Value of: Scandella or Brodin to Toronto

[oilerbear]

What's up with the Borodin stuff? Inside joke you're only aware of?

As far as all the other stuff you've said in this thread, no one has suggested a 1 for 1 trade for those players that you seem to object to so much.

Wild fans are aware we'd be adding to the defender to get the 1C type we are looking for most likely. But if those players are completely off the board as suggested in the OP, our needs aren't being met and there isn't much discussion to have.

Just like the other 12 times this exact same scenario has played out on HFBoards.

Playoff spots are garnered by generating .31 GF/60 more than GA.
So the Dman sets the Baseline of the GF needed.

Dmen do not drive Even or PP GF.
the contribute 7% of offence to the top end of the game.

Dmen do however Affect 82.2% of the variance in teams total GA in the league.
the last thing you want is awanderimng fool of a Dman who generates offence 2- 4 times less efficiently than forwards.

You want the Best GA d in the game. so the bottom end forwards can outscore the Defence.

Faulk 2.85 EVGA/60
2.85 + .31 = 3.16 GF/60 needed from forwards to have a chance at a playoff spot.
Only 5 forwards can outscore his D.
so you would need 3 of Benn, Mcdavid; Seguin; Palat; Tarasenko. good luck with the cap.
I refer to these awesome offensive D as playoff/cap killers.

Rielly 2.75; 3.06 required for shot at WC spot.
11 forwards can out score him.

Nash - Crosby - Kane cannot achieve WC playoff potential with the above 2 D. (Faulk; Rielly)


Byfuglien 2.64; 2.95 required for shot at WC spot
23 forwards can outscore his defence.

Brodin 1.74; 2.05 required for shot at WC spot.
268 forwards can. most teams top 9
a line of
tlusty - bolland - fehr
can achieve WC spot chance with brodins D.

Scandella 1.77; 2.08 required for a wild card spot.
King- Gagner - Jooris can generate enough to be WC eligble.

Your comment told me you do not understand how to win a cup.

A reporter said to 2 time cup winnig D Doughty
"your team does not score a lot."
his response;
"I guess we will have to get good at preventing goals."

he said it with the most sarcastic tone.
that suggested " are you stupid?"

 

[57special]

Wow, I actually understood one of Oilerbears posts!

 

[rynryn]

i know...the more you read them, the more sense they make.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Really? You think Borodin has the same value as Msthews Marner and Nylander?

Alexander Borodin was a heck of a composer, I don't how Msthews, Marner and Nylander's music composing skills are.

Jokes apart, Jonas Brodin is a mighty fine 23 yo defenseman, signed at $4.2 for the next five seasons (till the end of the 20-21 seasons) and seeing how difficult it is to get valuable young defensemen and how much they fetch (see at the very extreme spectrum the Hall/Larsson trade) these days, I would say that the only one of the three you mentioned with more value is Matthews.

 

[gwh]

Playoff spots are garnered by generating .31 GF/60 more than GA.
So the Dman sets the Baseline of the GF needed.

.....

Dmen do not drive Even or PP GF.
the contribute 7% of offence to the top end of the game.

.....

Dmen do however Affect 82.2% of the variance in teams total GA in the league.

This.

Start zone normalized, on ice high danger scoring changes against is a much better variable though.

EVGA includes

1. The goalie's performance.

2. The d pair's other party's performance

These make comparisons between teams very tricky.

 

[redwings25]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

This guy gets it.

 

[Goose312]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

They have Parise, 6-7 2nd liners, and Zucker (maybe Haula). With Stewart on the 4th and finally having blue chip prospect(s) they have depth guys to fill in on the top 9 for injuries. LHD is overloaded, RHD has enough balance and depth. Unless a trade has a top line forward coming back that doesn't play the left side there's just nothing else of interest.

 

[MNRube]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

Yup. Don't need middle-6 upside prospects either. We have youth coming in Tuch, Eriksson Ek, Kunin, Greenway and Kaprizov. Leafs have a ton of good assets, but Wild do not need depth. We need to unload our depth for bonafide stars in anything. Thus the claims that we really only need Matthews/Marner/Nylander and obviously the Leafs would never give them up. Maybe a deal around JVR, but even that feels redundant, even if JVR is a very good player.

 

[Twoods1623]

The last 3 posts are spot on in our situation. Granted Brodin is my favorite player on the wild because of the little things he does on the ice night in and night out that stats can't show. Given that he has the potential to be a top 2 guy on a team and being able to play the left or the right side very easily, I believe he has as much value as Marner and Nylander. It's understandable that Toronto doesn't want to trade any of their big assets since they're pretty deep in that area and are playing for the future. But if you guys keep asking for a top 4 d now with potential to be the top guy in a D corps you aren't going to be able to just offer your 4th-10th prospects for them that will maybe play top 9 mins in the NHL based on their potential. If Toronto wants nothing to do with giving up one of the big 2 then there is no point in bringing this up again.

 

[one77]

You think any other Leafs players do?

Umm JVR? Kadri? Komarov? Gardiner? Don't get ahead of yourself

 

[one77]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

So JVR is what you're looking for. Kadri would also look great on the Wild.

I wouldn't trade JVR for Brodin though. Not straight up. And I'm a big Brodin fan...

 

[Goose312]

So JVR is what you're looking for. Kadri would also look great on the Wild.

I wouldn't trade JVR for Brodin though. Not straight up. And I'm a big Brodin fan...

JVR is a redundancy with Parise already on the LW. Kadri isn't top line talent.

 

[57special]

i know...the more you read them, the more sense they make.

Is this a sign we are spending too much time on HFB ?

 

[57special]

So JVR is what you're looking for. Kadri would also look great on the Wild.

I wouldn't trade JVR for Brodin though. Not straight up. And I'm a big Brodin fan...

You keep him then, and defense be damned. It's worked great for you guys so far, what?

 

[DANOZ28]

until expansion is over i dont see my wild making any big trades. we will probably leave scandella , brodin , zucker , dubnyk unprotected and if i were the vegas gm id pick a D man from that group. we cant afford to lose 2 core D men. just my one cent.

 

[57special]

Alexander Borodin was a heck of a composer, I don't how Msthews, Marner and Nylander's music composing skills are.

Jokes apart, Jonas Brodin is a mighty fine 23 yo defenseman, signed at $4.2 for the next five seasons (till the end of the 20-21 seasons) and seeing how difficult it is to get valuable young defensemen and how much they fetch (see at the very extreme spectrum the Hall/Larsson trade) these days, I would say that the only one of the three you mentioned with more value is Matthews.

Bruin's fans get it. They are in the unfamiliar position of having no defense, and despite some of their stellar two way forwards and excellent goaltending, are paying the price. I still think that they are a natural trade partner for the Wild( as is EDM. Larson is good, but they still need D help), but who knows with Sweeney in charge? He has made some unwise moves, IMO.

Going into a game without a sound Defense is like going out in public without your underwear and a bad case of diarhea.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

JVR is a redundancy with Parise already on the LW. Kadri isn't top line talent.

I think our fanbase sells JVR short in these types of threads. If Nino and/or Coyle and/or Tuch put up JVR's numbers, we'd all be pretty damn thrilled. The issue is that he's going to want a 7x$7M deal in 2 years at 29 years old. Not something I'd be too excited about. However, for the next 2 years, this forward lineup looks pretty good.

Parise - Staal - Coyle
JVR - Koivu - Granlund
Nino - Haula - Pommer
Zucker - Whoever - Stewart

Of course, we now run into expansion draft issues with both our forwards and defense.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I think our fanbase sells JVR short in these types of threads. If Nino and/or Coyle and/or Tuch put up JVR's numbers, we'd all be pretty damn thrilled. The issue is that he's going to want a 7x$7M deal in 2 years at 29 years old. Not something I'd be too excited about. However, for the next 2 years, this forward lineup looks pretty good.

Parise - Staal - Coyle
JVR - Koivu - Granlund
Nino - Haula - Pommer
Zucker - Whoever - Stewart

Of course, we now run into expansion draft issues with both our forwards and defense.

Most fan bases sell JVR short. A post of mine from another thread:


JVR is a top 10 goals per game LW over the past 3 years and 16th in points per game over the same period. He is 1st line LW 100%. He is top 25 goals per game for all skaters in the past 3 years.


Also do people actually think Brodin will become a top pairing defender?

 

[nickschultzfan]

I think our fanbase sells JVR short in these types of threads. If Nino and/or Coyle and/or Tuch put up JVR's numbers, we'd all be pretty damn thrilled. The issue is that he's going to want a 7x$7M deal in 2 years at 29 years old. Not something I'd be too excited about. However, for the next 2 years, this forward lineup looks pretty good.

Parise - Staal - Coyle
JVR - Koivu - Granlund
Nino - Haula - Pommer
Zucker - Whoever - Stewart

Of course, we now run into expansion draft issues with both our forwards and defense.

If my family already has 4 cars, it doesn't matter how great a 5th car, or how great a deal, I am wasting my time talking to the salesman.

Wild already have Parise, Nino, Zucker, and Granlund as Left Wings.

Talking to any team about bringing in another LW is a huge waste of time and resources.

 

[Twoods1623]

Brodin already was a top pairing defenseman. This year Suter wanted a right handed shot with him so they put him down with Dumba when he was struggling. So he was in babysit mode for half the year when Dumba wasn't playing so hot. Granted Brodin didn't have a great year but I still think he is going to be a top pairing guy for hopefully the wild. The thing I wish he could do is translate his skating ability into more offensive production. That's the only thing holding him back from being a for sure top pairing guy this year.

 

[redwings25]

Also do people actually think Brodin will become a top pairing defender?

he played first line with suter on mn his first couple years, would prolly be 1st line with the wings right now. guess thats not saying much with the wings d though.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Alexander Borodin was a heck of a composer, I don't how Msthews, Marner and Nylander's music composing skills are.

Jokes apart, Jonas Brodin is a mighty fine 23 yo defenseman, signed at $4.2 for the next five seasons (till the end of the 20-21 seasons) and seeing how difficult it is to get valuable young defensemen and how much they fetch (see at the very extreme spectrum the Hall/Larsson trade) these days, I would say that the only one of the three you mentioned with more value is Matthews.

I don't think you can you can use one example of a desperate team that made an AWFUL deal and say this is the market now.

That's a one off and if it's not it won't happen again for YEARS

 

[57special]

I don't think you can you can use one example of a desperate team that made an AWFUL deal and say this is the market now.

That's a one off and if it's not it won't happen again for YEARS

First off, i think Hall is overrated, and Larson underrated. Secondly, if EDM is desperate, shouldn't TML be also? There is virtually no risk with Brodin, a talented Dman who has been an NHL regular for years now and is just entering his prime.

Yet Marner or Nylander are sure fire, can't miss 1st liners? Really?

Mathews I get. The other two have to prove it.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

wild are a team with 3 solid second lines and 4 solid d men +dumba,reilly,folin and olofsson. the only things they need are top end talent to make a real first line and maybe a plug to play on 4th line. plugs are cheap in fa.

Top end talent really isnt traded any more. You've gotta draft and develop. Minny isnt really doing this with a 4 pick 2016 draft.

Im guessing that minny fans arent really looking at the leafs prospect pool, because its incredibly deep.

If i were you id be dam interested in guys like Bracco, Timashov, Johnsson, Brown. Definitely mystery boxes, but these guys really could pay off huge.