Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Micklebot]

Idk about picking up Karlsson, you get diminishing returns we you hoard certain skill sets.

Karlsson wasn't able to maximize his potential in SJ while Burns was there, and we won't be able to maximize Chabot, Sanderson and Karlsson all at the same time. That's not to say we can't be good with all three but I'd rather add a player like Parayko (not saying that's a realistic possibility).

We need more diversity in our top end D, Sanderson is a good start, but slick skating skilled guys will only take you so far. We need a Chelios to our Lidstrom (not saying Sanderson is or will be as good as Lidstrom)

 

[DaveMatthew]

Idk about picking up Karlsson, you get diminishing returns we you hoard certain skill sets.

Karlsson wasn't able to maximize his potential in SJ while Burns was there, and we won't be able to maximize Chabot, Sanderson and Karlsson all at the same time. That's not to say we can't be good with all three but I'd rather add a player like Parayko (not saying that's a realistic possibility).

We need more diversity in our top end D, Sanderson is a good start, but slick skating skilled guys will only take you so far. We need a Chelios to our Lidstrom (not saying Sanderson is or will be as good as Lidstrom)

If you're bringing in Karlsson you'd probably have to move out Chabot in a separate deal.

It's not as crazy as it sounds, because if SJ retained 30% on EK, swapping him in for Chabot would be cap neutral but save ~$11M in cash over the next 4 years. Plus, the price you'd pay to acquire Karlsson (since he has a full NMC) would almost certainly be lower than the assets you could acquire if you moved Chabot out to another team.

Essentially, you could replace Chabot with Karlsson as your top offensive D and PP QB, use Chabot to go out and get a cheaper, more defensive D (let's say an extended Gavrikov + additional assets from Columbus), and then use the cash savings to extend Zub.

Will it ever happen? No since it's not NHL23. But interesting to think about.

 

[sennysensen]

I am drooling at the thought of a Sanderson Karlsson top pairing!

I wonder how Karlsson will age? As he does play with his mind a lot, he could last a long time like Gonchar who was still a good player when he slowed down. Although his injury history could catch up to him again.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Considering the lack of available defenseman, and the relatively solid play from JBD, it might make more sense for Dorion to focus on shoring up the 2nd C spot. Brassard is a black hole there, and we looked like a different team when Norris was playing.

Freddy Gaudreau is someone I'd love to see us go after. Upcoming UFA and Minnesota is unlikely to be able to extend him considering their upcoming cap retention hell.

 

[Duncstar]

I am drooling at the thought of a Sanderson Karlsson top pairing!

I wonder how Karlsson will age? As he does play with his mind a lot, he could last a long time like Gonchar who was still a good player when he slowed down. Although his injury history could catch up to him again.

Stay away from 65. I really think our interest in Chychrun is it let's us control the market. We could prob get a good RHD from LA for Chychrun or Chabot.

Say we do a 3 way...

Ottawa : RHD (either good prospect or established player)

LA : LHD (Chychrun)

Arizona: LA 1st rounder, LA prospect, Ottawa 1st rounder (top 10 protected), 2nd rounder, Ottawa prospect, Zeitsev (who loses trade protection when he got waved).

 

[Duncstar]

Considering the lack of available defenseman, and the relatively solid play from JBD, it might make more sense for Dorion to focus on shoring up the 2nd C spot. Brassard is a black hole there, and we looked like a different team when Norris was playing.

Freddy Gaudreau is someone I'd love to see us go after. Upcoming UFA and Minnesota is unlikely to be able to extend him considering their upcoming cap retention hell.

I wish the coach would try

Brady - Pinto - Groux
Cat - Stutzle - Joseph
Motte - Brassard/Gambrell - Batherson
Kelly - Kastelic - Watson

Then bring up Greig in December and bump down Motte. Getting closer to a good lineup, and if Batherson still struggles, switch him and Joseph.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If you're bringing in Karlsson you'd probably have to move out Chabot in a separate deal.

It's not as crazy as it sounds, because if SJ retained 30% on EK, swapping him in for Chabot would be cap neutral but save ~$11M in cash over the next 4 years. Plus, the price you'd pay to acquire Karlsson (since he has a full NMC) would almost certainly be lower than the assets you could acquire if you moved Chabot out to another team.

Essentially, you could replace Chabot with Karlsson as your top offensive D and PP QB, use Chabot to go out and get a cheaper, more defensive D (let's say an extended Gavrikov + additional assets from Columbus), and then use the cash savings to extend Zub.

Will it ever happen? No since it's not NHL23. But interesting to think about.

With Sandy looking the way he had, I would happily do Chabot for Karlsson one for one/in separate deals if salaries were equalized with retention. I think it would absolutely end up as a net positive for the team both on the ice and from a marketing perspective.

 

[bert]

With Sandy looking the way he had, I would happily do Chabot for Karlsson one for one/in separate deals if salaries were equalized with retention. I think it would absolutely end up as a net positive for the team both on the ice and from a marketing perspective.

Are you serious? Chabot is 25. He didnt just forget how to play hockey. One player had negative value going into this season and one had massive value. That didnt change completely after 15 games. I actually cant believe some of the stuff I am reading on here lately.

This team was 4-2 when mostly healthy. Thats without Formenton and Talbot. With suspect coaching. Their best players are all 25 and under. They are currently 4th last in the NHL trading your 25 year old stud d man for a 32 year old with a massive cap hit and a serious injury history is not the way to approach the sens situation or roster.

If St Louis is actually considering trading Parayko the sens should be all over it. No idea the cost but he is exactly what they need.

 

[Micklebot]

If St Louis is actually considering trading Parayko the sens should be all over it. No idea the cost but he is exactly what they need.

He'd be pretty ideal imo, would an amazing partner for Sanderson.

Doubt we'd be able to pry him out though.

 

[NyQuil]

Between COVID-19 and injury, Karlsson hasn't played more than ~50 games since 2017-2018.

 

[bert]

He'd be pretty ideal imo, would an amazing partner for Sanderson.

Doubt we'd be able to pry him out though.

Thats one player id consider moving Debrincat for. If there was more clarity on the Formenton situation it would make it alot easier to make a deal.

Between COVID-19 and injury, Karlsson hasn't played more than ~50 games since 2017-2018.

The leeway of Karlsson being injured and being a shell of himself over the last 4 years compared to Chabot having a bad 15 games is insane.

 

[Micklebot]

Thats one player id consider moving Debrincat for. If there was more clarity on the Formenton situation it would make it alot easier to make a deal.

Yeah...

A top 4 of:

Sanderson - Parayko
Chabot - Zub

Dare to dream...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Are you serious? Chabot is 25. He didnt just forget how to play hockey. One player had negative value going into this season and one had massive value. That didnt change completely after 15 games. I actually cant believe some of the stuff I am reading on here lately.

This team was 4-2 when mostly healthy. Thats without Formenton and Talbot. With suspect coaching. Their best players are all 25 and under. They are currently 4th last in the NHL trading your 25 year old stud d man for a 32 year old with a massive cap hit and a serious injury history is not the way to approach the sens situation or roster.

If St Louis is actually considering trading Parayko the sens should be all over it. No idea the cost but he is exactly what they need.

Yes, without question, but that doesn't mean I don't like Chabot. I think the decline of Karlsson has been grossly exaggerated and Chabot will never be as good as what Karlsson's doing this year or was at his peak. It's obviously a risk, but its one I would make, expecially knowing Sanderson is already arguably better than Chabot and would shift our riches to the right a bit instead.

If you believe this is nothing more than a blip from Karlsson, that's fine and is a fair argument, but lets not pretend he isn't a top 10 player in the league right now this year and that's why it's garnered discussion. That much right now is a fact and the only question is if he maintains it or not. I don't know that I expect him to be the best player in the league forever, but he is not cooked imo. Chabot will never be that, so in a bubble, ya I take a shot for our old generational player that I've kept an eye on since he left since I'm on the west coast.

And I'm just fine staying the course too, but they need to re-sign Zub or it looks like a bit of a shit show on the right side.

The marketing side of things would be a pretty big bonus too. We're talking hypothetically about the idea of the best player the franchise has ever had and the 2nd most beloved being brought back, that'd be pretty buzzworthy and if he kept playing like he is now, it would be a steal on the ice.

 

[otown]

Karlsson is a no go and has the potential to ruin any chemistry that is in place. Pretty big ego and a former captain. Not a sideline kind of guy even when other leaders are already in place!
Re-signing Zub has to be the number 1 priority, but it would be understandable why he wants to test the market. The Sens will have to pay up in order to keep him.
Debrincat is also pressing business and if the Sens don't relay the message to all players that they are serious in keeping the core together it will be 1 step forward and 2 steps backward! PD has his work cut out for him and it will define him as a GM for better or worse! Given the pending ownership change he has to come out of this making some solid moves for the future or he is toast!

 

[bert]

Yes, without question, but that doesn't mean I don't like Chabot. I think the decline of Karlsson has been grossly exaggerated and Chabot will never be as good as what Karlsson's doing this year or was at his peak. It's obviously a risk, but its one I would make, expecially knowing Sanderson is already arguably better than Chabot and would shift our riches to the right a bit instead.

If you believe this is nothing more than a blip from Karlsson, that's fine and is a fair argument, but lets not pretend he isn't a top 10 player in the league right now this year and that's why it's garnered discussion. That much right now is a fact and the only question is if he maintains it or not. I don't know that I expect him to be the best player in the league forever, but he is not cooked imo. Chabot will never be that, so in a bubble, ya I take a shot for our old generational player that I've kept an eye on since he left since I'm on the west coast.

And I'm just fine staying the course too, but they need to re-sign Zub or it looks like a bit of a shit show on the right side.

You are really basing this way too much off a 15 game sample size. In 2 to 3 years who do you think will be a better player?..... Chabots been better than Karlsson the last 3 years. Karlsson literally has 17 games on him over the last 200. Why does it matter who is better right now anyway? Ottawa isnt remotely close to contending. I never said Karlsson isnt playing out of his mind he is but again that doesnt mean anything to Ottawa right now. He is also playing like this to get out of San Jose.

You need two good pairings to be an elite team. The righty lefty thing doesnt matter when the sens have no other lefties that are top 4 guys after Chabot and Sanderson.

 

[GCK]

Yeah, that will come down, but cut it in half and he's still leading all D in the league in pts.

He’s a career 6.8% shooter. They can’t take away the ones he has but it would definitely seem there is an element of puck luck at the moment. Still fun to follow

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He is rocking an 18.6 shooting%

Also looks like the sharks are giving him insane freedom and the forwards are covering for him

 

[Alf Silfversson]

We really need a good shutdown RD. If the player in question can make a decent first pass out of the zone, it's a bonus. Their bread and butter should be as a big, nasty MF in front of our net and making life easier for our netminders.

We tried that with Gudbranson and J. Bro .

A player like that is not the answer. We need Zub re-signed and then we need to clone him.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Are you serious? Chabot is 25. He didnt just forget how to play hockey. One player had negative value going into this season and one had massive value. That didnt change completely after 15 games. I actually cant believe some of the stuff I am reading on here lately.

This team was 4-2 when mostly healthy. Thats without Formenton and Talbot. With suspect coaching. Their best players are all 25 and under. They are currently 4th last in the NHL trading your 25 year old stud d man for a 32 year old with a massive cap hit and a serious injury history is not the way to approach the sens situation or roster.

If St Louis is actually considering trading Parayko the sens should be all over it. No idea the cost but he is exactly what they need.

You forgot the biggest part of the hypothetical conversation. Obviously, Chabot at $8M AAV is better than Karlsson at $11.5M AAV. But if San Jose retains 30%, it's not as cut and dry. At that point, the cap hits would be the same but Karlsson would be ~$2.75M cheaper, per year, over the course of 4 years, in real dollars.

And it wouldn't be Chabot for Karlsson straight up. That's not a trade San Jose would make. They want picks and prospects to kick off a multi-year rebuild. Karlsson for Chabot straight-up would save them zero dollars.

It'd be trading for Karlsson, and then flipping Chabot to another team for, likely, significantly more assets than what you gave up to acquire EK.

The scenario would be:

Swap Karlsson for Chabot. You get better production for less money. Then add additional assets (young players, picks) that can be used to shore up other areas.

This would only work in a scenario where Karlsson is specific that he'd only go to a couple of teams, with Ottawa being one of those teams, since then you could get him for a minimal price. It'd be an arbitrage opportunity.

 

[GCK]

Thats one player id consider moving Debrincat for. If there was more clarity on the Formenton situation it would make it alot easier to make a deal.


The leeway of Karlsson being injured and being a shell of himself over the last 4 years compared to Chabot having a bad 15 games is insane.

We will have clarity on Formenton in 12 days. If he’s not signed by Dec 1 then he won’t play this year.

 

[Micklebot]

He’s a career 6.8% shooter. They can’t take away the ones he has but it would definitely seem there is an element of puck luck at the moment. Still fun to follow

Absolutely, but as I said even at half the goals he still leads the league in Dmen pts, going forward maybe you project the rest of his year as scoring on about 6-8% of his shots, but that still has him pacing at ~100 pts.

 

[NyQuil]

We will have clarity on Formenton in 12 days. If he’s not signed by Dec 1 then he won’t play this year.

I'm not holding my breath.

I'm pretty sure the amount of time that has already transpired is clarity enough.

 

[HSF]

Thats one player id consider moving Debrincat for. If there was more clarity on the Formenton situation it would make it alot easier to make a deal.


The leeway of Karlsson being injured and being a shell of himself over the last 4 years compared to Chabot having a bad 15 games is insane.

you rather trade Cat then give up Greig?

Cat is becoming so underrated here

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yeah...

A top 4 of:

Sanderson - Parayko
Chabot - Zub

Dare to dream...

Probably wouldn't work financially, since Sanderson is getting $8M+ on his deal after next season.

Realistically, the Sens are limited in what they can do if they want to keep all 3 of Chabot, Zub and Sanderson. They just have to hope JBD pans out.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Karlsson is a no go and has the potential to ruin any chemistry that is in place. Pretty big ego and a former captain. Not a sideline kind of guy even when other leaders are already in place!
Re-signing Zub has to be the number 1 priority, but it would be understandable why he wants to test the market. The Sens will have to pay up in order to keep him.
Debrincat is also pressing business and if the Sens don't relay the message to all players that they are serious in keeping the core together it will be 1 step forward and 2 steps backward! PD has his work cut out for him and it will define him as a GM for better or worse! Given the pending ownership change he has to come out of this making some solid moves for the future or he is toast!

That's a fine opinion, and it's never going to happen anyways, but this is not fact written in stone, it could just as easily be just fine with him fitting in with the boys.

You are really basing this way too much off a 15 game sample size. In 2 to 3 years who do you think will be a better player?..... Chabots been better than Karlsson the last 3 years. Karlsson literally has 17 games on him over the last 200. Why does it matter who is better right now anyway? Ottawa isnt remotely close to contending. I never said Karlsson isnt playing out of his mind he is but again that doesnt mean anything to Ottawa right now. He is also playing like this to get out of San Jose.

You need two good pairings to be an elite team. The righty lefty thing doesnt matter when the sens have no other lefties that are top 4 guys after Chabot and Sanderson.

Karlsson was really good last year too if you were watching. Not this kind of production, but he was playing really well before the injury both according to my eyes and Sharks fans. He was just fine there early on and cratered the same time the whole team did pretty much in unison. Burns out of the way and new coach and blam, he's killing it. Could go back to nothing, but I'm wagering he's figured it out. This is not some regular talent, this was a generational type talent that like Lemieux, Forsberg and many others before them may just have enough juice to play well after adjusting to body limitations.

I get it. Beyond the personality, it's an age argument, but yes, I am in fact arguing that a 35 year old could absolutely outperform a 28 year old. I think we would both agree that Thomas will never be as good as Karlsson was here or has been so far this year.

And I agree that the righty/lefty situation is not the end of the world, but in a perfect situation our two best D are a LD/RD split. Zub's future in the air creates a lot of doubt about the position and I'd feel a lot better if we knew he were staying.