OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Empoleon8771]

Brace yourself for the multi-year extension is all I can say can't say I love the idea but I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't at least pick up the 5th year at this point.

Yeah they should definitely pick up the 5th year, but just don't extend him after that. He'll be 28 in the first year of any extension, which is just begging for him to fall off.

I might be able to be convinced to do a 2 year deal for his age 28 and 29 seasons, but anything more than that is just giving yourself a ticking time bomb.

 

[JTG]

There's also the phenomenon of teams thinking they can always get more out of an asset than the previous team did/has. DJ would be a great example of this with team's thinking he's limited by KP the last few years.

Again, we're not gonna lose much (if any at all) by launching him into orbit for a 2nd. He's not a difference maker here.

If I were a WR starved team and DJ was on the market, I'd absolutely trade a 2nd for him. Probably even more. If he played with a guy like Herbert specifically...I think he'd be insane. DJ and Herbert are a match made in football heaven, IMO.

 

[pistolpete11]

But let’s say Boyd costs the 10 million that you save from DJ, why is he being signed when an Arthur Smith offense uses a slot receiver only 30% of the time? I can get the arguments for trading DJ, but I don’t get the idea of using every asset gained in a potential trade on the receiving room.

To me if you trade DJ, you then draft a WR relatively early, sign a cheap ish WR in FA (like Noah Brown or Reynolds) and then use whatever is left from the 10 million to make a more lucrative offer to someone like Sneed if they hit FA.

Sure. I don't really care about Boyd in particular. The idea is to sign someone that fits better in FA.

Although, I'd add just because Boyd plays primarily in the slot doesn't mean he can't play on the outside and you still need someone who can play the slot for the times you need it. I don't know enough about Brown or Reynolds to say whether they can.

 

[JTG]

The young offensive core has to take a step forward and they have to find a voice and a leader. If this bombs out again, we are better off just letting all of these dudes walk after their 4th years because they ain't them.

Pickett has to throw 20 TDs and have a per play yards in the top 10 in the league. There is no reason for that not to happen. I don't think it's unreasonable. For this offense it's time to shit or get off the pot. I don't think Artie is a miracle worker, but if he can even bring some semblance of what happened in Tennessee, I'm happy.

Sure. I don't really care about Boyd in particular. The idea is to sign someone that fits better in FA.

Although, I'd add just because Boyd plays primarily in the slot doesn't mean he can't play on the outside and you still need someone who can play the slot for the times you need it. I don't know enough about Brown or Reynolds to say whether they can.

I'd sign Boyd, put him in the slot and put Austin on the outside if they trade DJ. Austin was invisible in the slot.

 

[WickedWrister]

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with the whole "draft, develop, and trade before you have to pay them big $$$" strategy when it comes to WR. The positions prices have skyrocketed and rookies are more pro-ready then ever coming out. And our track record at drafting them is pretty good, although I think having #7 all those years had a big part to do with it. This was the main argument for not paying DJ in the first place.

Like I said earlier, it would be a bigger problem if we were cap strapped or needing to pay our rookie QB a $200m contract soon. But he signed a team friendly (compared to what comparable WR's got that year) short term extension. I just don't think our offense, as currently constructed, can stand to lose another playmaker for the upcoming season.

This might actually be one rare instance where I want to see PFF run blocking grades. I'm not going to pretend to have analyzed all the run blocking snaps he had this year. I know the Bengals game was egregious, but is there any merit to the notion that DJ is a complete 0 in the run blocking department?

Like I'm not completely dismissing the idea that DJ isn't an Arthur Smith's type of WR. What I do find unlikely is that the same decision makers are going to do a 180 shortly after paying him for a middling kind of return.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Well that offense was 25th in the NFL in scoring despite playing in a dome and a bad division and with superior personnel at most skill spots than what he has this year. I'm excited.

I think these are 2 different arguements:
1) The choice of OC
2) The personnel

#1 is here, so it's onto #2 and for them to determine if DJ is critical to implementing the scheme

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yeah they should just let Harris play through his 5th year option and then let him walk in free agency. Especially considering Harris' play style, he's primed to fall off a cliff as he gets older.

Now if someone would give up like a 2nd or 3rd for Harris before his 5th year, then you trade him without any hesitation. I don't know why anyone would do that, though.

Harris is getting jis option and an extension Connor got 3/21 Sanders got 4/24 Harris is going to get around that as the floor

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Harris is getting jis option and an extension Connor got 3/21 Sanders got 4/24 Harris is going to get around that as the floor

You're probably right

 

[pistolpete11]

If Higgins is a late 1st or 2nd there's no chance they'd get a 2nd for Johnson. Higgins is younger, bigger, and far more valuable than Johnson.

You keep focusing on one aspect of points.

Sure, I'd rather have Higgins than DJ, too. But he has a higher cap hit for 2024, will cost more to extend, and there's only one of him and I imagine more than 1 team that is looking for WR help.

But sure, as I said in the post you quoted, if they can't get a 2nd, then don't trade him.

 

[Peat]

Yeah they should definitely pick up the 5th year, but just don't extend him after that. He'll be 28 in the first year of any extension, which is just begging for him to fall off.

I might be able to be convinced to do a 2 year deal for his age 28 and 29 seasons, but anything more than that is just giving yourself a ticking time bomb.

No argument. A multi-year deal becomes more attractive if its structured in a way where it reduces his initial cap hit and can be easily walked away from down the line. Which might be how it goes tbh. Steelers love those sort of cheap first year/easy cut last year deals. But they really should be coldblooded about his age and the likely impacts. Not let themselves talk themselves into optimism because he's freaky resilient and has picked up less injuries, or talk up his importance in the locker room.

Shame he's spent his best NFL years in a crap situation really but oh well. Hopefully the team learns some lessons about that too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Harris is getting jis option and an extension Connor got 3/21 Sanders got 4/24 Harris is going to get around that as the floor

They'd be morons to give him that contract. But it is the Steelers.

 

[pistolpete11]

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with the whole "draft, develop, and trade before you have to pay them big $$$" strategy when it comes to WR. The positions prices have skyrocketed and rookies are more pro-ready then ever coming out. And our track record at drafting them is pretty good, although I think having #7 all those years had a big part to do with it. This was the main argument for not paying DJ in the first place.

Like I said earlier, it would be a bigger problem if we were cap strapped or needing to pay our rookie QB a $200m contract soon. But he signed a team friendly (compared to what comparable WR's got that year) short term extension. I just don't think our offense, as currently constructed, can stand to lose another playmaker for the upcoming season.

This might actually be one rare instance where I want to see PFF run blocking grades. I'm not going to pretend to have analyzed all the run blocking snaps he had this year. I know the Bengals game was egregious, but is there any merit to the notion that DJ is a complete 0 in the run blocking department?

Like I'm not completely dismissing the idea that DJ isn't an Arthur Smith's type of WR. What I do find unlikely is that the same decision makers are going to do a 180 shortly after paying him for a middling kind of return.

You keep focusing on 'subtracting' DJ, but everybody that is suggesting that is saying to then 'add' a FA and a draft pick.

I don't know where to find grades on stuff like that, but come on. DJ avoids contact even when he has the ball. You think he's out there throwing blocks?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

They'd be morons to give him that contract. But it is the Steelers.

Well it's more that it's Tomlin who will go to the mat for Harris.

He seriously thinks of Najee as his son. The fact he overcame adversity, yadda yadda is more important than what a person puts on tape. I've said this before, but if you nail your pre draft interview with Tomlin and you're available, but you kinda suck/bounced around the league, you will likely end up on the Steelers at some point in your career.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They'd be morons to give him that contract. But it is the Steelers.

Guy has gotten over 1000 yards every year with a crappy o line and no threat at Qb why would they be morons to pay him that chump change

 

[JTG]

Johnson's effort, or lack there of, for spurts of time is what drives me insane about him. Not finishing routes. Not chasing loose balls. Not playing even remotely close to the whistle when he run blocks. He's not a bad player. I wouldn't even call him a lazy player. He's just wildly inconsistent.

Guy has gotten over 1000 yards every year with a crappy o line and no threat at Qb why would they be morons to pay him that chump change

Because they don't have to.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Guy has gotten over 1000 yards every year with a crappy o line and no threat at Qb why would they be morons to pay him that chump change

Because he's going to be 28 when his deal starts and power backs like him regularly fall off a cliff at about that age.

 

[WickedWrister]

You keep focusing on 'subtracting' DJ, but everybody that is suggesting that is saying to then 'add' a FA and a draft pick.

I don't know where to find grades on stuff like that, but come on. DJ avoids contact even when he has the ball. You think he's out there throwing blocks?

Because addressing WR in Free Agency is arguably an even worse value proposition than letting DJ play out his contract. You're just simply not getting your money's worth at that position.

 

[MrBrightside]

Because he's going to be 28 when his deal starts and power backs like him regularly fall off a cliff at about that age.

His comps of Sanders and Conner don't support the argument the way he thinks they do. Sanders is 26 and appears to be washed. Keep Najee two more years and move on - this just reinforces why it was so dumb to use a 1st on that position.

 

[WickedWrister]

I gotta say, the amount of people that want to replace DJ with Mack Hollins is shocking.








Now that's how you strawman.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

His comps of Sanders and Conner don't support the argument the way he thinks they do. Sanders is 26 and appears to be washed. Keep Najee two more years and move on - this just reinforces why it was so dumb to use a 1st on that position.

Miles isn’t washed he just went to Carolina a team that won 2 game all season snd had no offensive talent

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Guy has gotten over 1000 yards every year with a crappy o line and no threat at Qb why would they be morons to pay him that chump change

Jesus, the Harris debate again. This has been proven over and over that Harris is a "volume" back, not a "productive" back. Getting 1k yards in a 17 game season isn't impressive like it once was considering the amount of carries he gets. This is the FIRST time he's gone over 4.0 yards per carry his entire career and he ended with 4.1. Plan the f***in parade for him!

He can't take it to the house, DC's don't get scared when Harris is on the field, he's not dynamic, etc.
He's a person that you can take nearly any other RB in the NFL and get similar or better results.

Harris is Just A Guy (JAG). Nothing special. Nothing exemplary about his game. End of debate

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The ravens literally say to beat the Steelers you have to stop Najee only 11 rbs got over 10000 yards last season and he was 100 away from 2nd in the league behind Cmc

Ravens On A Mission To Stop Najee Harris: 'When You Shut Him Down, Their Team Shuts Down'

I’m not quite sure Baltimore Ravens ILB Patrick Queen received the reaction he thought he might the other day when he revealed his grievance with Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin. In case you missed it, Tomlin supposedly yelled at him that he’s not a Raven when he was on the Steelers’...

steelersdepot.com

 

[pistolpete11]

Because addressing WR in Free Agency is arguably an even worse value proposition than letting DJ play out his contract. You're just simply not getting your money's worth at that position.

But you're getting 2 for 1 with the FA and draft pick for about the same money.

That's 2 shots at helping to replace his production, creating a deeper WR corp if they both work out, that fit the offense better if you target the right guys, and is a longer term solution than keeping DJ for 1 year.

 

[MrBrightside]

The ravens literally say to beat the Steelers you have to stop Najee only 11 rbs got over 10000 yards last season and he was 100 away from 2nd in the league behind Cmc

Ravens On A Mission To Stop Najee Harris: 'When You Shut Him Down, Their Team Shuts Down'

I’m not quite sure Baltimore Ravens ILB Patrick Queen received the reaction he thought he might the other day when he revealed his grievance with Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin. In case you missed it, Tomlin supposedly yelled at him that he’s not a Raven when he was on the Steelers’...

steelersdepot.com

Well this mindset explains your absolute devotion to Mike Tomlin.

 

[Pens1566]

The ravens literally say to beat the Steelers you have to stop Najee only 11 rbs got over 10000 yards last season and he was 100 away from 2nd in the league behind Cmc

Ravens On A Mission To Stop Najee Harris: 'When You Shut Him Down, Their Team Shuts Down'

I’m not quite sure Baltimore Ravens ILB Patrick Queen received the reaction he thought he might the other day when he revealed his grievance with Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin. In case you missed it, Tomlin supposedly yelled at him that he’s not a Raven when he was on the Steelers’...

steelersdepot.com

And that strategy went 0-2 this year.