Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let Chef Allvin cook.
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theguardianII
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- Jan 30, 2020
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Forget Guentzel, use that money for Necas, Pinto and Dillion instead.
Trade Silovs and Podkolzin for Necas.
Trade Willander for Pinto, this is a win now team and Willander won't be around for another year or two yet. Gets Ottawa cap relief to sign the Tanevs'.
Offer Dillion 3 mil avg for 3 years, 5, 3, 1. If they got Dillion then make an AHL trade, Juulsen for a 5th, Pettersson to learn the NHL defence, call up.
The Canucks come away with two future centers, size and youth. Players with, Pinto 4 and Necas 7 years in the league, not rookies.
Replacement for Boeser whose next contract will conflict with Demko and the doubling of the OEL buyout.
Four balanced lines, three scoring lines. A team where it is possible that Blueger, Joshua and Garland are the 4th line.
No particular order;
Necas - EP - Hoglander
Boeser - Miller - Pinto
Garland - Joshua - Blueger
Aman - Karlsson - Suter
Hronek - Hughes
Dillion - Zadorov
Soucy - Myers
Pettersson
OR Silovs, ? and Garland for Voronkov, Marchenko/Chinakhov and Jirieck then sign Toffoli if he will come.
Again no particular lines just put the names out there.
Toffoli - EP -Hoglander
Boeser - Miller - Suter
Marchenko - Voronkov - Aman
Joshua - Blueger - Karlsson
Podkolzin
Hronek - Hughes
Jirieck - Zadorov
Soucy - Myers
Pettersson/Juulsen
Both trade teams need goaltending and Silovs showed he is ready in the playoffs, just like Demko did when he got his chance.
It will be a fun day to day, lots of action
Trade Silovs and Podkolzin for Necas.
Trade Willander for Pinto, this is a win now team and Willander won't be around for another year or two yet. Gets Ottawa cap relief to sign the Tanevs'.
Offer Dillion 3 mil avg for 3 years, 5, 3, 1. If they got Dillion then make an AHL trade, Juulsen for a 5th, Pettersson to learn the NHL defence, call up.
The Canucks come away with two future centers, size and youth. Players with, Pinto 4 and Necas 7 years in the league, not rookies.
Replacement for Boeser whose next contract will conflict with Demko and the doubling of the OEL buyout.
Four balanced lines, three scoring lines. A team where it is possible that Blueger, Joshua and Garland are the 4th line.
No particular order;
Necas - EP - Hoglander
Boeser - Miller - Pinto
Garland - Joshua - Blueger
Aman - Karlsson - Suter
Hronek - Hughes
Dillion - Zadorov
Soucy - Myers
Pettersson
OR Silovs, ? and Garland for Voronkov, Marchenko/Chinakhov and Jirieck then sign Toffoli if he will come.
Again no particular lines just put the names out there.
Toffoli - EP -Hoglander
Boeser - Miller - Suter
Marchenko - Voronkov - Aman
Joshua - Blueger - Karlsson
Podkolzin
Hronek - Hughes
Jirieck - Zadorov
Soucy - Myers
Pettersson/Juulsen
Both trade teams need goaltending and Silovs showed he is ready in the playoffs, just like Demko did when he got his chance.
It will be a fun day to day, lots of action
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So I count about 22.21
Silovs and Podkolzin will not get us Necas. Add a 1st or Lekkermaki and it may get them thinking. Willander for Pinto could work, but I really don't want to do that.
Basically in your scenario we end up trading our two best prospects to fill out the roster. I don't see that roster as being any better than what we can do via free agency without giving up these assets.
We are in win now mode for the next few years, but potentially longer if Miller holds out and our management group doesn't do anything stupid. We need as many rolls at the dice as we can, then we just hope our boys break through one year. Knowing we have two ELC players in Willander and Lekkermaki coming in as early as next year is big for the potential cap crunch we are going to be facing next year.
If Willander can fill in for Juulsen NEXT year, and is playing like a top 4 by playoffs, that's massive in terms of what it provides us in immediate benefit, as well as cap space for the following year when whichever RHD stop gap has their contract expire.
Lekkermaki could feasibly fill a roster spot by end of this season, and couple probably plug a top 6 spot NEXT season. That is huge with guys like Sutter and Boeser coming up soon.
In short, these are not guys we can afford to move if we're looking beyond this year.
Silovs and Podkolzin will not get us Necas. Add a 1st or Lekkermaki and it may get them thinking. Willander for Pinto could work, but I really don't want to do that.
Basically in your scenario we end up trading our two best prospects to fill out the roster. I don't see that roster as being any better than what we can do via free agency without giving up these assets.
We are in win now mode for the next few years, but potentially longer if Miller holds out and our management group doesn't do anything stupid. We need as many rolls at the dice as we can, then we just hope our boys break through one year. Knowing we have two ELC players in Willander and Lekkermaki coming in as early as next year is big for the potential cap crunch we are going to be facing next year.
If Willander can fill in for Juulsen NEXT year, and is playing like a top 4 by playoffs, that's massive in terms of what it provides us in immediate benefit, as well as cap space for the following year when whichever RHD stop gap has their contract expire.
Lekkermaki could feasibly fill a roster spot by end of this season, and couple probably plug a top 6 spot NEXT season. That is huge with guys like Sutter and Boeser coming up soon.
In short, these are not guys we can afford to move if we're looking beyond this year.
Guentzel at 9mil
Zadorov or Tanev at 5mil
Dillon or Myers at 3mil
3W at 2.9mil
Or, alternatively, without Guentzel:
Zadorov at 5mil
Tanev at 5mil
Dillon or Myers at 3mil
Joshua at 3.5mil
Toffoli at 4mil
It's looking like the money is there to fill out the roster. Now, we just need to wait for management to play their hand. I'm sure there are some guys they have eyes on that aren't even on most of our radar as well.
Zadorov or Tanev at 5mil
Dillon or Myers at 3mil
3W at 2.9mil
Or, alternatively, without Guentzel:
Zadorov at 5mil
Tanev at 5mil
Dillon or Myers at 3mil
Joshua at 3.5mil
Toffoli at 4mil
It's looking like the money is there to fill out the roster. Now, we just need to wait for management to play their hand. I'm sure there are some guys they have eyes on that aren't even on most of our radar as well.
I think Guentzel will cost like 9.75
somehow I think the max this management will pay Z is 4.5M
I suspect if we do land a guy like Guentzel, Garland will be on his way out, since it would leave us with an awfully small top 9 (Guentzel, Hoglander and Garland).
Something like:
Guentzel (9.5)-Pettersson-xxx
Suter-Miller-Boeser
Joshua (3.5)-Blueger-Hoglander
Di Giuseppe-Aman-Podkolzin
Hughes-Hronek
Soucy
Zadorov (4.75)
Friedman-Juulsen
Demko
Silovs (1M)
Leaves $8M for a top 4 dman, top 9 forward, bottom pair dman, and depth forward. Tight, but do-able - you could do something like Carrier ($3M), Amadio ($3M), Desharnais ($1M), and Motte ($775K).
Something like:
Guentzel (9.5)-Pettersson-xxx
Suter-Miller-Boeser
Joshua (3.5)-Blueger-Hoglander
Di Giuseppe-Aman-Podkolzin
Hughes-Hronek
Soucy
Zadorov (4.75)
Friedman-Juulsen
Demko
Silovs (1M)
Leaves $8M for a top 4 dman, top 9 forward, bottom pair dman, and depth forward. Tight, but do-able - you could do something like Carrier ($3M), Amadio ($3M), Desharnais ($1M), and Motte ($775K).
theguardianII
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Our two best may not be all that great compared to other prospects, not failures but lets not hype them up like they are Juloevi or Virtanen again
And this is a win now team. It appears to have taken on that style of trades, picks and prospects as a top echelon team. Managing to go for it.
With Hughes and Hronek signed for years Willander might be 26 before making the team.
Right now he has that "first round pick" going for him adding to his trade value.
Lettermaki might not fit Tocchet's style, remember he got Kuzmenko off the team because he wasn't physical enough but with the timelines of contracts and the cap Lettemaki might have a better chance to make the team.
Be prepared, winning teams often don't have deep prospect pools or great drafted players mostly due to draft position and they will trade away picks for wins now. Every winning team goes through the cycle.
Gillis team wasn't bad at picking good draft picks the draft, pick position and players already on the team kept new players from cracking the lineup
Trading a draft pick is really just trading time, the time it takes for a prospect to become a NHL player.
In trading picks or prospects for Necas or Pinto the team is trading for not just points but some stability and the years those players learned with another team.
Right now the Canucks have tendrils attached to Carolina, Pittsburgh and Columbus through Rutherford. Those three connections might help the team change some of its attribute or be more favourable towards Rutherford offers, the old boys club kind of stuff or mentor respect
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Baby Pettersson
Moderator
I often wonder if there's a slim chance we are targeting Reinhart.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I’m sure they have some contingency plans if things don’t pan out with Guentzel. Expect the unexpected with this group, too.
theguardianII
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9.75 for 37 year old winger but only 4.5 for a monster defender, likely the best in the playoffs on the Canucks in 3 years when the cap is over 100 million and 4th pairing guys are getting 4 mil.
Please don't limit the thoughts to today only, think of 4 years to the end of the contract and offering him that money every year instead.
Would you offer Staal 9.5 million now? Pavelski, Oshie, Dadonov? Not likely.
Forwards decline different than defencemen especially big defencemen.
4.5 million in 3 or 4 years is not enough for a 5/6 dman. The only reason to believe Zadorov can't be more is because of what is cherry picked to report, "look how many team he has played for" is a compliment if looked at it from a different perspective, if he was so bad why was he able to always play and always get raises?
5.5 should be easy and super cheap in year 5 or 6 after the cap has increased 35 million.
Size matters, see playoffs and defence wins games.
It is easier to win 3-2 games consistently than 8-7games.
Only one team ever bucked that trend, the old Oiler's team that had two 70 goals scorers, two 40 goal scorers and a 121 point defenceman
There might be a number of decent players bought out today too
If it was the other way around and he was targeting us i would say there might be a fit......but he's going to cost too much and I don't think he has the speed for the kind of game they want to play. elite hands and brain, but after watching most of Florida's playoff games it was pretty obvious that Barkov carries the water for that line like JT does for his line.
Really can't trade Hog at this point. We need all the efficient contracts we can get, and the guy has shown he can score 20g making peanuts and with no PP time. His cap value cannot be reasonably replaced.
Takumi3000
Registered User
lol no. You’re gonna have to add way more value to get Necas out of Carolina. Also Guentzel >>> Necas in the near term (where we are in our contention window). I’d rather take the star level winger (for free other than salary) over the top 6 winger (who will cost us all our prime assets). Necas should only be considered as a backup plan in case Guentzel does not choose us in FA
TruGr1t
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I'd imagine they'll touch base on any of the higher-end forward UFAs that hit the market, they need one fairly badly and obviously have the cap room now.
Having Depth is king, not sure blowing half there cap space on one guy and still having to fill the out there roster is smart but we shall see.
TruGr1t
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Thoughts on Jack Roslovic? Right-shot that can play both C/W, and AFP has him pegged at around 3x$3M. Scored at around 45 point pace over the past two seasons. Isn't great in the dot and not exactly a shutdown guy, but could bump Blueger down to 4C.
He’s really not a centre and definitely not a defensive guy. He’s best used as an offensive soft-minute winger.
TruGr1t
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Yeah, I think he played mostly wing for the Rangers? But he would add some footspeed. I guess Wennberg could be another option, though he's projected to be more expensive and he's another left shot.
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Depth is king to put elite talent over the top. We are short elite talent.
Unless there is something that leads management to believe his production wasn't repeatable - which i don't believe to be the case - to include Hoglander in a trade, something awfully good would have to be coming the other way.
People will point to the shooting percentage as a indicator of regression on the horizon, but unless he's all of a sudden going to stop going to the net, i don't see that happening. I mean you never really know until you get a couple season to confirm, but Hoglander broke out last year because his skating and shooting went up a level and he went to the net more aggressively than he has in the past.
If our hockey ops brain trust feel that this is not just repeatable, but there is another level to go, they should be extending him now, like the Panther's did with Verhaeghe as he was breaking out.
Something has to be sacrificed. We can't keep trotting out the likes of a one-legged Mikheyev with 11m Petey.
Guentzel is a known factor, same as Reinhart. They are worth sacrificing some depth for, as. uch as it sucks.
If they crash out on those guys, maybe they look at a cheaper option like Marchessault or DeBrusk, and have more room to fill out the roster?
Failing that Toffoli has had chemistry with EP in the past, though he sure seems to be on the downward swing of his career.
If the Canucks sign Guentzel & Toffoli & resign Zadorov & Joshua, that’s a huge success
Agree Toffoli isn’t a soft skilled player, developed in the hard knocks system of Darryl Sutter in LA, great on the walls and in puck battles, similar to Boeser just not as good.
Agree Toffoli isn’t a soft skilled player, developed in the hard knocks system of Darryl Sutter in LA, great on the walls and in puck battles, similar to Boeser just not as good.
I agree. I'm not sure they fully trust him yet though - they obviously didn't in the playoffs. He's a hard player to get a sure read on in a way. Trading him now, however, even in a good trade, would create a hard to fill hole in the roster and almost no cap relief. I suppose if he was moved as part of a deal to bring in a top 6 forward, you would then have to hope that his spot could be filled by someone we already have, and then hope the farm steps up a bit.
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JM with short term, absolutely. DeBrusk on a favourable hit, maybe? I really don't wanna tie into(just whoever) in theory two 5mill guys with term when we should be keeping room open to add a 10mill talent.
Would Friedman and Juulsen be our bottom pairing D in this scenario? Because I can't imagine there being much room left over for any more additions, (plus Silovs)
TruGr1t
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That likely doesn't fit. Guentzel ($9.5M) and Toffoli ($4M) plus Zadorov ($4.5M) and Joshua ($3.5M) is $21.5M. That's basically all your cap space and you'd be running Juulsen/Friedman as your two right-side guys behind Hronek. Blue line would be gross.
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