Value of: Scandella or Brodin to Toronto

[scan15*]

Need to keep in mind that it's really easy to ruffle the feathers of Minnesota fans.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Top prospects ALWAYS turn out, especially for Toronto and EDM. We know this, because they tell us that, and they know everything about hockey.

Not all that much worse than "Mikael Granlund (sort of) busted, so your fans shouldn't get too excited about your promising young player."

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Lefties

EDIT: Actually, I forgot about Polak/Carrick. Still, the Leafs would do better to find a top-4 RHD.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Despite what Granlund has accomplished at the NHL level thus far(or lack there of), by the end of his 19 year old season he had two PPG SM-Liiga seasons, including being the leading scorer in the playoffs for the SM-Liiga champions HIFK, and was point per game (tied for 3rd in Tourney for Points) for the Gold Medal winning Finland at the World Championships.

He hasn't lived up to the hype in the NHL, but few recent prospects had better resumes leading to the hype. He was basically a consensus top 5 prospect(often fighting Tarsenko for 1) by the time he turned 20.

No one can deny Granlund's skill but many people suspected that he'd have difficulty replicating those results in the NHL because of his sub-par skating.
While he's improved somewhat in that area, its still the case.
Speed/agility/skating are some of Nylanders greatest assets and that's a reason why he has transitioned so well

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

No deal

Reilly and Gardiner have locked two LHD spots....Marincin and Hunwick are serviceable this year.
Best Leaf Dman prospects are LHD Valiev and Dermot.

RHD...Zaitsev...24 year old KHL all star. Think he going surprise and be a long term player for the Leafs.
Connor Carrick...22 years old....3 years in AHL with some time in the NHL. Looks like he can make it too.
Polak and Corrado the other two spots this year.

Leafs will probably do something before the Vegas draft. (I believe the Leafs will protect 5 Dmen), but right now, the Leafs will dance with their current players.

 

[10coach*]

Brodin: worst possession numbers among regular Wild defenders, poor offensive numbers and a tad overpaid for effectively a 3rd pairing defender. His trade value ain't high.

It is VERY high.

 

[Brock Radunske]

It is VERY high.

Sounds like you're describing the physical state a GM would have to be in to pay what the Wild want for him

 

[gwh]

Ok, close thread.

This is disgusting.

 

[rynryn]

in the very vigorous effort to trade off JVR have TOR fans ever come across a proposal from another fanbase (not just one odd fan) that they were comfortable with? Just curious. I know you can say the same thing about any number of players, but please remember when you make these threads Wild fans aren't actively trying to get rid of Scandella or Brodin. I'm fairly certain our GM isn't either.

 

[gwh]

Honestly, I d think they have no idea of valuation of anything... The standings track record is worse than edmonton after the salary cap arrived.

I hear screams from the dumpster. Faint and desperate, all hope lost.

(And JVR's market valuation is pretty much mid 1st plus 2x 2nd.)

 

[defensorfidei]

What would it take from Dallas to Land Brodin?

 

[Sharppi]

What would it take from Dallas to Land Brodin?

Lets revisit that after the expansion draft. We currently have 5 top-4 defenseman, and probably 4 after the expansion draft. If for some reason, lets say Reilly steps up, so that we have 5 top-4 defenders after the expansion draft, we can revisit the idea.

 

[Goose312]

What would it take from Dallas to Land Brodin?

And face Klingberg-Brodin for the next 6+ years? I say good day sir.

Needs don't change. Young-ish top line forward who doesn't play the left side, or prospect on a trajectory for that role. Brodin isn't enough for a 1x1 trade likely.

 

[scan15*]

Honestly, I d think they have no idea of valuation of anything... The standings track record is worse than edmonton after the salary cap arrived.

I hear screams from the dumpster. Faint and desperate, all hope lost.

(And JVR's market valuation is pretty much mid 1st plus 2x 2nd.)

It's fun getting insulted by fans of a team which epitomizes mediocrity.

 

[57special]

It's fun getting insulted by fans of a team which epitomizes mediocrity.

Coming from a Leaf's fan? That's pretty funny.

 

[57special]

What would it take from Dallas to Land Brodin?

Only way it's happening is if we totally slay you in a trade. DO NOT want to face a Dallas team with a more solid defense. Brodin and Klingberg would be scary, with Kljngberg jumping in as a fourth forward at will.

Course, you have to do something about those goalies.

 

[gwh]

Coming from a Leaf's fan? That's pretty funny.

Mediocre would be an achievement for the leafs.

Maybe it is a thinly veiled compliment?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Coming from a Leaf's fan? That's pretty funny.

Mediocre would be an achievement for the leafs.

Maybe it is a thinly veiled compliment?

As a Leafs fan, I'm greatly looking forward to the first few seasons on mediocrity. Its been a while

 

[roon]

I love how everyone trashing on Brodin is completely ignoring this post.

75% of goals come on avg 10.5 HSAC shots in a game.
HSCA is the 17% of ozone are in front of the net.
You may have seen the video of Tmac's Team NA HSCA practice attacking and Defending in the tight spaces.

top 30 HSCA d 7.5 to 8.6 Shots
top 60 HSCA D 8.6 to 10.1 shots
61-120 HSCA D 10.00 to 11.50 Shots
bottom 60 11.50 to 12.50 Shots
bottom 30 12.50 + Shots.

Brodin top 15 HSCA D 7.85 shots.
Scandaella top 30 HSCA D 8.40 Shots
Rielly bottom 5 HSCA D 13.5+ shots.

with a #10 save % goalie like Bernier .874
7.85 X (1.000 - .874) = .99 GA/60
8.40 X (.126) = 1.06 GA/60
13.55 X (.126) = 1.71 GA/60
brutal HSCA d gets brutal GA/60

#25 HSCA goalie F. andersson .862 (1.000-.862) = .138
7.85 X .138 = 1.08 GA/60
8.40 X .138 = 1.16 GA/60
13.55 x .138 = 1.87 GA/60

#40 HSCA goalie Enroth .856 (1.000 - .856) = .144
7.85 X .144 = 1.13 GA/60
8.40 X .144 = 1.21 GA/60
13.55 X .144 = 1.95 GA/60

here is the thing:
Brodin's HSCA D results in #10 Evga/60 1.74 last 3 years
.38 better than average.
254 forwards can score 2.05 (1.74 + .31) needed for a chance at Wild Card spot.

Scandella's HSCA d results in #16 EVGA/60 1.79 last 3 years.
.33 better than average.
254 forwards can score 2.10 (1.79 + .31) needed for a chance at WC spot.

2.11 is the average EVGA/60.
So forwards need to genearate 2.42 to have a chance at WC spot.
Dmen set the baseline for GF production for forwards to be competitive.
so brutal HSCA D no playoffs!

The GF/60 needed from a forward to have the same playoff chance affect.
Brodin
2.11 + .38 + .31 = 2.79
You need a 2.79 EVGF/60 Forward to maintain the same chance at a WC spot.
there were 53 forwards in the game who achieved that in the last 3 years.
Toronto does not have one.
though a Mathews or a Marner might get to that point.

Players like
Pastarnak 2.79
Kuznetsov; Toews 2.81
Hoffman; Wheeler; Duchene; Pavelski 2.82

think of the classic phrases.
"drive the net"
"you win championships form the net out and down the middle."

G
Dmen
Centers

You look at almost all the cup winners they have .
1. HSCA D System coach ;
Babcock; Quenville; Deboer; Tmac.....

2. top 10 HSCA savce% goalie.
#1 Price .889
#2 Talbot .886
#3 Holtby
#4 Halak
#5 Jones
#6 Elliott; Allen
#8 Crawford; Lundquist
#10 Bernier; Schnieder

3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D
Lovejoy; Dumoulin; Cole
Hjarlmasson; Oduya; Kieth
Muzzin Martinez;voynov; Greene; Mitchell; Doughty
Hjarlmasson; Oduya; Rosival
Muzzin; Scuderi; Mitchell; Voynov; Doughty; Martinez
Hjarlmasson; Sopel; Campbell; Seabrook

4. 2 #1 or 3 top (150 forwards) evg/EVp production lines.
Malkin; Crosby; HBK

5. +ve goal differential Pk/PP

the game is GF = (GA +.31) - GA for any shot at the playoffs.

 

[57special]

As a Leafs fan, I'm greatly looking forward to the first few seasons on mediocrity. Its been a while

I actually liked the way the Leafs played last year. They just need talent now. I don't blame them for not wanting to trade either Marner or Nylander. Just like i don't blame the Wild for not wanting to trade a top 4 D for anything but a top prospect.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Are those guys an upgrade over Tuch Eriksson etc? Nope, you dont trade good d-men for some prospects you can get in every draft. Those are add on when you get players at deadline.
Some leaf fans got the cheerleading affect goin when they talk about their prospects. You got 3 top prospects. Rest are not stand outs in any way....

If you are content with being the most average team in the league, then continue doing what your doing because its working.

Point being judging your prospect pool and the actual depth on the roster, the only way your going to find some talent is by taking a gamble here and there.

 

[member 157595]

I love how everyone trashing on Brodin is completely ignoring this post.

Uh, I wouldn't be using that post to prove a point. Trust me.

Brodin's a good player.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

If you are content with being the most average team in the league, then continue doing what your doing because its working.

Point being judging your prospect pool and the actual depth on the roster, the only way your going to find some talent is by taking a gamble here and there.

Ahhh... and now we're to the point in the thread where Toronto fans, butt hurt at having their trade proposal rebuffed, resort to insulting the opposing team and its fans. Gotta love the consistency.

 

[GuerinUp]

No one can deny Granlund's skill but many people suspected that he'd have difficulty replicating those results in the NHL because of his sub-par skating.
While he's improved somewhat in that area, its still the case.
Speed/agility/skating are some of Nylanders greatest assets and that's a reason why he has transitioned so well

Nylander has played 22 games in the NHL. Not quite sure how you can make a blanket statement on a transition with not even 1 full season in the pros.

 

[howkie]

If you are content with being the most average team in the league, then continue doing what your doing because its working.

Point being judging your prospect pool and the actual depth on the roster, the only way your going to find some talent is by taking a gamble here and there.

Of course Wilds would gamble, but besides the big 3 and maybe Brown, there is not much to gamble on. Players like Bracco, Kapanen, Timashov etc etc are in every draft. They need top end talent.. not depth atm...