Proposal: Zacha + McLeod for W. Nylander + Marincin

[Jason MacIsaac]

I am a Devils fan . . . and yes I would trade 2 ~30-55 point players for a 60-70 point player and a 4/5 defenseman.

Would you trade two puck possession centers capable of putting up 30-40 ESP for a winger capable of putting up 45-55 ESP. Even better, would you trade two 18 minute centers for a 19 minute winger? Stop looking at this team as goals and points, this isn't a fantasy team.

 

[7even]

Hear me out on this one.

With Matthews, the Leafs have their future 1C locked up for the next 7+ years. I see Nylander as an offensive center who seems to find more success when he's the focal point of an offense, which he'll likely not get to be very often with all the talent in Toronto.

Why Toronto does this:
Zacha looks to be a very safe pick to be a solid two-way 2C who can play in all situations and provide a big shot on the power play. McLeod promises to be a solid 2 way 2C/3C with speed to burn. Having 2 big, speedy centers (who both have great games for wing too) with strong 2 way games who can carry the puck and chip in on offense like that would be the perfect fit behind / alongside Matthews and Kadri.

Toronto's forward group could look something like this by 2017-18:
JVR - Matthews - Marner
Kadri - Zacha - Soshnikov
Brown - McLeod - Bozak
Kapanen - Gauthier - Hyman

That is big, fast, and skilled down the middle (aside from goat, who's just big). Of course you have the option of moving Kadri / Bozak to C. Or you could trade one or both of them to pick up a top 4 D.

Why NJ does this:
This gives NJ the young playmaking center they've needed and adds a solid young defensive defenseman to help fill the hole left by Larsson's departure and give Santini more time to develop.

Hall - Henrique - Bennett
Cammalleri - Nylander - Palmieri
Boucher - Zajac - DSP
Kalinin - Fiddler - Josefson

That's 2 pretty good looking scoring lines with a solid 3rd line that can chip in as well. Having Nylander with 2 snipers like 'eri' brothers could be pretty fruitful.

Thoughts? Way off on value? Does it make sense for either side?

I've never seen such a wide range of reactions from fans of both teams so I think you did something right.

I'd pass from the Leafs POV because I don't think their forward composition needs to be "safe" to be successful. Nylander also has one of the highest offensive ceilings in the conference -- he's a "scarce" resource in this league. And while Im pretty comfortable projecting Nylander as a top 6 player based on his professional career to date, I think projecting McLeod and Zacha is a little more nebulous.

Nice proposal tho. You're a solid poster m8.

 

[exporta]

I have no desire to move Nylander before seeing what he is as a player.

The pretense for this is flawed, Nylander is going to be Matthews winger this season. Some people around these parts disagree, but his game today is better suited on the wing. If he develops into a bonafide top 6 centre, I see no reason to deal him for two more centres.

That being said, the value certainly favours Toronto. But doesnt do much to address an area of need.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Would you trade two puck possession centers capable of putting up 30-40 ESP for a winger capable of putting up 45-55 ESP. Even better, would you trade two 18 minute centers for a 19 minute winger? Stop looking at this team as goals and points, this isn't a fantasy team.

Yes I would. Its simple economics - scarcity rules. The relative cost of middle 6 40 point centers is significantly less than that of a player who can score 60-70 points simply because they are relatively replaceable. I don't care if its ES or not. Scoring is scoring, and we need to score to win.

Would you prefer Andrew Cogliano + Patrik Berglund or David Krejci? I can see reasons for both, but I take the best player in a deal when you are dealing with core players.

 

[Homesick]

One of the best?

Id definitely take these guys over him:

McDavid
Eichel
Strome
Marner
Hanifin
Provorov
Werenski
Rantanen
Barzal
Connor
Konecny
Boeser
Aho

I dont think that a player that is around the 14th best player is one of the best.

The only ones you can pretty much say for sure is McDavid and Eichel. You must really hate the Devils

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I've never seen such a wide range of reactions from fans of both teams so I think you did something right.

I'd pass from the Leafs POV because I don't think their forward composition needs to be "safe" to be successful. Nylander also has one of the highest offensive ceilings in the conference -- he's a "scarce" resource in this league. And while Im pretty comfortable projecting Nylander as a top 6 player based on his professional career to date, I think projecting McLeod and Zacha is a little more nebulous.

Nice proposal tho. You're a solid poster m8.

thanks man, appreciate it.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I'd rather have a top 9 centers of Matthews, Nylander, Kadri than Matthews, Zacha, McLeod so I'd pass as a Leafs fan.
I don't believe is trading blue chip prospects who have done nothing but improve their value since being drafted anyways.

 

[member 157595]

It's very reasonable in terms of trade value (which I appreciate; you're certainly not trying to get Nylander for spare parts) but doesn't fit our needs.

Nylander has a better chance of developing into a high-end scorer than either Zacha or McLeod, and we need that high-end potential more than we need forward prospect depth (which is our strength.) We have a serious need for young, good right-handed defensemen.

I don't think Nylander's untouchable but I'd only move him for a young RHD of comparable talent level IMO, and I don't see any team willing to give one of those up at the moment.

 

[BigWilly]

The.leafs.are.not.trading.nylander.

I feel like everyone has to write that out 100 times like when you were caught misbehaving in primary school.

 

[Homesick]

Exactly, hence attempting to acquire Nylander.

So they give up two offensive players to get one who might not even be as good?
Nylander was massively sheltered with OZ starts and weak competition last season in his small sample size. Marincin has always been a streaky player and is weak so I wouldnt listen to Leaf fans pumping up his end of the season either

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So they give up two offensive players to get one who might not even be as good?
Nylander was massively sheltered with OZ starts and weak competition last season in his small sample size. Marincin has always been a streaky player and is weak so I wouldnt listen to Leaf fans pumping up his end of the season either

Well, there is uncertainty in every trade. In this case, the expected offensive production for Nylander is much higher than that of either Zacha or McLeod IMO. And its not like Nylander came out of nowhere to produce well in the NHL, he was dominant in the SEL and the AHL at 19 . . . .

 

[member 157595]

So they give up two offensive players to get one who might not even be as good?
Nylander was massively sheltered with OZ starts and weak competition last season in his small sample size. Marincin has always been a streaky player and is weak so I wouldnt listen to Leaf fans pumping up his end of the season either

Marincin genuinely played well the second half of the season. He's not a world-beater by any means and he's not going to light up the scoreboard, but he was useful and should continue to be as long as he is played in the appropriate role.

Nylander's young and has a long way to go, but when Toronto fans say he has more offensive upside than Zacha or McLeod, that's not because of bias. Could he bust? Sure...so could Zacha and/or McLeod. Does he have more offensive potential than either of those guys? He really does, and that would be true no matter what sweater he wears.

 

[Edmonton East]

The value clearly favors Toronto. No.

This is one of the worst proposals I have seen on this site from a teams own fan. Why are we valuing Nylander as a lock for his ceiling (70 points which is damn good), while using the widely believed floors for Zacha and McLeod at 40 points? This thought process is ludicrous.

 

[Homesick]

The value clearly favors Toronto. No.

This is one of the worst proposals I have seen on this site from a teams own fan. Why are we valuing Nylander as a lock for his ceiling (70 points which is damn good), while using the widely believed floors for Zacha and McLeod at 40 points? This thought process is ludicrous.

Leaf fans don't realize that 70 points is Tavares, Seguin, Giroux, Stamkos level of production in this era

 

[vtdevils2k]

The value clearly favors Toronto. No.

This is one of the worst proposals I have seen on this site from a teams own fan. Why are we valuing Nylander as a lock for his ceiling (70 points which is damn good), while using the widely believed floors for Zacha and McLeod at 40 points? This thought process is ludicrous.

Especially when(and yes it was the last game of the regular season, but still) when the 2 teams played each other, Zacha was one of/if not the best player on the ice for both teams.

Simply can't say one or the other is better than the other based on Junior/AHL stats. Let it play out. I think all 3 will be players in the league.

 

[member 157595]

Leaf fans don't realize that 70 points is Tavares, Seguin, Giroux, Stamkos level of production in this era

Do you have anything to offer in this thread besides making fun of a fanbase that is incredibly diverse and contains no sole Borg-like consciousness?

Nylander has 1st liner upside. Whether or not he reaches it, I have no idea; he has a lot of things to work on yet.

It's okay for Toronto fans to be excited about this player. I would wager that any fanbase would be excited about him. Why is that such a crime?

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I won't respond on the value, but that duo comment especially for prospects is incredibly naive. Junior chemistry rarely transfers over to NHL chemistry. It's a different game and players have to adapt their games to the professional level. It makes it all the more harder to try to maintain that chemistry with another person when the whole pace of the game and the league itself is completely different.

It's like trying to trade away Nylander for Dvorak just because he and Marner had incredible chemistry in junior. And Dvorak and Marner had far greater chemistry than any chemistry Mcleod and Bastian had. But it still would be a terrible move, to focus on just junior chemistry. Terrible.

I didn't mention the word 'chemistry' once in my original post. You're misinterpreting.

It's the culture I'm talking about. Chemistry in juniors is extremely fickle, I agree with you.

 

[Homesick]

Do you have anything to offer in this thread besides making fun of a fanbase that is incredibly diverse and contains no sole Borg-like consciousness?

Nylander has 1st liner upside. Whether or not he reaches it, I have no idea; he has a lot of things to work on yet.

It's okay for Toronto fans to be excited about this player. I would wager that any fanbase would be excited about him. Why is that such a crime?

It's so easy sometimes. Especially when crap is flung out like "Nylander is a 70 point C, and Zacha/McLeod are 40 point C's" Thats the crime

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's so easy sometimes. Especially when crap is flung out like "Nylander is a 70 point C, and Zacha/McLeod are 40 point C's" Thats the crime

Please, show me where anyone said this.

 

[Edmonton East]

I am a Devils fan . . . and yes I would trade 2 ~30-55 point players for a 60-70 point player and a 4/5 defenseman.

Please, show me where anyone said this.

You have an awfully short memory...

Wow

 

[Homesick]

Zacha might not even make the NHL. 35 points is more that what you should expect. If you want more than 35 from him your going to be disappointed.

I am a Devils fan . . . and yes I would trade 2 ~30-55 point players for a 60-70 point player and a 4/5 defenseman.

Please, show me where anyone said this.

Ok

 

[HarrisonFord]

It's so easy sometimes. Especially when crap is flung out like "Nylander is a 70 point C, and Zacha/McLeod are 40 point C's" Thats the crime

Why is calling Nylander a potential 70pt #1C so outlandish? If you look at his point totals to date, they fully suggest that's a possible case

 

[Edmonton East]

Ok

He's gonna cling to the ranges he posted. Which are ridiculous in themselves because he is saying he would potentially trade 2 55 point players for a 60 point player...

Before someone quotes this out of context: I am not saying any of those players are going to get those point totals

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You have an awfully short memory...

Wow

Ok

Man, you guys have a hard time with reading comprehension.

No, where did I say "Nylander is a 70 point C, and Zacha/McLeod are 40 point C's"

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He's gonna cling to the ranges he posted. Which are ridiculous in themselves because he is saying he would potentially trade 2 55 point players for a 60 point player...

Before someone quotes this out of context: I am not saying any of those players are going to get those point totals

Its all about probability. Yes, both Zacha and McLeod could end up being a better offensive player than Nylander, but I find it highly, highly unlikely. I think the most likely scenario is that you get a ~40 point player, a ~45 point player, and a ~60 point player.