Value of: Scandella or Brodin to Toronto

[Dr Jan Itor]

Just massive delusions from people who think a 2nd pair D deserves a blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick or, laughably, a 1C.

Nobody is saying this.

But if you're knocking on someone else's door and asking for their players, there's no need to be insulted because the response isn't your 7th best and 12th best prospects.

We're going to hold out for a deal that we can't say "no" to, and if Toronto doesn't want to put it on the table, no harm no foul, we'll go our separate ways.

 

[57special]

Funny how all these people inquire about our mediocre Dmen.

 

[scan15*]

Nobody is saying this.

But if you're knocking on someone else's door and asking for their players, there's no need to be insulted because the response isn't your 7th best and 12th best prospects.

We're going to hold out for a deal that we can't say "no" to, and if Toronto doesn't want to put it on the table, no harm no foul, we'll go our separate ways.

A lot of responses here have been 1C or no dice. Which is downright delusional.

I do get that the idea of receiving multiple lesser assets for one larger asset is unappealing. But if I was a Wild fan, I would give serious consideration to every semi reasonable deal because I am worried about losing Brodin for nothing.

I offered any forward prospect out of the big 3, a second and a throw in expansion exempt 20 year old defenceman with AHL experience. There is no reason to call that offer a joke.

 

[scan15*]

Funny how all these people inquire about our mediocre Dmen.

Well, I see a Nichushkin thread almost every week. Even our own Tyler Bozak occasionally draws interest. Doesn't mean that they are more than mediocre.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

A lot of responses here have been 1C or no dice. Which is downright delusional.

I do get that the idea of receiving multiple lesser assets for one larger asset is unappealing. But if I was a Wild fan, I would give serious consideration to every semi reasonable deal because I am worried about losing Brodin for nothing.

I offered any forward prospect out of the big 3, a second and a throw in expansion exempt 20 year old defenceman with AHL experience. There is no reason to call that offer a joke.

It's not delusional, it just is what it is. We don't have an incentive to accept a "fair deal" for middle six center, or B level prospects, or good prospects have a chance at developing into top 6 centers, or whatever, because that is what he have an abundance of. Koivu, Haula and Staal now, Granlund and Coyle if necessary, Eriksson Ek and Kunin in the pipeline. If a team isn't going to put a top center (or close to it) on the table and let us try to work something out, there isn't much to discuss.

The offer isn't a joke, in a vacuum, but situationally, it doesn't do much for us at this time. If our center position was situated, I'd absolutely give consideration to JVR. He's a very good player, but just plays the wrong position.

As for losing Brodin in the expansion draft, we're going to lose a good player and there's no easy way to get around that. I think a lot of us are accepting the idea of losing a good defenseman, but still being able to go forward with a good d-corps. Sucks, but that's the price you pay for $17 million.

Expansion wise, our options are:
1. Trade one defenseman, protect 4 defensemen, leave Coyle/Nino unprotected.
2. Trade two defensemen and potentially blow a hole in our top 4.
3. Trade no defensemen, lose one for nothing but keep all of our important forwards and go forward with still a pretty talented top 4 and see if our D prospects and fill in the blanks.

Right now, I still choose option #3.

 

[Canada4Gold]

This thread goes the exact same way every single time, yet people still start them

 

[Halla]

JVR (50%) and Komarov (50%).

haha no.
unless they wanna send Dumba AND brodin?

 

[Vashanesh]

This thread goes the exact same way every single time, yet people still start them

At least we're not the only ones that feel that way. Genuinely, I was starting to worry, so thank you for that.


We don't particularly care if other fans see us as "delusional" for not taking what they're oh-so-generous to offer (when we've been clear it's not what we want).

If any team in the NHL wants one of our top-4, it's going to be for a very good center, and the pieces around that to make that happen are the only thing worth discussing.

 

[Halla]

What's up with the Borodin stuff? Inside joke you're only aware of?

As far as all the other stuff you've said in this thread, no one has suggested a 1 for 1 trade for those players that you seem to object to so much.

Wild fans are aware we'd be adding to the defender to get the 1C type we are looking for most likely. But if those players are completely off the board as suggested in the OP, our needs aren't being met and there isn't much discussion to have.

Just like the other 12 times this exact same scenario has played out on HFBoards.

you arent getting a 1C with any of those guys, unless the add is significant. What team is gonna move a 1C type for a top 4 D?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

you arent getting a 1C with any of those guys, unless the add is significant. What team is gonna move a 1C type for a top 4 D?

And nobody said that, in this scenario, we wouldn't be willing to add.

 

[McSuper]

Funny how all these people inquire about our mediocre Dmen.

I don't think most are calling them mediocre D . I think fans think a top pairing D = #1C . Going with this as a bases Wild fans ask for a potential #1C for a top 4 D . Now with prospects there are risk that they don't reach their potential so I can see the argument from both sides . ! other thing Brodin stats just don't look good . I know Wild fans will argue that stats don't tell the whole story which is true but they can not be outright discarded either .

To me Brodin = 2nd and a prospect or another pick . As an Oiler fan I would be ok with adding him . He could play with his fellow country men . But I would not trade any of our C for him .

It fine for fan bases to disagree but you have to try and see it from the others team side as well . As fans have pointed out with expansion the Wild will lose one D and can't afford a 2nd loss so value is moot . I understand this from the Wild point of view .

Red Wings fans don't often agree with Oilers fans but they are classy about it . Wild fans seen to start taking shots at the other team . I think most fans on HF can learn from the Red Wings classy fans

 

[Halla]

And nobody said that, in this scenario, we wouldn't be willing to add.

but wild fans wants quality for quality if they are moving a dman for anything other than a 1C, but wanna give quantity for quality if they are acquiring a 1C? not gonna happen.

wild should just do the Dumba + for RNH deal

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

but wild fans wants quality for quality if they are moving a dman for anything other than a 1C, but wanna give quantity for quality if they are acquiring a 1C? not gonna happen.

wild should just do the Dumba + for RNH deal

And now you're talking in circles.

There was a significant $ gap in the RNH/Dumba deal, and no realistic way to bridge it.

 

[Spazkat]

Funny how all these people inquire about our mediocre Dmen.

Welcome to the HF trade boards. Ask about your guy, then take the next 12 pages to go on about all the ways he sucks. But they'll take him off your hands anyways for this bag of pucks and a day old sandwich, which you should be glad to get because your player sucks so much.

 

[Halla]

And now you're talking in circles.

There was a significant $ gap in the RNH/Dumba deal, and no realistic way to bridge it.

Nope. one of the first posters said they will only give up quality for quality, no quantity deals so a 1 for 1.
but then wild fans want a 1C and are willing to give up a top 4 dman and add significantly to get it. cant have it both ways

also

Dumba + Zucker = 4.55M
RNH + prospect = 6M

 

[Halla]

Welcome to the HF trade boards. Ask about your guy, then take the next 12 pages to go on about all the ways he sucks. But they'll take him off your hands anyways for this bag of pucks and a day old sandwich, which you should be glad to get because your player sucks so much.

and on the flip side, if you ask about anyone of any value on a other team, be prepared to get counter offers of your teams absolute best players and or prospects.

leafs fans are expected to give up matthews,nylander or marner regardless of who they want. a top 4 dman before the expansion draft isnt gonna be that hard to get

 

[LV*]

Brodin will come cheap, but he's a huge step down from Rielly and Gardiner. He is a third pairing Dman, so do we really want to spend assets on an overpaid bottom pairing D? No. We can use those assets towards building a package for a top four RHD.

 

[Vashanesh]

and on the flip side, if you ask about anyone of any value on a other team, be prepared to get counter offers of your teams absolute best players and or prospects.

leafs fans are expected to give up matthews,nylander or marner regardless of who they want. a top 4 dman before the expansion draft isnt gonna be that hard to get

Then by all means, look elsewhere.

Wild fans have been thoroughly clear that there isn't a deal to be made. Yet Leafs fans keep posting threads like this, and then taking a dump all over us when we don't bend over backwards to graciously take what's offered.

We won't trade a defensemen if the offer doesn't include a good center. Period. Done. If that trade doesn't materialize? Fine, we'll stick with what we have and be perfectly fine with better defensive depth than center depth. It's basically where this franchise has been for years now. We're not going to create a new gaping hole without filling an old gaping hole.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Really? You think Borodin has the same value as Msthews Marner and Nylander?

Came here hoping for a sweet Brodin/Boromir photoshop

 

[scan15*]

but wild fans wants quality for quality if they are moving a dman for anything other than a 1C, but wanna give quantity for quality if they are acquiring a 1C? not gonna happen.

wild should just do the Dumba + for RNH deal

I don't think that deal will be on the table anymore in a few weeks.

 

[Spazkat]

and on the flip side, if you ask about anyone of any value on a other team, be prepared to get counter offers of your teams absolute best players and or prospects.

leafs fans are expected to give up matthews,nylander or marner regardless of who they want. a top 4 dman before the expansion draft isnt gonna be that hard to get

I've always wondered about this thought process. Why do people think teams will give their players away for scraps rather than let Vegas take them? Wouldn't they all be better off to make some sort of deal with LV management to not take x guy and we'll give you these other shiny things instead? Seems like a much more attractive proposition to a GM than trading dollar bills for 3 quarters.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I've always wondered about this thought process. Why do people think teams will give their players away for scraps rather than let Vegas take them? Wouldn't they all be better off to make some sort of deal with LV management to not take x guy and we'll give you these other shiny things instead? Seems like a much more attractive proposition to a GM than trading dollar bills for 3 quarters.

It depends on the circumstance regarding how valuable their 1st exposed asset v. the 2nd exposed asset. To keep up with the money analogy if their best 2 exposed assets are a dollar and 50 cent piece then it would make more sense to sell the dollar for a protected 3 quarters and lose the 50 cents than it would be to just lose the dollar. You'd be down 75 cents instead of the dollar.

That being said in a league where there are 28 other teams you could likely get more for the dollar than just the 3 quarters, and in the Wild case doesn't fit that analogy anyway since trading the dollar(defenceman) is going to have them still expose 95 cents(another defenceman or someone like Coyle).

Yet some people don't understand that so these threads happen over and over and over.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Under the assumption that the expansion team takes a defenceman from the Wild I wonder what Las Vegas would want for a trade for whoever they take. No doubt they draft some players just to trade them, not sure if they would do that with what will probably be their best defenceman, though they'll possibly get a good dfenceman from the Isles as well.

Whoever they get from Minnesota and NYI(assuming it's a defenceman) I'd bet there will be some great offers from other teams to immediately flip them. While a deal around Kadri doesn't work for Minnesota, who knows, maybe in a years time it might work for Las Vegas. Though they could just build around Brodin or whoever, he's young and that would work as well. Just interesting to see what route they take because it's a 2nd chance for teams to get their offers in for a player the Wild declined said offers for.

 

[Vashanesh]

Under the assumption that the expansion team takes a defenceman from the Wild I wonder what Las Vegas would want for a trade for whoever they take. No doubt they draft some players just to trade them, not sure if they would do that with what will probably be their best defenceman, though they'll possibly get a good dfenceman from the Isles as well.

Whoever they get from Minnesota and NYI(assuming it's a defenceman) I'd bet there will be some great offers from other teams to immediately flip them. While a deal around Kadri doesn't work for Minnesota, who knows, maybe in a years time it might work for Las Vegas. Though they could just build around Brodin or whoever, he's young and that would work as well. Just interesting to see what route they take because it's a 2nd chance for teams to get their offers in for a player the Wild declined said offers for.

There was a thread on the main boards listing likely picks based on likely protection, and LV will likely be able to get 6 or 7 top-4 D. Forwards are much thinner, which lends itself to your idea of flipping them.

The expansion draft has the potential to really shake up the depth of 10-15 teams. It'll be interesting to see if it's more shuffling from team A > LV, or A > LV > B.

 

[NotYou]

I don't think most are calling them mediocre D . I think fans think a top pairing D = #1C . Going with this as a bases Wild fans ask for a potential #1C for a top 4 D . Now with prospects there are risk that they don't reach their potential so I can see the argument from both sides . ! other thing Brodin stats just don't look good . I know Wild fans will argue that stats don't tell the whole story which is true but they can not be outright discarded either .

To me Brodin = 2nd and a prospect or another pick . As an Oiler fan I would be ok with adding him . He could play with his fellow country men . But I would not trade any of our C for him .

It fine for fan bases to disagree but you have to try and see it from the others team side as well . As fans have pointed out with expansion the Wild will lose one D and can't afford a 2nd loss so value is moot . I understand this from the Wild point of view .

Red Wings fans don't often agree with Oilers fans but they are classy about it . Wild fans seen to start taking shots at the other team . I think most fans on HF can learn from the Red Wings classy fans

I agree that we have a few posters who take irrelevant, and frankly stupid, cheap shots at other teams. They tend to be over sensitive like you said as well.

As for the rest, our teams only real hole is a 1c. Adding other pieces would be cool if they were free, obviously. Outside of that another second liner isn't along because there's only so much ice time to give out. We're better off keeping all the dmen than trading one for fair value.

Tons of people from all fan bases, inc ours, struggle mightily with this general concept. It gets annoying. The other option is to just call them unavailable but that'd be stupid too.