Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[centipede2233]

I swear over the years, it’s about who can swindle the leafs for millions of dollars, do a crap ass job (front office/coaching/players) and get their retirement set up real good. They should be called the Toronto Con men.

 

[sparxx87]

You never know with coaches, sometimes guys that were defensemen (Laviolette) coach an aggressive offense, and guys that were forwards (Lemaire) prefer an ultra conservative defense.

As a player, I was basically a Kasperi Kapanen clone and I found him to be a super aggravating player to watch. Sometimes when you take a step back from the game you get a different perspective.

In any case, our 50 million dollar powerplay was an embarrassment and heads need to role because of it.

Great point in the second paragraph. I think not just in sport but in anything you’re most critical of those who remind you of yourself. Watching from a step back and more perspective you recognize the little things that could have been done better and made this person/player better.

 

[Coachcorner]

The man sees it correctly. Ain't no thang mayne..... we is not doing it right at all. Still soft, not killing it with the killer instict. Naah brah. Now we getting rid of our most mui importantte souljas, for life. Hyman is key for real sire. For REAL. These are exactly the type of playaz and playettez who WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS. Win in general. Period.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The team obviously was not deep if it fell to the 18th place team in the NHL

We had Holl playing way too high in the lineup, didn't have anyone to come in once Muzzin got hurt

Had Engvall, Simmonds, Joe, Mikheyev playing regularly way too much in roles that were above their abilities.

The farm system we have is nothing special and hasn't paid any dividends in our current contention years. Sandin is not ready to be a bottom pairing defender in his D+3, Lilijgren was not ready to be a bottom pairing defender in his D+4.

Amirov is a wildcard and at least 1 more year away from being an NHLer though more likely two years. The rest of the guys are B pieces which are 2+ years out from NHL roles.

Our prospects will only become good NHLers near the end of the AM/MM(if he's still around), WN contracts and around the time Muzzin, Brodie, JT are all beginning to fall off.

We don't have a proper plan for when we are supposed to be contending. Our stars are not signed long enough at good hits to be able to wait out for help to come from guys like Hirvonen, Hallinder, Abramov, etc.

People are bending over backward to give any excuse they can find for excusing Dubas. It's been 3 years now since he's come and the results have been gross. He's failed at progressing the team and his roster has proven to be unable to win come Spring.

Dubas 3 year tenure right now sits at C, which is salvaged only due to his drafting while being a few years away from our current window was good.

In 2018, once we signed JT if we were told that we would lose 3 straight 1st round series, each to a team worse than us who we should have beaten, we would have laughed. People were going on about us being the Blackhawks then. The Dubas era has been a total failure so far. Whether he gets one more shot at it or not is MLSE's decision, but he is and should be on extremely thin ice with one more failure ending his NHL career

I know how to fix this issue. Fire Dubas..bring in Dale Tallon...let him do his thing for a few years...fire him and get a GM to take us to the next step. It seems wherever Tallon goes...he gets the foundation set for the next guy to come in and be successful. This should be his calling...like being a middle reliever in baseball...

 

[sparxx87]

I feel the leafs can begin a similar upward trend if we get rid of the guy at the top in Shanny. Fire him bring in a respected and no-nonsense proven winner in Jim Rutherford for President. Dubas either buys into Rutherfords' vision for the organization or he quits/is fired.

Rutherford revamps the culture on the leafs and helps establish a sense of credibility and respect that we have lost since letting Lou leave. He can help Dubas out in his role and will show him how you can admit you f***ed up (like Rutherford has in the past) and go on to correct the issue by making a trade. When Rutherford came to the Pens, he quickly dealt James Neal a 3 year PPG+ and around 40ish goal winger who had chemistry with Malkin but was not productive in the playoffs and was a lazy player for Hornqvist a dude who was a better version of hyman.

Hornqvist went on to be huge for the pens in the two cups they won and was generally a 55+ point player with grit, and leadership which mattered as he was still in his prime and productive.

I loved Marner the person and the player but he is the man we need to move on from and get a similar balancing the roster type deal while using the excess cap space to fix the scoring depth problems from the previous two years.

Continuing to build stubbornly around 4 forwards who don't have the ability to elevate their games usually in the playoffs is not the way to go, and it will surely lead to a 6th 1st round exit.

Marner for an Extended Seth Jones + a speedy winger like Emil Robinson is the trade that could fix things for the leafs.

We have still 5 million for next year after the deal and can get a nice depth piece or 2 to provide offense come playoffs.

Definitely agree with your line of thinking. Not sure Rutherford would be my first choice but you’re right, he has a pretty strong resume.

 

[Clark4Ever]

It's fitting that Nylander (the best value contract of the big four) and Spezza (the best value contract in the NHL) were our top scorers in the playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

Definitely agree with your line of thinking. Not sure Rutherford would be my first choice but you’re right, he has a pretty strong resume.

Who were you thinking to bring in? The only names I've recently heard of being interested/available are Dave Tallon and Rutherford. I'm not too sure I want Tallon as the President with his track record being pretty poor vs Rutherford who on the penguins at least was excellent and had them continuously competing. Any other high-profile guys that leafs could use to replace Shanny?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Remember when these guys said they wanted to.plsy for Keefe and would go through a wall for him? Hell they don't even stand up.for each other and have to.bring in others to do that

 

[sparxx87]

Who were you thinking to bring in? The only names I've recently heard of being interested/available are Dave Tallon and Rutherford. I'm not too sure I want Tallon as the President with his track record being pretty poor vs Rutherford who on the penguins at least was excellent and had them continuously competing. Any other high-profile guys that leafs could use to replace Shanny?

I don’t even know. Really tough decision and I’m glad I don’t have to make it.

I’d consider David Poile from Nashville as a candidate? Buy him from Nashville like they did with Burke from Anaheim?

 

[Boxscore]

Getting guys Snow got to sign at a fair and affordable rate is the sign of a great GM

He came in having no real relation with Eberle, Nelson, Lee but he quickly got them to buy into his vision and got them signed back.

He overpaid Lee by 1M and 2 years but he was their captain and a UFA so he had to keep the dude.

Komorov only makes 3M the reason they had to trade toews was b/c of the Andrew LaDd contract which Garth Snow the previous GM also signed toews was there #4D and they didn't have a spot for him higher as Pelch was and is a better player then him still and they have Dobson who's going to be their 1D for the future who needed minutes

Can you really throw shade at Lou for getting Palmeiri who has 4 goals and 1 assist when our Big deadline addition was foligno who absolutely ended up sucking for us.

Lou's team continue to deliver and win rounds. The majority in 2018 had them ready to be a bottom 5 team after JT left. They made the playoffs yet people said it was a fluke and hot goaltending. 2 years later they've continued to make the playoffs and have won 4 rounds since.

Lou has completely transformed the islanders who were a joke of a team in 2018 and missed the playoffs narrowly in 2017. He has built a top 7 team in the NHL and just needs to bring in one goal scoring sniper to make them a legit cup contending team with the nucleus already being there and their players having a winning mentality and culture

This is all 100% accurate. Great post.

 

[rumman]

I can say without a doubt, considering where the Leafs are now in terms of Nylander/Matthews/Marner and what it cost to get rid of Marleau, it 100% was not.

It was a bad signing. It was a bad signing the minute it was signed. The 1st year. The 2nd year and the last where they traded him. It was bad. There are lots of players out there who are professional on and off the ice. There are lots of players who can show young players how to be pros. And there are lots of players who have both those qualities that you didn't need to sign that contract.

Lou did a lot of good turning the organization around. The Marleau deal is without a doubt his single worst move.

If he signed Marleau to a one year deal, I'd have zero problem with the deal. But he didn't.

Fact is Marleau didn’t need to be traded, especially if you consider that this team is a playoff choke machine.....

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Getting guys Snow got to sign at a fair and affordable rate is the sign of a great GM

He came in having no real relation with Eberle, Nelson, Lee but he quickly got them to buy into his vision and got them signed back.

He overpaid Lee by 1M and 2 years but he was their captain and a UFA so he had to keep the dude.

Komorov only makes 3M the reason they had to trade toews was b/c of the Andrew LaDd contract which Garth Snow the previous GM also signed toews was there #4D and they didn't have a spot for him higher as Pelch was and is a better player then him still and they have Dobson who's going to be their 1D for the future who needed minutes

Can you really throw shade at Lou for getting Palmeiri who has 4 goals and 1 assist when our Big deadline addition was foligno who absolutely ended up sucking for us.

Lou's team continue to deliver and win rounds. The majority in 2018 had them ready to be a bottom 5 team after JT left. They made the playoffs yet people said it was a fluke and hot goaltending. 2 years later they've continued to make the playoffs and have won 4 rounds since.

Lou has completely transformed the islanders who were a joke of a team in 2018 and missed the playoffs narrowly in 2017. He has built a top 7 team in the NHL and just needs to bring in one goal scoring sniper to make them a legit cup contending team with the nucleus already being there and their players having a winning mentality and culture

I wasn't crazy about every Lou move..but in hindsight he would have been the better call to be the GM instead of Dubas. Just re-signing the core would have been worthing keeping Lou around for. The fact that Shanny wanted his guy because he was afraid he might bolt is going to haunt us for years to come. People will bring up the Komorov deal and yipe about it...but isn't he a guy that you would want in the playoffs? At least Matt Martin is useful compared to Simmonds...you get the idea. I blame Shanny more than anyone...he bought what Dubas was selling and didn't offer a counter balance to his GM...he just went along with whatever the boy wonder said. Dubas Drafts very well..I will give him that much...but so does Jim Benning.

 

[rumman]

I'll never forget his Devils teams. They practically invented boring hockey.

Nah, Roger Neilson did that in the 70’s with ghe Leafs. Certainly not run and gun, but hard defensive hockey is not boring imo.

 

[MagicalRazor]

It dose not matter to me right now . Are they running out of chances yes. Did they build a good team , yes.

If they stay or get fired / resign , I’d be mutual about it . This year I’m happy either way .

future results will depend on my thoughts next year .

 

[Bronxxx]

pick 2 trade 1 and waive the other see if anybody wants him at his inflated price , fire the coach and GM and see how the locker room changes . Torts is available , sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal with total control over the room and the bench , bet the culture evolves pretty damn fast .

Id hire Gabby. He bleeds blue.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

If Hyman is a mercenary u have no idea what u're talking about..

 

[Jojalu]

Keefe and Dubas definitely make over 2 mil a year ( although I can't find it so not sure). You don't think that's at least above market value for two dudes who they got from the OHL?

They got Babcock off of two Olympic dubs and multiple Stanley cups of course he's going to get paid more then the dude who never won the OHL

Multiple cups? 2008 is his only cup with a stacked Red Wing team that probably should have won way more.

But you are correct. He deserved to be paid more than Keefe

 

[Donnie740]

Hyman is key for real sire. For REAL. These are exactly the type of playaz and playettez who WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS. Win in general. Period.

Except for the fact that Hyman’s never won in the playoffs.

 

[81Leafs50]

this thread is hilarious. lol

Ovie didnt get past the 2nd round for 12 years. Stamkos and Hedman have been together for more than 11 years.

Winning is not easy. Leafs need to keep tinkering to find the right mix.

I am totally ok with trading Mitch tho.

 

[sparxx87]

I wasn't crazy about every Lou move..but in hindsight he would have been the better call to be the GM instead of Dubas. Just re-signing the core would have been worthing keeping Lou around for. The fact that Shanny wanted his guy because he was afraid he might bolt is going to haunt us for years to come. People will bring up the Komorov deal and yipe about it...but isn't he a guy that you would want in the playoffs? At least Matt Martin is useful compared to Simmonds...you get the idea. I blame Shanny more than anyone...he bought what Dubas was selling and didn't offer a counter balance to his GM...he just went along with whatever the boy wonder said. Dubas Drafts very well..I will give him that much...but so does Jim Benning.

I think it’s too soon to tell whether he drafts well or not. Anyone can pick out the best players at lower levels - the trick is picking the players that have the skills and brain to translate.

I like Sandin and he shows some very good instincts but it’s pretty hard for a undersized defenseman with below average skating and not much strength to play defense against NHL competition. I see what he could be with some work, but I’m not sure what he actually will be. Time will tell.

Players stocks rise and fall all the time at the lower levels. Everyone thinks they stole a player in the mid rounds and most often they’re wrong. Until we see his draft picks against NHL competition it’s very hard to tell IMO. He may have done well. We’ll see.

 

[koyvoo]

Yes, crucify one gutless faker coward, bit the golden boy gutless faker coward gets a pass. Cool.

 

[Azail]

this thread is hilarious. lol

Ovie didnt get past the 2nd round for 12 years. Stamkos and Hedman have been together for more than 11 years.

Winning is not easy. Leafs need to keep tinkering to find the right mix.

I am totally ok with trading Mitch tho.

I completely agree that winning is hard. And I do think there is a lot of luck involved in winning the the NHL playoffs. But it is tough to see our same core flounder as they have since they got here, and not step up to the plate and win even a series for us.

I agree with trading Mitch for the right deal. He is still a 90pt player, you don't give them away, but if another team is looking for a change (Eichel, Jones, whatever else is out there) you definitely have to explore it.

 

[sparxx87]

Nah, Roger Neilson did that in the 70’s with ghe Leafs. Certainly not run and gun, but hard defensive hockey is not boring imo.

I love it. Especially in the playoffs where the matchups and tactics are like a chess match. The best teams are also the best and most cohesive and connected units. It doesn’t get any better.

Few mistakes but it’s usually only 1 or 2 that prove to be the difference.

 

[Captain14]

I swear over the years, it’s about who can swindle the leafs for millions of dollars, do a crap ass job (front office/coaching/players) and get their retirement set up real good. They should be called the Toronto Con men.

Maybe it’s plain old karma for what Harold Ballard did to his players for over two decades!

 

[sxvnert]

Of course Hyman won’t give one single cent for a discount. No one else did. In fact, Dubas gave even more than required to keep people “happy”.
Now we have a culture of mercenaries trying to extract anything they can. And another group of country club residents basking in their inflated deals.
This core is poisoned beyond repair.
Pick one and trade him or the poison spreads.

Nor should he but a gm who isnt a soy loving ......would tell hyman to take a hike.