Value of: Scandella or Brodin to Toronto

[gwh]

Funny how all these people inquire about our mediocre Dmen.

The time to trade these mediocre D men is after the draft, when there will be plenty of desperate roster holes to plug.

Wild is 8 deep, so in any case we have top4, pair of 3rd pair prospects (Reilly/Folin) plus 7th in Olofsson. That s after LV takes the garbage Brodin, that has such poor stats.

Zero reason to make the trade right now. Much better value in next June.

 

[Maukkis]

It depends on the circumstance regarding how valuable their 1st exposed asset v. the 2nd exposed asset. To keep up with the money analogy if their best 2 exposed assets are a dollar and 50 cent piece then it would make more sense to sell the dollar for a protected 3 quarters and lose the 50 cents than it would be to just lose the dollar. You'd be down 75 cents instead of the dollar.

That being said in a league where there are 28 other teams you could likely get more for the dollar than just the 3 quarters, and in the Wild case doesn't fit that analogy anyway since trading the dollar(defenceman) is going to have them still expose 95 cents(another defenceman or someone like Coyle).

Yet some people don't understand that so these threads happen over and over and over.

If you're willing to do a deal with Vegas in the first place to protect an additional player for stuff, he's most likely important enough so that you couldn't find a good enough deal for him. It's sometimes better to sacrifice something else to keep those important guys.

As for this trade, Toronto fans need to look at it like this. Minnesota will lose two of their top 4 guys, should they trade one now. They could alternatively lose Coyle or Granlund and keep the remaining four defensemen. Or... just take the hit, lose one defenseman and roll with what they have. In this case, you have to pay the price of one top 4 defenseman and Minnesota having a crippled top 4 after the expansion draft. That's not a price anyone wants to pay. Wild fans aren't also wrong in asking for high amounts because of that.

Deep teams suffer in the expansion, sure, but there's a reason for that. They can take the hit and walk away reasonably fine.

 

[Canada4Gold]

If you're willing to do a deal with Vegas in the first place to protect an additional player for stuff, he's most likely important enough so that you couldn't find a good enough deal for him. It's sometimes better to sacrifice something else to keep those important guys.

As for this trade, Toronto fans need to look at it like this. Minnesota will lose two of their top 4 guys, should they trade one now. They could alternatively lose Coyle or Granlund and keep the remaining four defensemen. Or... just take the hit, lose one defenseman and roll with what they have. In this case, you have to pay the price of one top 4 defenseman and Minnesota having a crippled top 4 after the expansion draft. That's not a price anyone wants to pay. Wild fans aren't also wrong in asking for high amounts because of that.

Deep teams suffer in the expansion, sure, but there's a reason for that. They can take the hit and walk away reasonably fine.

My post wasn't talking about a deal with Vegas. What I was referring to is if your best unprotected asset is worth way more than you 2nd best unprotected asset trading them elsewhere for 75%(or whatever you can get) of what they're worth if the next best asset you're going to lose is only worth half of the best unprotected asset you just traded.

Working with the dollar analogy you lose 25 cents in the trade, but then only lose 50 cents in expansion, losing 75 cents total instead of the full dollar you stood to lose initially in expansion.

I also said given 28 other teams to deal with you could probably get more than 75% of said value in a trade.

I then went on to say this doesn't relate to Minnesota though as their 2nd best unprotected asset is almost as good as their first. But it could make sense in some situations.

 

[nickschultzfan]

It's a seller's market when it comes to proven NHL Dmen 25 and under. They are rare, cost controlled, and haven't even entered their blue liner prime.

Trash Wild Dmen all you want to try to lower the trade cost, but they have extensive, high quality minutes in both the regular season and playoffs, and have been the strongest part of the Wild for they last several seasons.

So, you are going to have to pay to get. Unless you are Vegas. Screw those guys.

 

[Sharppi]

There's no deal to be made with Toronto, thank you and goodbye.

 

[Brock Radunske]

There's no deal to be made with Toronto, thank you and goodbye.

Agreed.
Whether you buy into analytics or not, the Leafs do so I don't think they'd target a guy like Brodin.

 

[Goose312]

What would Minnesota want for either Brodin or Scandella?

Off the table:
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Rielly
Any first round picks unless a serious add from Minnesota

Is there a deal to be made?

It's the same thing with every Toronto thread. JVR isn't of enough value to the Wild because it's not a need, Kadri isn't worth those guys and the Wild don't want a pile of lesser pieces. The actually valuable guys are off the table. I'm not saying Brodin or Scandella would be worth any of those guys, but the Wild aren't interested in a bunch of expendable players for key pieces of their D corps. Tronoto just doesn't have pieces that are valuable enough for a young top 4 defender without giving up someone more valuable.

 

[rynryn]

I think coaches will have a pretty big impact on the decision. Might be obvious enough that we get our answer as to who is being shopped right after camp. Or maybe they're all close enough (under the new coaches) that it remains open ended. Either way I think it's been printed that BB and Stevens especially are eager to coach all our young D. There's only so much TOI--if everything goes according to plan they want to cut first pairing minutes and divide things more evenly. If things don't go according to plan they might find it's more cost effective to trade off the under-utilized defenseman for something else, even if it doesn't look like great value in a vacuum. Could be surprised. For now though I'd expect we head into the season with all our D.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's the same thing with every Toronto thread. JVR isn't of enough value to the Wild because it's not a need, Kadri isn't worth those guys and the Wild don't want a pile of lesser pieces. The actually valuable guys are off the table. I'm not saying Brodin or Scandella would be worth any of those guys, but the Wild aren't interested in a bunch of expendable players for key pieces of their D corps. Tronoto just doesn't have pieces that are valuable enough for a young top 4 defender without giving up someone more valuable.

The problem is guys like Brodin and Dumba aren't worth a Marner or A Nylander or a Reilly and they sure as hell aren't worth Mathews.

You sit there and you say we aren't bringing enough to the table but yiu also aren't bringing enough value to justify the asking price.

Surely you have to know you are asking for WAY better pieces than you are giving up.

 

[Goose312]

The problem is guys like Brodin and Dumba aren't worth a Marner or A Nylander or a Reilly and they sure as hell aren't worth Mathews.

You sit there and you say we aren't bringing enough to the table but yiu also aren't bringing enough value to justify the asking price.

Surely you have to know you are asking for WAY better pieces than you are giving up.

There's the problem with your assumption. The Wild aren't asking. We have no interest in anything you have because it's either A. too expensive or B. of no interest. You are the ones asking.

Again, Brodin and Scandella aren't worth those off the table guys, but outside of those guys (and JVR to some teams) none of your players are worth anything of value. If you take the off the table guys out of the equation entirely, you have to know you are asking for WAY better pieces than what you are giving up.

 

[4thline]

There's the problem with your assumption. The Wild aren't asking. We have no interest in anything you have because it's either A. too expensive or B. of no interest. You are the ones asking.

Again, Brodin and Scandella aren't worth those off the table guys, but outside of those guys (and JVR to some teams) none of your players are worth anything of value. If you take the off the table guys out of the equation entirely, you have to know you are asking for WAY better pieces than what you are giving up.

I get what you're saying but that's not quite fair. Desirable to fans (who on HF seem to find the idea of being on the receiving end of a package deal abhorrent despite how often they actually go down) and having value are not the same. Many a deal has happened for a collection of depth players, late 1st's/ 2nds, and B+/non bluechip prospects. Most deals actually.

That being said however I get what others are saying about not wanting to lose a forward or the 4th d.

 

[howkie]

The problem is guys like Brodin and Dumba aren't worth a Marner or A Nylander or a Reilly and they sure as hell aren't worth Mathews.

You sit there and you say we aren't bringing enough to the table but yiu also aren't bringing enough value to justify the asking price.

Surely you have to know you are asking for WAY better pieces than you are giving up.

If Leafs dangle Nylander for one of Wilds D-man, I´m pretty sure anyone is up for grabs, except Suter, cuz I doubt he waivs for Leafs. But atm you only offer what I call "deadline ammo", aka prospects that are used to get players around deadline. Just because Leafs has the best pool dosen´t mean everything is shiny. Besides the big 3, nothing else would make me trade an established good young d-man. Same thing with Jets, besides Connor, Laine Morrissey and maybe Hellebuyck, what else is of real intresse?

 

[Curufinwe]

The time to trade these mediocre D men is after the draft, when there will be plenty of desperate roster holes to plug.

Wild is 8 deep, so in any case we have top4, pair of 3rd pair prospects (Reilly/Folin) plus 7th in Olofsson. That s after LV takes the garbage Brodin, that has such poor stats.

Zero reason to make the trade right now. Much better value in next June.

The Flyers will have an open protection slot for a dman if they don't re-sign MDZ, and we should have some pretty good prospects who will exempt from the ED. I think Brodin would be a good fit in Philly since he's young and plays the right side.

I've always wondered about this thought process. Why do people think teams will give their players away for scraps rather than let Vegas take them? Wouldn't they all be better off to make some sort of deal with LV management to not take x guy and we'll give you these other shiny things instead? Seems like a much more attractive proposition to a GM than trading dollar bills for 3 quarters.

If you're Vegas and you really want a guy like Brodin as your player from the Wild, why would you agree not to take him without receiving significant compensation?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If Leafs dangle Nylander for one of Wilds D-man, I´m pretty sure anyone is up for grabs, except Suter, cuz I doubt he waivs for Leafs. But atm you only offer what I call "deadline ammo", aka prospects that are used to get players around deadline. Just because Leafs has the best pool dosen´t mean everything is shiny. Besides the big 3, nothing else would make me trade an established good young d-man. Same thing with Jets, besides Connor, Laine Morrissey and maybe Hellebuyck, what else is of real intresse?

I personally believe Kapsnen has some value not saying he would be enough but he has some value the guy is out 4-6th prospect yet he would bea top 3 any almost any other team.

A deal. could include Kapenan

 

[Twoods1623]

No thank you

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Toronto wouldn't take B assets for A assets and the Wild wouldn't trade B assets for C assets.

No trade here. As usual.

 

[Incetardis]

In what world is Kadri not close value to a Scandella or Brodin? Both are decent second pairing guys with little to no offensive upside. Kadri is a solid 2way C in his prime signed to a sweetheart contract. You put him with some decent wingers he'll score 60 points. The Wild are paper thin at C. With an aging koivu and still young Granlund probably better suited in the wing as their 2 best options adding Kadri seems like a no brainer. Strategically, if you're building your team for the expansion draft (how exciting to blow a year based on losing 1 non essential player the following year ��) then I guess it might not make sense but purely for a value and team need perspective it makes a lot of sense. And for the record I'd rather keep kadri and see what kind of damage he can do with some of the kids

 

[Spazkat]

If you're Vegas and you really want a guy like Brodin as your player from the Wild, why would you agree not to take him without receiving significant compensation?

If Vegas really had their heart set on Brodin vs the other defender the Wild will expose there probably isn't much they can do do deter them. As Wild fans have pointed out however, they have 2 solid defenders that will be unprotected and if they are looking more for "top 4 defenseman" vs Brodin specifically, it probably wouldn't be all that hard to convince Vegas to take the other one and also a pick yes?

 

[Doc300c]

How many times does it have to be posted that the Wild aren't asking for anything from the Leafs.

This is a discussion board. If you don't want to be involved in the discussion don't post anything.

Way to ruin all the fun of it.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

In what world is Kadri not close value to a Scandella or Brodin? Both are decent second pairing guys with little to no offensive upside. Kadri is a solid 2way C in his prime signed to a sweetheart contract. You put him with some decent wingers he'll score 60 points. The Wild are paper thin at C. With an aging koivu and still young Granlund probably better suited in the wing as their 2 best options adding Kadri seems like a no brainer. Strategically, if you're building your team for the expansion draft (how exciting to blow a year based on losing 1 non essential player the following year ��) then I guess it might not make sense but purely for a value and team need perspective it makes a lot of sense. And for the record I'd rather keep kadri and see what kind of damage he can do with some of the kids

The Wild already have centers that can't score a goal. Don't need to spend assets on another one.

 

[Goose312]

In what world is Kadri not close value to a Scandella or Brodin? Both are decent second pairing guys with little to no offensive upside. Kadri is a solid 2way C in his prime signed to a sweetheart contract. You put him with some decent wingers he'll score 60 points. The Wild are paper thin at C. With an aging koivu and still young Granlund probably better suited in the wing as their 2 best options adding Kadri seems like a no brainer. Strategically, if you're building your team for the expansion draft (how exciting to blow a year based on losing 1 non essential player the following year ��) then I guess it might make sense but purely for a value and team need perspective it makes a lot of sense. And for the record I'd rather keep kadri and see what kind of damage he can do with some of the kids

That's really downplaying Brodin and Scandella as players. Brodin spent 3 years as a top pair defender and had the worst starts in the league after Greene and Larsson last year. Bruce also specifically said how excited he is to be able to coach Brodin specifically which speaks highly of his idea of his potential.

Yeah, you put middle 6 centers with top line wings and they are going to get more points. Signing Staal made taking more middle 6 C's redundant. Now they have 3 set centers and 2 guys who can fill in when injuries dictate. Add Kadri and where does he fit? He's not supplanting Staal or Koivu. So it's him vs. Haula. Haula is free, and after Yeo got canned finally got time outside of 4th line grinder time and put up 25 points in 33 games while going from 3rd to 2nd to 1st line time and was arguably the best forward on the roster in the playoffs.

The Wild's needs in terms of center have changed due to the Staal. They now need exclusively a 1C capable player or prospect to supplant Koivu when his contract expires, no more stopgap players. Kadri isn't that. They are most likely developing from within, which is why they are drafting centers like crazy. If they end up making a trade it will be a big one for a big player that fans believe to be untouchable, not a mediocre one for a mediocre player that fans view as expendable.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Toronto, we wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors.

 

[OCPenguin]

What would Minnesota want for either Brodin or Scandella?

Off the table:
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Rielly
Any first round picks unless a serious add from Minnesota

Is there a deal to be made?

So, you don't want to give up anything of note for a pretty good Dman in Brodin? How typical of a Toronto fan. No deal to be made here IMO.

 

[Cotton]

So, you don't want to give up anything of note for a pretty good Dman in Brodin? How typical of a Toronto fan. No deal to be made here IMO.

Minnisota doesn't have the pieces necessary to land one of those players of "note" without damaging their roster to the point of it not being worth it to them. Nor would they even be in the top 10 of teams I'd want to trade with for one of said prospects.

But if we are talking about top-4 D, there are assets we have that could get it done. If they are of interest to their fans is another matter.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Minnisota doesn't have the pieces necessary to land one of those players of "note" without damaging their roster to the point of it not being worth it to them. Nor would they even be in the top 10 of teams I'd want to trade with for one of said prospects.

But if we are talking about top-4 D, there are assets we have that could get it done. If they are of interest to their fans is another matter.

No there isn't.

Wild fans don't want to trade with the Leafs because there isn't anything the Wild need other than the so called "untouchables"

So, this is a thread started by Leafs fans where other Leafs fans join to "talk down" the Wild Dman and other Leafs fans join to say "Leafs have good assets besides the top guys", mixed with a bunch of Wild fans either defending their young Dmen or saying "move along."