Proposal: Zacha + McLeod for W. Nylander + Marincin

[Sundinisagod]

You have an awfully short memory...

Wow

You sure are twisting his words around to fit your agenda.

 

[Edmonton East]

Man, you guys have a hard time with reading comprehension.

No, where did I say "Nylander is a 70 point C, and Zacha/McLeod are 40 point C's"

Ha. Called it.

And here is another great quote from you:

Zacha looks to be a very safe pick to be a solid two-way 2C who can play in all situations and provide a big shot on the power play. McLeod promises to be a solid 2 way 2C/3C with speed to burn.

So, again, even though no one knows how these guys will turn out, you are evaluating Nylander at his expected ceiling and McLeod and Zacha at their widely believed floors. I shouldn't need to explain how that is flawed logic.

 

[J15]

Toronto takes this and runs

 

[Sundinisagod]

The value clearly favors Toronto. No.

This is one of the worst proposals I have seen on this site from a teams own fan. Why are we valuing Nylander as a lock for his ceiling (70 points which is damn good), while using the widely believed floors for Zacha and McLeod at 40 points? This thought process is ludicrous.

Nylander has no ceiling.

 

[Homesick]

Why is calling Nylander a potential 70pt #1C so outlandish? If you look at his point totals to date, they fully suggest that's a possible case

It's not that I'm disagreeing with it. It's just the under valuing of Zacha and McLeod.
If their floors are 30 point C's and Nylanders is 60 points then thats where I have to laugh

 

[Sundinisagod]

Toronto takes this and runs

No they don't.

 

[Edmonton East]

You sure are twisting his words around to fit your agenda.

Well golly gee, when you give an estimated point total of 30-55 I guess you can claim whatever you want to fit your (or his) agenda. Might as well have said I expect Zacha and McLeod to get 0-120 points and Nylander to get 50 to 300.

And, again, the whole irony here is by his very post WORD FOR WORD, he would hypothetically trade 2 55 point players for a 60 point player and a bottom D.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's not that I'm disagreeing with it. It's just the under valuing of Zacha and McLeod.
If their floors are 30 point C's and Nylanders is 60 points then thats where I have to laugh

You must have missed where I said this earlier on page 2.

Seems like a mixed bag. I do think most people would view this as value in favor of Toronto. I think it's fairly close . . . I see Nylander as a guy who should be a 50-70 point playmaker, Zacha a 35-55 point 2 way player, McLeod a 30-50 point utilty player, and Marincin a 4/5 defensive defenseman.

Zacha and McLeod are valuable assets, but the scarcity of young players who possess the potential to be a perennial top 20-30 scorer makes this deal pretty even in value.

In HF terms, Nylander is an 8.0C, Zacha a 7.5C, McLeod a 7.0C, and Marincin a 6.5C

So it's essentially 14.5C for 14.5C.

And this from page 3

What's wrong with my projections? I think that his bottom 10th percentile is 35 points in terms of prime production, while 55 points would be in the 90th percentile. That said, I think Zacha could certainly score 35 points or even more this year, as he is IMO already very far along his own development curve. I think he'll be a bit like a Jordan Staal in terms of development curve - he should be able to come in and make an immediate impact because of his physical maturity, but I don't see him making astronomical improvements beyond that. I expect him to put up anywhere between ~25 and ~40 points as a rookie, with the ability to add another ~10-15 points beyond that at his peak.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well golly gee, when you give an estimated point total of 30-55 I guess you can claim whatever you want to fit your (or his) agenda. Might as well have said I expect Zacha and McLeod to get 0-120 points and Nylander to get 50 to 300.

And, again, the whole irony here is by his very post WORD FOR WORD, he would hypothetically trade 2 55 point players for a 60 point player and a bottom D.

Your logic skills are really lacking here. Where did I say that?

Please guys, lets put the emotions aside and actually discuss the topic (or don't). Its tiring dealing with the intentional "word twisting" that's going on around here. Don't you have anything better to do than throw up strawmen arguments on a message board?

 

[HarrisonFord]

It's not that I'm disagreeing with it. It's just the under valuing of Zacha and McLeod.
If their floors are 30 point C's and Nylanders is 60 points then thats where I have to laugh

Personally I'm less familiar with Zacha and McLeod (probably normal that as a Leaf fan I'm more familiar with my team's prospects than NJ's) so I can't really comment. I personally have always gotten the sense that Zacha was projecting towards being a #2C, but he does have the highest points/game of his draft class And McLeod I have no idea about. I'll have a better idea after his draft +1 year

 

[Redline]

Leaf fans don't realize that 70 points is Tavares, Seguin, Giroux, Stamkos level of production in this era

The only poster projecting point totals in this thread is a Devils fan but as usual that fact is lost on you and you spin it towards Leaf fans. Big surprise there.

 

[Edmonton East]

Seems like a mixed bag. I do think most people would view this as value in favor of Toronto. I think it's fairly close . . . I see Nylander as a guy who should be a 50-70 point playmaker, Zacha a 35-55 point 2 way player, McLeod a 30-50 point utilty player, and Marincin a 4/5 defensive defenseman.

Zacha and McLeod are valuable assets, but the scarcity of young players who possess the potential to be a perennial top 20-30 scorer makes this deal pretty even in value.

In HF terms, Nylander is an 8.0C, Zacha a 7.5C, McLeod a 7.0C, and Marincin a 6.5C

So it's essentially 14.5C for 14.5C.

I am a Devils fan . . . and yes I would trade 2 ~30-55 point players for a 60-70 point player and a 4/5 defenseman.

Your logic skills are really lacking here. Where did I say that?

Please guys, lets put the emotions aside and actually discuss the topic (or don't). Its tiring dealing with the intentional "word twisting" that's going on around here. Don't you have anything better to do than throw up strawmen arguments on a message board?

My logic??? You can't even get your OWN OPINION/VALUATIONS straight! It changes by the hour. Literally.

 

[AvroArrow]

What's with all the Nylander proposals ? NJ giving way too much, but Nylander is a huge part of the "talent in Toronto" and is going to get major minutes here

 

[Gavy]

Leaf fans don't realize that 70 points is Tavares, Seguin, Giroux, Stamkos level of production in this era

You realize it's a Devils fan saying that and not Leaf fans? You're not looking too smart in this thread.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

My logic??? You can't even get your OWN OPINION/VALUATIONS straight! It changes by the hour. Literally.

You literally didn't even see the post I was replying to lol.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

And, again, the whole irony here is by his very post WORD FOR WORD, he would hypothetically trade 2 55 point players for a 60 point player and a bottom D.

Also, by this logic, you would hypothetically reject a a trade where you give up 2 ~35 point players for a 70 point player and a #4 D.

 

[Edmonton East]

Also, by this logic, you would hypothetically reject a a trade where you give up 2 ~35 point players for a 70 point player and a #4 D.

I know, I am pointing out how ridiculous your ranges are. Get it now?

To reiterate for the 5th time: You are valuing Nylander at his perceived ceiling and Zacha/McLeod at their floors. This does not make sense. You asked for opinions on the proposal, I have given you mine several times now. Even the majority of non Devils fans think the value clearly favors Toronto.

Christ just admit you hated both draft picks and you are biased in evaluating their trade value. That's what 90% of your posts have been about on the prospect board. And this is coming from someone who argued against Zacha (vocally wanted Barzal) on the actual Devils board and fought with everyone.

 

[Edmonton East]

You literally didn't even see the post I was replying to lol.

You didn't quote a post in the response in question, so how could I have? And if you did, it was removed.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Also, by this logic, you would hypothetically reject a a trade where you give up 2 ~35 point players for a 70 point player and a #4 D.

Again, you're missing the point here, you've already made up your mind that Zacha and McLeod are going to play at their floor level and Nylander and Marincin are going to hit their ceiling level.

The reason you're getting so much venom from Devils fans is that you've already made up your mind about these players and are stubbornly ignoring evidence that doesn't support your position.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Again, you're missing the point here, you've already made up your mind that Zacha and McLeod are going to play at their floor level and Nylander and Marincin are going to hit their ceiling level.

The reason you're getting so much venom from Devils fans is that you've already made up your mind about these players and are stubbornly ignoring evidence that doesn't support your position.

No, I am not doing that at all. I see both those guys as having upside of 50-55 points. I have mentioned that a few times. At this point in their development, Nylander is a less risky pick just due to his experience, he's a bit more proven, which is why I think his floor is that of a 2C.

If I had said "McLeod and Zacha will be 30 point players and Nylander will be a 70 point player", then yea, I would have been guilty of misrepresenting the value of these players. But I never thought or said that.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You didn't quote a post in the response in question, so how could I have? And if you did, it was removed.

It was removed by a mod lol damn

 

[zharkenby]

The Leafs aren't moving Nylander for more young forwards. They have young forwards coming out of their ears. They might move him in a deal to acquire the right high end defenseman. Another one of these "let's steal Nylander before he breaks out" trade proposals.

Pretty clear the Devils are giving more than they're getting here in terms of value... But yeah this is a "steal Nylander" proposal. Easy no from NJ.

 

[Quarter]

It may just be me, but does anyone else see a glaring contradiction in saying that Nylander would struggle as a centreman behind Matthews but excel as a centreman behind Henrique when he'd essentially be in the same position behind either?

And I'd much rather have a depth of Matthews/Nylander/Kadri down the middle than Matthews/Zacha/McLeod, especially as soon as next season. I can't see this trade for Toronto as anything but delaying the process an entire year.

Maybe I'm just biased though.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

It's kind of funny, ever since Toronto drafted Matthews I see a lot of offers where Leafs fans are willing to trade Nylander... but a few months before Matthews was drafted, Nylander was touted as the second coming of god.

By the way, I think Nylander is going to be really good and Leafs shouldn't trade him

 

[Cotton]

Pretty clear the Devils are giving more than they're getting here in terms of value... But yeah this is a "steal Nylander" proposal. Easy no from NJ.

Considering Nylander is far and away the best player in the deal, who had something like 11pts in his last 12 NHL games as a 19 year old C, on a team icing an AHL roster. Yeah, it would be a steal.

You also get a big, young D with upside who's an everyday NHL'er.

In return Toronto gets Zacha, who hasn't really improved since the draft - but did manage to look okay against a struggling Garrett Sparks and a Toronto team looking for a loss. We also get a C who has speed but no finish, and had been slipping down to the late teens in prospect rankings.

Leafs pass easily. They give up the best prospect and the only proven NHL'er.