Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

Fire Shanahan/Dubas?


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gamer1035

Registered User
Feb 14, 2012
4,191
879
We know dubas isn't trading the core. We know Keefe going anywhere with dubas in charge.

When do we finally decide to gut the organization? Or shall we just continue riding first round exits until matthews walks?

Btw, Matthews and marner didn't take discounts sure, but we also way overpaid them. Cap hits too high, term to low (free agency sooner). There are no comparables to these contracts.
 

Wendelstache

Registered User
May 5, 2010
9,889
3,813
With the way how they defended the multi-year collapse, they are part of the Blue and White Disease.
 

ITM

Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
Jan 26, 2012
4,799
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I completely agree that winning is hard. And I do think there is a lot of luck involved in winning the the NHL playoffs. But it is tough to see our same core flounder as they have since they got here, and not step up to the plate and win even a series for us.

I agree with trading Mitch for the right deal. He is still a 90pt player, you don't give them away, but if another team is looking for a change (Eichel, Jones, whatever else is out there) you definitely have to explore it.

Eichel for Marner feels like trading drama-heavy for drama-lite. Don't want Eichel. Jones is what we need positionally. Can't trade Tavares. Can't trade Matthews. Shouldn't trade Nylander...What other piece is there to move that number one defenceman needle?
 

Azail

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
910
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Eichel for Marner feels like trading drama-heavy for drama-lite. Don't want Eichel. Jones is what we need positionally. Can't trade Tavares. Can't trade Matthews. Shouldn't trade Nylander...What other piece is there to move that number one defenceman needle?
I don't disagree with any of what you said. I think Eichel (barring career altering surgery) is better than Marner, but you could be right about the drama, I am not in the know in either of those 2 organizations, so I cannot comment one way or another.

I would also like an upgrade on defense, but if we are talking about the series against Montreal, we lost because our stars didn't show up, not because our defense couldn't get it done. Maybe Jones helps that, but I thought Rielly played very well, and I am not really a big Rielly fan.

I do agree that, based on the past 4(?) playoffs, the guy you trade is Marner.
 
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Transplanted Caper

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Feb 24, 2003
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The country club thing is a nonsense pejorative. People are ticked, fine, but none of those guys get where they are without real effort and desire. The notion it's lacking is just built in confirmation bias of people who have a very specific view of what a player should be.
 

ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
15,770
London, On
In the end it's a business. But sometimes the Leafs need to treat it as such and move on from players who.totally fold in the playoffs.
 

Egghead1999

Registered User
Nov 9, 2007
3,241
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this thread is hilarious. lol

Ovie didnt get past the 2nd round for 12 years. Stamkos and Hedman have been together for more than 11 years.

Winning is not easy. Leafs need to keep tinkering to find the right mix.

I am totally ok with trading Mitch tho.
No one asks a cup in here, people are talking about the 1st round. ANyway, Shark was a country club culture club, and Leafs had their 2 biggest stars :naughty:

I do agree that MM needs to be traded, best for both parties.
 

Raym11

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
8,183
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Eichel for Marner feels like trading drama-heavy for drama-lite. Don't want Eichel. Jones is what we need positionally. Can't trade Tavares. Can't trade Matthews. Shouldn't trade Nylander...What other piece is there to move that number one defenceman needle?


we need cap space more than anything, to take a shot at Hamilton


I don't disagree with any of what you said. I think Eichel (barring career altering surgery) is better than Marner, but you could be right about the drama, I am not in the know in either of those 2 organizations, so I cannot comment one way or another.

I would also like an upgrade on defense, but if we are talking about the series against Montreal, we lost because our stars didn't show up, not because our defense couldn't get it done. Maybe Jones helps that, but I thought Rielly played very well, and I am not really a big Rielly fan.

I do agree that, based on the past 4(?) playoffs, the guy you trade is Marner.

Eichels drama is he hates losing. He would 100% standout on a better team.

I'd rather have a drama-lite who is upset with losing. None of the moves have worked out because their team is just awful across the board outside of 3 players, but his whining has forced management to do stuff, even if its inept
 
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sxvnert

Registered User
Nov 23, 2015
12,803
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this thread is hilarious. lol

Ovie didnt get past the 2nd round for 12 years. Stamkos and Hedman have been together for more than 11 years.

Winning is not easy. Leafs need to keep tinkering to find the right mix.

I am totally ok with trading Mitch tho.
OV signed a 12 year contract. Matthews signed for 5. Hes 100% gone in three years unless dubas massively overpays again.
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,544
24,881
Richmond Hill, ON
we need cap space more than anything, to take a shot at Hamilton

Move Rielly for a #1 prospect and #1 pick and sign Hamilton. Andy and Hyman walk. Voila. Enough cap space to sign Hamilton, a UFA goalie (Drieger??) and a Hyman replacement (Goodrow??).
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,544
24,881
Richmond Hill, ON
OV signed a 12 year contract. Matthews signed for 5. Hes 100% gone in three years unless dubas massively overpays again.

What other team can overpay Matty more than he is overpaid now and has sufficient cap space ?? Move him in two years to the Rangers, Kings or Knights if he can't be resigned.
 

Raym11

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
8,183
1,902
my first knee-jerk reactions besides trading M&M was swapping elite for elite, but i would much rather look into finding a way to create cap space for a D man who can qb a PP. Also i will disregard any "but we have Sandin". I said a D man
 
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Captain Crunch

Registered User
Mar 31, 2019
2,383
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The Leafs have been worse every year under Dubas.
He is pissing away our window and is clearly not capable of building a playoff Team.
How many more failures will it take for you to see this??
2/4/forever?
It is very clear what the problem is.
Wonder Boy.
And.
Shanahan for hiring him.
Don’t need to talk points,individual stats etc...
Nothing matters except the Stanley Cup.
I agree. It’s clear Dubas truly believes he can win with these 4 core players who basically take up half the cap. He’s had Matthews and Marner for 5 years, and Tavares for 3, and still they have not won a playoff round.
How in hell Shanahan doesn’t see through this is beyond me. They both need to go.
People say the Leafs can’t/won’t win a Marner trade. I disagree. But as long as Shanahan and Dubas remain, we will never know.
 
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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Lool still on the defending management train

Atleast dubas has done some stuff well and has a basis for getting 1 more shot.

Shanahan is just a total failure in his tenure as a leaf

The Shanny era is the best era in franchise history, since the 60s at least.
 

Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,494
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The minute Dubas overpaid Mitch and Auston he f***ed this club beyond belief and decimated our chances of winning

You win with cap friendly contracts with heart like Marchand, Pasta, Bergeron etc.
 
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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
The minute Dubas overpaid Mitch and Auston he f***ed this club beyond belief and decimated our chances of winning

You win with cap friendly contracts with heart like Marchand, Pasta, Bergeron etc.

The depth played great these playoffs tho.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,544
24,881
Richmond Hill, ON
The minute Dubas overpaid Mitch and Auston he f***ed this club beyond belief and decimated our chances of winning

You win with cap friendly contracts with heart like Marchand, Pasta, Bergeron etc.

No he f***ed it when he had no idea how greedy these guys would get before signing Tavares. In what world do 2 RFAs get UFA money given to a UFA, 8 year franchise C ?
 

Arzak

Registered User
Mar 27, 2019
2,225
2,012
Of course Hyman won’t give one single cent for a discount. No one else did. In fact, Dubas gave even more than required to keep people “happy”.
Now we have a culture of mercenaries trying to extract anything they can. And another group of country club residents basking in their inflated deals.
This core is poisoned beyond repair.
Pick one and trade him or the poison spreads.



Teams like Boston got an internal cap structure. Bergeron's 6.9 per year was used as an example when Marchand signed. When it came to Pasta he was also kept below Bergeron @ 6.6. The only contract higher than that was Krejci @7 per year who signed after being the top producer on Cup winning team (and playing 1st line while Bergeron played 2nd at the time).


You can argue Leafs were very similar, once Tavares signed, the rest of the team shaped up accordingly.


We'll see if Hall resigns with the Bruins and what will be the price tag there...

If they resign Krejci who is still somehow not slowing down, it's most likely on team-friendly contract.


Talk about cap management and protecting assets from expansion draft... Rask, Krejci,Hall pending UFA don't need to be protected.




It's not one isolated thing. People try to down play it, it's only coupe mills here and there. It would get together measly 5 mill. But it does sends a message to Hymans . You still need circa 30 players of the course of the season and none of them takes discounts.



Also, you cant trough in veteran for 1 mill and expect to have the same effect as veterans already on the team for years, not making peanuts because they are way past their prime?


There is a talk about culture but who is the bearer of said culture? You had Chara as captain for years, passing on Bergeron and company well after they were veterans living the culture.

It reminds me of Cat from the Red Dwarf, who taught himself at school..
 
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Racer88

Registered User
Sep 29, 2020
12,149
12,137
The country club thing is a nonsense pejorative. People are ticked, fine, but none of those guys get where they are without real effort and desire. The notion it's lacking is just built in confirmation bias of people who have a very specific view of what a player should be.
So what do you think their problem is?
 

Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,494
3,763
Milton
Teams like Boston got an internal cap structure. Bergeron's 6.9 per year was used as an example when Marchand signed. When it came to Pasta he was also kept below Bergeron @ 6.6. The only contract higher than that was Krejci @7 per year who signed after being the top producer on Cup winning team (and playing 1st line while Bergeron played 2nd at the time).


You can argue Leafs were very similar, once Tavares signed, the rest of the team shaped up accordingly.


We'll see if Hall resigns with the Bruins and what will be the price tag there...

If they resign Krejci who is still somehow not slowing down, it's most likely on team-friendly contract.


Talk about cap management and protecting assets from expansion draft... Rask, Krejci,Hall pending UFA don't need to be protected.




It's not one isolated thing. People try to down play it, it's only coupe mills here and there. It would get together measly 5 mill. But it does sends a message to Hymans . You still need circa 30 players of the course of the season and none of them takes discounts.



Also, you cant trough in veteran for 1 mill and expect to have the same effect as veterans already on the team for years, not making peanuts because they are way past their prime?


There is a talk about culture but who is the bearer of said culture? You had Chara as captain for years, passing on Bergeron and company well after they were veterans living the culture.

It reminds me of Cat from the Red Dwarf, who taught himself at school..

Exactly! Tavares set the bar at 11 million. Matthews and Marner new they were just as good. Vs TB who had Kucherov take less (nets more because of taxes) and it set the bar for Point.

Then to make things worse the cap doesn’t go up making these contracts look even worse. That’s really the big issue.

Every city has an advantage and unique selling point. Toronto’s is money and we can’t even pay people because of the cap.
 

RoadWarrior

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
5,307
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In a van down by the river
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The country club thing is a nonsense pejorative. People are ticked, fine, but none of those guys get where they are without real effort and desire. The notion it's lacking is just built in confirmation bias of people who have a very specific view of what a player should be.

Yeah I guess asking a player to put in maximum effort in playoff elimination games is asking too much of them. After all they get paid for regular season scoring right?

We'll be good little fans, hand you our money and walk away with our heads lowered in deference to all the greatness that is the TML franchise.
 
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