Game 7 SCF - Would you rather have Peak Crosby or Current McDavid?

[nowhereman]

There are dozens of players I would take over Crosby, and McDavid is definitely one of them.

"Dozens", lmfao. Suuuure...

 

[Regal]

As of today, Crosby has a legitimate case for #5 all-time. There are several players who are in contention for that spot, but he might have a stronger case than anybody else. (I fully expect McDavid will pass him, sooner or later).

But one thing that's always bugged me about Crosby's resume is underwhelming numbers in the Stanley Cup finals. 20 points in 25 games is, frankly, disappointing for a player of his calibre. Most of the other top ~20 forwards look better (Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Beliveau, Hull, Lafleur, Trottier, Bossy, Messier, Clarke, Mikita, Sakic, etc.) scored at a higher rate, with many of them being substantially higher. The same is true of some of his peers (even if Crosby is a better playoff performer overall - Ovechkin, Kane, Kucherov, Zetterberg, etc).

There are a few counter-arguments - 25 games is a small sample size. He was a good two-way player. And this was during a lower scoring era than today. All those points are valid - but I don't know if that explains such weak output.

Even with this weakness, Crosby is still probably the top playoff performer of the post-lockout era, and he's arguably #5 all-time (until McDavid most likely passes him). But this is a legit weakness in his resume.

While it’s a fair criticism in his career assessment, I think ultimately the people focusing on it here are off base. There’s nothing inherently about the finals that suggests the larger sample should be ignored. And it was also the case when McDavid only had 1 point through 2.5 games as well. Just take the better player and/or the player whose skillset/intangibles serve a team best in the playoffs. At this point I think that’s shown to be McDavid. But I think Crosby was certainly capable of a great cup finals. He just didn’t have it.

 

[GreeningOil]

Crosby had Malkin. Last night, mcdavid seemed like the only capable oiler.
He was also good defensively on top of his 4 points.
Drai looked like a pylon.

Drailon

 

[Video Nasty]

There are a few counter-arguments - 25 games is a small sample size. He was a good two-way player. And this was during a lower scoring era than today. All those points are valid - but I don't know if that explains such weak output.

The counter arguments are weak. 25 games is plenty. The guy played in 4 Finals. What we saw is what he was capable of. 2 goals and 14 points in 19 games during the 3 Cups Pittsburgh won. McDavid scored 2 goals the other night. As many as Crosby scored in 19 games post age 22. Come on, can we be done worshipping this false idol? He’s an all-time great, no question about it, but he was never going to be Gretzky and Lemieux, and frankly, never came close, even for one season.

Scoring being up by up to 15% isn’t going to magically give Crosby double the goals and points to his totals, which is what some seem to be implying every time they bring this up.

I don’t mind Crosby being argued anywhere from #6-#12. I’d put him no lower than 8 if I’m being honest and probably would put him at 6 when it’s all said and done. What I really like about him is he somehow ended up playing a full career, when there was so fear that he would retire early. Missed a big chunk of time for a little while and rebounded to likely play 1400+ games, a mark currently reached by just 42 NHLers. I like that a lot.

McDavid is top 5, regardless of how the rest of this series plays out. If it plays out the way every Penguins fan and Oilers hater fears, the debate is over forever in less than 96 hours.

 

[Realgud]

ESPN would pick Matthews over both

 

[Video Nasty]

ESPN would pick Matthews over both

That was such an all-time bad take by them. Matthews had 44 career playoff points when they wrote it. McDavid is likely to score that or much as an end result in this postseason. So bad.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Crosby is one of those guys that gets every free pass in the book given to them. He didn’t even play half of Game 7 against Detroit during Pittsburgh’s first win and underperformed during each and every Finals appearance, but sure, let’s pretend he’s this SCF god.

For someone who gets so much hype based on a moment (The so-called Golden Goal), he sure doesn’t have them in the Finals.

Nothing that even resembles what McDavid has done the past two games.

Do you have Crosby in your top 10 players of all time?

Half of your posts seem to be you just criticizing Crosby’s career for no reason and the other half is just basically McDavid glazing.

Genuinely curious to see where you have him ranked.

 

[Video Nasty]

Do you have Crosby in your top 10 players of all time?

Half of your posts seem to be you just criticizing Crosby’s career for no reason and the other half is just basically McDavid glazing.

Genuinely curious to see where you have him ranked.

#6-#8.

I have plenty of reasons for criticizing Crosby’s career and they mostly revolve around the lies and embellishments that others try to peddle to prop him up further. The rest is centered around one question.

Did you know I’m utterly insane?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Crosby, easily.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

As of today, Crosby has a legitimate case for #5 all-time. There are several players who are in contention for that spot, but he might have a stronger case than anybody else. (I fully expect McDavid will pass him, sooner or later).

But one thing that's always bugged me about Crosby's resume is underwhelming numbers in the Stanley Cup finals. 20 points in 25 games is, frankly, disappointing for a player of his calibre. Most of the other top ~20 forwards look better (Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Beliveau, Hull, Lafleur, Trottier, Bossy, Messier, Clarke, Mikita, Sakic, etc.) scored at a higher rate, with many of them being substantially higher. The same is true of some of his peers (even if Crosby is a better playoff performer overall - Ovechkin, Kane, Kucherov, Zetterberg, etc).

There are a few counter-arguments - 25 games is a small sample size. He was a good two-way player. And this was during a lower scoring era than today. All those points are valid - but I don't know if that explains such weak output.

Even with this weakness, Crosby is still probably the top playoff performer of the post-lockout era, and he's arguably #5 all-time (until McDavid most likely passes him). But this is a legit weakness in his resume.

Might want to re-check Howe's first 4 SCFs.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Crosby had Malkin. Last night, mcdavid seemed like the only capable oiler.
He was also good defensively on top of his 4 points.
Drai looked like a pylon.

Drai is hurt to be fair

 

[Caps8112]

use to be crosby. Its McD now without question. what he did on the Perry goal alone, in the stanley cup finals is just insane. That should never happen. When the series started I said Id be happy either way with who wins but now I want to see McD singlehandedly win the cup. If the oilers win it might be the best stanley cup final ever. Also not a slight to Crosby.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Drai is hurt to be fair

That is quite possible. Whatever the reason this series Edm has only had 1 of their stars going. Connor brown has also been great.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Might want to re-check Howe's first 4 SCFs.

To clarify, I was posting career totals (rather than totals from each player's first four SCF appearances - especially since several of the players I listed haven't even appeared in four finals ie Sakic, Clarke, Ovechkin, Kane, Kucherov - even Lemieux).

 

[Warden of the North]

I'll pick McDavid for the overwhelming raw talent. But I have hard time understanding how Crosby can be overrated. Overrated compared to who?? Sid has accomplished everything, everywhere, more than once. He's a freakin' legend on and off the ice.

Agreed.

We're entering Sidney Crosby is underrated territory at this point

 

[pi314]

McDavid has been playing at a 150 points/82 games pace in the playoffs since his first run.

At the same age Crosby had 114 points in 95 playoff games, McDavid has 117 in 72.

Him without a second thought.

They also shrunk goalie equipment in the middle of McDavid’s career.

So it’s not apples to apples.

We went from 1-2 guys breaking 100 points… some years none…

…to 15 guys doing it.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

McDavid and I'm not even close to second guessing it.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

#6-#8.

I have plenty of reasons for criticizing Crosby’s career and they mostly revolve around the lies and embellishments that others try to peddle to prop him up further. The rest is centered around one question.

Did you know I’m utterly insane?

Fair.

 

[Incognito]

*Malkin
*Kessel
*Malkin

Crosby had a Conn Smythe worthy playoffs of his own in 2009. His campaign was better than most recent winners of the trophy.

In 2016, I agree. There were better candidates for the award.

Crosby absolutely deserved the Smythe in 2017. No question about that.

 

[IceManCat]

87 is the better player


97 is the most exciting player I've ever seen outside of Pavel Bure (and no I am not insinuating that they are peers).

Over 4 SCF appearances, Crosby has produced at a 13 goal, 66 point per 82 game season pace.

Give me McDavid

Sample size / age

 

[bleedgreen]

This is actually a bit of a tough call for me. I firmly believe 97 is the better offensive player but this particular game may play into 87’s lane if it turned into a grinder. Which is how Florida would want to play it. Crosby is the most talented fourth line style guy ever.

In the end Mcdavid is having the most miraculous post season in 30 plus years so you have to give it to him. He’s gone too far to pull him. You can make a strong argument the next two possible games would benefit from what Crosby brings.

 

[MasterofGrond]

crosby is incredible

Mcdavid is otherworldly

 

[M88K]

With the entire world watching and with the media on his case…



Crosby scores the biggest goal of his generation. Give me 87

Looks like a world cup/Olympic game. so half the world at least wasn't paying attention

 

[Voight]

With the entire world watching and with the media on his case…



Crosby scores the biggest goal of his generation. Give me 87

Thanks to Iggy.

 

[centipede2233]

I gotta go with mcdavid, but I’d understand if people took Crosby to.