he finds himself in than his actual ability to secure the ball.

www.windycitygridiron.com

 

[MrBrightside]

You're very unlikely to win at a high level without high level QB play. You just aren't. Fields is certainly no sure thing and is probably more likely to bust than to become elite, but Pickett has zero chance of being a top level QB and as long as they keep running it back hoping Pickett turns into Ryan Tannehill Lite, the more seasons they'll spend with 10-7 as their ceiling. It's truly amazing to me how many people here (appropriately) knock Tomlin for being so content with mediocrity while simultaneously advocating for a QB whose ceiling is mediocre to get more run.

 

[JTG]

Kurt Benkert - journeyman undrafted QB said that Drake Maye is "a more athletic Mason Rudolph with less arm talent (and a lot less accuracy)."

That is certainly a hot take.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think that's what the Steelers turned him into, he wasn't this at all when he played at Pitt.

Granted he was helped by playing with Jordan Addison, who just demolished the shitty DBs in the ACC, but he was never shy when playing in college. It's Tomlin and the Steelers that have made him scared at making mistakes.

Um outside of his Covid super season year yes this is exactly what he is. Even during his Covid year he would turn into sacks he would hail out left and that was with him averaging 3.3 seconds in a clean pocket. He doesn’t understand nfl open he doesn’t read defenses

 

[Empoleon8771]

Um outside of his Covid super season year yes this is exactly what he is. Even during his Covid year he would turn into sacks he would hail out left and that was with him averaging 3.3 seconds in a clean pocket. He doesn’t understand nfl open he doesn’t read defenses

Did you even read the post I was replying to? I was talking about him turning into an ultra conservative QB. He wasn't that at Pitt.

 

[Josey Wales]

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2024/02/27/justin-fields-trade-kenny-pickett-nfl-combine-draft-mason-rudolph-mike-tomlin/stories/202402260056

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Did you even read the post I was replying to? I was talking about him turning into an ultra conservative QB. He wasn't that at Pitt.

But he was there’s a reason he 1 3000 yard season before his Covid year. He had 2 straight 13 tds 9 interceptions years completing 60 percent of his passes

 

[xlm34]

Dulac needs to hang them up. I don’t think they trade for Fields but losing Mason Rudolph won’t be a factor in their decision. Or Pickett for that matter. If they trade for Fields, he’s the guy they’re going to go with for the next two years

 

[Empoleon8771]

But he was there’s a reason he 1 3000 yard season before his Covid year. He had 2 straight 13 tds 9 interceptions years completing 60 percent of his passes

Literally nothing you're saying has any relevance to what I was talking about.

I actually watched Pickett at Pitt. He was never as ultra conservative with throwing the football as he has become in the NFL. That's a fact. The Steelers beat him into being the shell he is at this point.

Dulac needs to hang them up. I don’t think they trade for Fields but losing Mason Rudolph won’t be a factor in their decision. Or Pickett for that matter. If they trade for Fields, he’s the guy they’re going to go with for the next two years

Yeah 2 of the 3 reasons there were "they'd push aside Pickett" and "they'd lose Rudolph". And I'm like, uh okay?

 

[Josey Wales]

Literally nothing you're saying has any relevance to what I was talking about.

I actually watched Pickett at Pitt. He was never as ultra conservative with throwing the football as he has become in the NFL. That's a fact. The Steelers beat him into being the shell he is at this point.



Yeah 2 of the 3 reasons there were "they'd push aside Pickett" and "they'd lose Rudolph". And I'm like, uh okay?

Pickett has been better than Fields has ever been or will be

 

[WickedWrister]

Pickett has been better than Fields has ever been or will be

What would you say is the best 3 game stretch of his pro career?

2022 Weeks 16-18?