Value of: Scandella or Brodin to Toronto

[howkie]

You're saying that with players like JVR, Kadri, Gardiner and our expansive prospect pool available, there isn't a deal to be made?

OK bud.

Do you see anyone that is on the table that has the chance to be a number 1 center? I dont so, how hard can it be?

Give something they want instead off offering a bunch a stuff they dont need..

 

[deletethis]

Brodin: worst possession numbers among regular Wild defenders, poor offensive numbers and a tad overpaid for effectively a 3rd pairing defender. His trade value ain't high.

 

[Homesick]

Do you see anyone that is on the table that has the chance to be a number 1 center? I dont so, how hard can it be?

Give something they want instead off offering a bunch a stuff they dont need..

I didn't see a player that has a chance to be a legit top pairing defenseman either

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Neither of these guys are a top pairing defender and with Gardiner a shoe in on the 2nd pairing I don't see the reason in trading for one of these guys until we see how Zaitsev performs.

 

[oilerbear]

What would Minnesota want for either Brodie or Scandella?

Off the table:
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Rielly
Any first round picks unless a serious add from Minnesota

Is there a deal to be made?

75% of goals come on avg 10.5 HSAC shots in a game.
HSCA is the 17% of ozone are in front of the net.
You may have seen the video of Tmac's Team NA HSCA practice attacking and Defending in the tight spaces.

top 30 HSCA d 7.5 to 8.6 Shots
top 60 HSCA D 8.6 to 10.1 shots
61-120 HSCA D 10.00 to 11.50 Shots
bottom 60 11.50 to 12.50 Shots
bottom 30 12.50 + Shots.

Brodin top 15 HSCA D 7.85 shots.
Scandaella top 30 HSCA D 8.40 Shots
Rielly bottom 5 HSCA D 13.5+ shots.

with a #10 save % goalie like Bernier .874
7.85 X (1.000 - .874) = .99 GA/60
8.40 X (.126) = 1.06 GA/60
13.55 X (.126) = 1.71 GA/60
brutal HSCA d gets brutal GA/60

#25 HSCA goalie F. andersson .862 (1.000-.862) = .138
7.85 X .138 = 1.08 GA/60
8.40 X .138 = 1.16 GA/60
13.55 x .138 = 1.87 GA/60

#40 HSCA goalie Enroth .856 (1.000 - .856) = .144
7.85 X .144 = 1.13 GA/60
8.40 X .144 = 1.21 GA/60
13.55 X .144 = 1.95 GA/60

here is the thing:
Brodin's HSCA D results in #10 Evga/60 1.74 last 3 years
.38 better than average.
254 forwards can score 2.05 (1.74 + .31) needed for a chance at Wild Card spot.

Scandella's HSCA d results in #16 EVGA/60 1.79 last 3 years.
.33 better than average.
254 forwards can score 2.10 (1.79 + .31) needed for a chance at WC spot.

2.11 is the average EVGA/60.
So forwards need to genearate 2.42 to have a chance at WC spot.
Dmen set the baseline for GF production for forwards to be competitive.
so brutal HSCA D no playoffs!

The GF/60 needed from a forward to have the same playoff chance affect.
Brodin
2.11 + .38 + .31 = 2.79
You need a 2.79 EVGF/60 Forward to maintain the same chance at a WC spot.
there were 53 forwards in the game who achieved that in the last 3 years.
Toronto does not have one.
though a Mathews or a Marner might get to that point.

Players like
Pastarnak 2.79
Kuznetsov; Toews 2.81
Hoffman; Wheeler; Duchene; Pavelski 2.82

think of the classic phrases.
"drive the net"
"you win championships form the net out and down the middle."

G
Dmen
Centers

You look at almost all the cup winners they have .
1. HSCA D System coach ;
Babcock; Quenville; Deboer; Tmac.....

2. top 10 HSCA savce% goalie.
#1 Price .889
#2 Talbot .886
#3 Holtby
#4 Halak
#5 Jones
#6 Elliott; Allen
#8 Crawford; Lundquist
#10 Bernier; Schnieder

3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D
Lovejoy; Dumoulin; Cole
Hjarlmasson; Oduya; Kieth
Muzzin Martinez;voynov; Greene; Mitchell; Doughty
Hjarlmasson; Oduya; Rosival
Muzzin; Scuderi; Mitchell; Voynov; Doughty; Martinez
Hjarlmasson; Sopel; Campbell; Seabrook

4. 2 #1 or 3 top (150 forwards) evg/EVp production lines.
Malkin; Crosby; HBK

5. +ve goal differential Pk/PP

the game is GF = (GA +.31) - GA for any shot at the playoffs.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Do you see anyone that is on the table that has the chance to be a number 1 center? I dont so, how hard can it be?

Give something they want instead off offering a bunch a stuff they dont need..

Do you see anything being offered by the Wild that would return a #1 C?
I don't.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Do you see anything being offered by the Wild that would return a #1 C?
I don't.

Nothing is being offered. It's being asked about.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Do you see anything being offered by the Wild that would return a #1 C?
I don't.

Not a single Wild fan has even offered a counter. Because the conversation is pointless, it's been had a dozen times in the past 3 months and nothing's changed.

Wild want a 1C/ someone with 1C potential. And basically aren't interested in anyone that doesn't meet that description.

 

[4thline]

Sounds like MN has a very well thought out plan with the expansion draft that involves keeping all the D they have and coming out of the expansion draft with a good top 4 D still in tact, although after losing one of these guys for free.

But, if they trade one of these guys... they lose the other one for free instead... leaving them with a big hole in the top 4.

Hmm interesting. You'd have to think though if a sufficient and exempt return was out there for one of the d was available they'd take that and go 4+4 no?

Lose one of the big d for nothing
vs.
lose 5th best forward but recoup major assets

 

[ThatGuy22]

Hmm interesting. You'd have to think though if a sufficient and exempt return was out there for one of the d was available they'd take that and go 4+4 no?

Lose one of the big d for nothing
vs.
lose 5th best forward but recoup major assets

If you've got the number of a GM planning on trading an exempt forward, that's worth the return of a top 4 D i'm sure Fletcher is all ears.

 

[scan15*]

Maybe some expansion exempt, close to NHL ready prospects and picks.

Brown/Soshnikov/Tymashov(though he isn't NHL ready)/Bracco(not NHL ready) + Loov/Valiev + 2nd round pick

 

[howkie]

Do you see anything being offered by the Wild that would return a #1 C?
I don't.

But what do you think they want then? I doubt wilds has no problem pony up any of their d-men to get what they want, but since you dont offer that wilds wont listen. Do you think any team will send a quality d-man for a collection off lesser pieces? No every team want the good stuff. Oilers paid with Hall, What will Leafs pay with?

 

[Vashanesh]

I didn't see a player that has a chance to be a legit top pairing defenseman either

Completely irrelevant point, that adds nothing to the conversation.

A fan of a team comes to us, and asks for players we're not going to trade unless we get something we very clearly need, then removes the only examples of those players from the table. Why does that suddenly mean our players need to be **** on by you?

We simply aren't going to trade from a position of strength and create a position of weakness (after the expansion draft), unless it also solves an existing position of weakness. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Hmm interesting. You'd have to think though if a sufficient and exempt return was out there for one of the d was available they'd take that and go 4+4 no?

Lose one of the big d for nothing
vs.
lose 5th best forward but recoup major assets

With Parise, Koivu and Pominville having NMC's, our "5th best forward" is going to be either Niederreiter or Coyle, which means we would very likely lose the other one. If the choice is losing one of Niederreiter/Coyle vs. one of Brodin/Scandella, I choose to keep the forwards, let Vegas take their pick of the defensemen, and go forward with Suter/Spurgeon/Dumba and whichever LHD remains.

 

[Wabit]

Hmm interesting. You'd have to think though if a sufficient and exempt return was out there for one of the d was available they'd take that and go 4+4 no?

Lose one of the big d for nothing
vs.
lose 5th best forward but recoup major assets

Wild would probably lose their 3rd best FWD in a 4+4. NMC's on Parise, Koivu, and Pommer to account for. So Nino or Coyle would be exposed.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Maybe some expansion exempt, close to NHL ready prospects and picks.

Brown/Soshnikov/Tymashov(though he isn't NHL ready)/Bracco(not NHL ready) + Loov/Valiev + 2nd round pick

Pass.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

But what do you think they want then? I doubt wilds has no problem pony up any of their d-men to get what they want, but since you dont offer that wilds wont listen. Do you think any team will send a quality d-man for a collection off lesser pieces? No every team want the good stuff. Oilers paid with Hall, What will Leafs pay with?

The oilers made an incredibly stupid trade, that doesn't give Borodin the same value

 

[PuckInTheNards]

Ah good... another thread where Toronto fans try to poach one of our good young D-men for spare parts (and yes, JVR and Kadri qualify as spare parts to the Wild). The only pieces of interest are the pieces you don't want to give up.

Wild's roster is essentially set (for better or worse). No trade with the Leafs to be had.

 

[ThatGuy22]

The oilers made an incredibly stupid trade, that doesn't give Borodin the same value

What's up with the Borodin stuff? Inside joke you're only aware of?

As far as all the other stuff you've said in this thread, no one has suggested a 1 for 1 trade for those players that you seem to object to so much.

Wild fans are aware we'd be adding to the defender to get the 1C type we are looking for most likely. But if those players are completely off the board as suggested in the OP, our needs aren't being met and there isn't much discussion to have.

Just like the other 12 times this exact same scenario has played out on HFBoards.

 

[StevenB]

Ah good... another thread where Toronto fans try to poach one of our good young D-men for spare parts (and yes, JVR and Kadri qualify as spare parts to the Wild). The only pieces of interest are the pieces you don't want to give up.

Wild's roster is essentially set (for better or worse). No trade with the Leafs to be had.

I wouldn't mind giving up Marner or Nylander if it mean getting a defender that has top 2 potential and is likely to reach it. For Scandella (top 4) and Borodin (second/third pairing), that's just not going to happen.

 

[Keeptdos]

Hmm interesting. You'd have to think though if a sufficient and exempt return was out there for one of the d was available they'd take that and go 4+4 no?

Lose one of the big d for nothing
vs.
lose 5th best forward but recoup major assets

You realize we have to protect already 3 F?
Koivu, Parise and Pominville. Our top 9 barely has any depth. If we protect only 4 F we leave exposed most likely Nino and Coyle who we can't afford to lose due to no depth with top9 ability. Staal and Pominville aren't long term solutions.

Now our D side:
Suter - Spurgeon
Scandella - Brodin
Rielly - Dumba
Olofsson/Folin

You see the trend? We can afford to lose one of our top4D. We can't risk losing two. But we can also do the quantity for quality which every fan base loves like D+F for 1C. I mean I could just throw a weak proposal for any of your talent...

edit:edited

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

You're saying that with players like JVR, Kadri, Gardiner and our expansive prospect pool available, there isn't a deal to be made?

OK bud.

lol @ expansive:

Maybe some expansion exempt, close to NHL ready prospects and picks.

Brown/Soshnikov/Tymashov(though he isn't NHL ready)/Bracco(not NHL ready) + Loov/Valiev + 2nd round pick

Yeah, I think the Wild will hang onto their cost-controlled young D instead of that 'expansive' list of assets.

This has been your typical Leafs trade proposal thread, brought to you by OP.

 

[Brock Radunske]

]lol @ expansive[/B]:



Yeah, I think the Wild will hang onto their cost-controlled young D instead of that 'expansive' list of assets.

This has been your typical Leafs trade proposal thread, brought to you by OP.

I think I missed the joke?

 

[Brock Radunske]

But what do you think they want then? I doubt wilds has no problem pony up any of their d-men to get what they want, but since you dont offer that wilds wont listen. Do you think any team will send a quality d-man for a collection off lesser pieces? No every team want the good stuff. Oilers paid with Hall, What will Leafs pay with?

I didn't offer anything.
I just replied to the poster who said outside of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly/1st, the Leafs couldn't put a package together for one of Brodin or Scandella

 

[scan15*]

I think I missed the joke?

Just massive delusions from people who think a 2nd pair D deserves a blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick or, laughably, a 1C.