HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Mrb1p]

Dach has done squat in the league so far and until he does I refuse to believe that he is this great no. 2 center that everyones thinks he will be. I need to see it before I anoint him king.

The discussion isn't about any of that.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

IMO you hang onto Matheson until the Trade deadline. If we’re somehow in the mix for a Top 5 pick, something is clearly catastrophically wrong and we should definitely consider trading Matheson for top pop while we still can.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Matheson chat is very spicy but I have to ask: don't you think it's entirely a function of how the Habs play this year?

He's not getting traded before the season starts, right?

So barring a catastrophic collapse between the start until c. January, he's not going to be traded.

At the trade deadline, if the Habs are sellers/out-of-it, it'll likely be a function of high GA and low GF (both) -- both work against his trade value btw.

The next chance we can reasonably guess he can be marketed is after this coming season. Who knows what will happen between now and then?

He's not getting traded because people are overly attached to grown men playing on their team. It's lame.

And because Hughes is overly attached to his clients. Great GM, but it's a clear flaw.

 

[ReHabs]

He's not getting traded because people are overly attached to grown men playing on their team. It's lame.

And because Hughes is overly attached to his clients. Great GM, but it's a clear flaw.

At what point did you think Matheson should've been traded / should be traded?

 

[DAChampion]

FYI 38 Years old MSL
View attachment 904030

Exactly, no gold mine.

 

[Mrb1p]

Exactly, no gold mine.

It's equivalent to 1st 2nd and something like Alex Newhook. It's no gold mine but it's certainly not what Perry got.

At what point did you think Matheson should've been traded / should be traded?

The second he started being a problem to the development of core players, IE Guhle and Hutson.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

None of Perry, Kovalchuk, or Gonchar would have warranted a gold mine, and neither will Crosby.

FYI

On February 27, 1996, the Kings traded Wayne Gretzky to the St. Louis Blues for Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, Roman Vopat, a 1996 fifth round draft pick (Peter Hogan), and a 1997 first round draft pick (Matt Zultek).

Crosby’s a really interesting hypothetical. I mean him coming here would be awesome but I can’t see him leaving Pittsburgh. And I don’t see Pittsburgh wants to move him.

But it’s also not an impossible scenario.

 

[Mrb1p]

Crosby’s a really interesting hypothetical. I mean him coming here would be awesome but I can’t see him leaving Pittsburgh. And I don’t see Pittsburgh wants to move him.

But it’s also not an impossible scenario.

I hope Pittsburgh moves him for their sake and Sids sake.

 

[BaseballCoach]

No I won't because I want Guhle-Hutson-Xhekaj to be the 3LDs, Matheson can f*** off.

......

He's not getting traded because people are overly attached to grown men playing on their team. It's lame.

And because Hughes is overly attached to his clients. Great GM, but it's a clear flaw.

You seem quite attached to Xhekaj, to the point that you LITERALLY wished Matheson, our top offensive d-man at the moment, to f*** off

If real GMs like KH ever want a player to f*** off, they trade him for nothing. You'd be happy with that?

 

[Mrb1p]

You seem quite attached to Xhekaj, to the point that you LITERALLY wished Matheson, our top offensive d-man at the moment, to f*** off.

If real GMs like KH ever want a player to f*** off, they trade him for nothing. You'd be happy with that?

If it means never watching him turnover the puck in the most stupid way I've ever seen that makes me want to gouge my eyes out ? Yes.

The good thing is he's obviously worth at least a 2nd round pick, if not more, so this question is rather pointless, has as been the rest of this exchange.

 

[ReHabs]

The second he started being a problem to the development of core players, IE Guhle and Hutson.

I mean, in reality. Did you want him traded this summer prior to the Laine acquisition? How about after the Laine acquisition -- should he be traded now? I'm trying to understand your argument.

Hutson will have to earn a spot, right, so if he does and he can play more and more minutes I think then and only then should Hughes look at what he should do with his musical chairs. Hughes won't get in the way of Hutson's development, so you don't need to worry about that.

For posterity: I wanted a more intense firesale since the beginning, but since that didn't happen I wanted a more intense attempt to rebuild and get back into the saddle. I'm relieved + glad to see the Habs pick up Demidov because we ended up just alright (well, it depends on Reinbacher...). So I felt around the time of the draft that we won't get Demidov so we could/should sell one of Guhle/Matheson and get more picks and do another tough-to-swallow tank year. Or sell one of Guhle/Matheson and pick up Zegras and do some moves from there.

Overall I'm not overly attached to Matheson and believe, as you do, that we should sell-high. But... we have Laine now. It changes things... you can't sell Matheson now when we look like we could have a playoff team. Let's hope Hutson forces the issue and gives Hughes a headache.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean, in reality. Did you want him traded this summer prior to the Laine acquisition? How about after the Laine acquisition -- should he be traded now? I'm trying to understand your argument.

Hutson will have to earn a spot, right, so if he does and he can play more and more minutes I think then and only then should Hughes look at what he should do with his musical chairs. Hughes won't get in the way of Hutson's development, so you don't need to worry about that.

For posterity: I wanted a more intense firesale since the beginning, but since that didn't happen I wanted a more intense attempt to rebuild and get back into the saddle. I'm relieved + glad to see the Habs pick up Demidov because we ended up just alright (well, it depends on Reinbacher...). So I felt around the time of the draft that we won't get Demidov so we could/should sell one of Guhle/Matheson and get more picks and do another tough-to-swallow tank year. Or sell one of Guhle/Matheson and pick up Zegras and do some moves from there.

Overall I'm not overly attached to Matheson and believe, as you do, that we should sell-high. But... we have Laine now. It changes things... you can't sell Matheson now when we look like we could have a playoff team. Let's hope Hutson forces the issue and gives Hughes a headache.

I'm fine with waiting to see what happens to Hutson, the problem arises the moment Hutson makes the team.

I can't have Guhle on the right side, Xhekaj or Struble sitting and Hutson playing 2nd PP. If Hutson is good enough, Matheson needs to leave.

Prior to that too I always said we should look to find a way to swap Matheson for a defense first veteran RD. Larsson, Parayko, Roy, etc. It allows us to maybe even move Savard if we did so.

 

[morhilane]

The Matheson chat is very spicy but I have to ask: don't you think it's entirely a function of how the Habs play this year?

He's not getting traded before the season starts, right?
...

The way I see it, if Hutson and one of Reinbacher/Mailloux makes the team at camp, one of Xhekaj or Matheson needs to be traded (Struble can stick around as the #7D and Guhle gets moved back to LD).

 

[ReHabs]

I'm fine with waiting to see what happens to Hutson, the problem arises the moment Hutson makes the team.

I can't have Guhle on the right side, Xhekaj or Struble sitting and Hutson playing 2nd PP. If Hutson is good enough, Matheson needs to leave.

I don't think the Habs should pre-emptively trade Matheson for cents on the dollar prior to the start of the season to make room for Hutson/Guhle. There will be injuries and having the depth to play meaningful games deep into the season is important for the overall health of the roster.

Matheson doesn't fit with the core as it is, that's true, but right now he's the most trusted d-man. Someone's gotta take his spot, hopefully Guhle.

Prior to that too I always said we should look to find a way to swap Matheson for a defense first veteran RD. Larsson, Parayko, Roy, etc. It allows us to maybe even move Savard if we did so.

Sell Savard for picks and swap Matheson for another RD?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The way I see it, if Hutson and one of Reinbacher/Mailloux makes the team at camp, one of Xhekaj or Matheson needs to be traded (Struble can stick around as the #7D and Guhle gets moved back to LD).

Unless he turns out to be a defensive black hole Xhekaj is not going to be traded.

 

[Miller Time]

So it is irrelevant to what we were talking about and analysing, and yet you forced it into the discussion. How boring.

Sure, if you feel data points are irrelevant, you do you. Explains a lot.

I'm sorry you missed the subtext, as you tend to do, the point made is "IF" Barron doesn't improve in X, Y, and Z he will not become an important player. Just like Harris and myriad other defenders, their capacity for physicality is extremely important in the NHL.

Clearly you didn't read, or didn't understand, the post you replied to.

I can't help you with that.

Many wanted Slaf to improve his game elsewhere. How lucky he was that he improved his game in the NHL and at such a rapid trajectory. Barron is not Slafkovsky but he may yet improve his lot in the NHL... if he improves his physicality. That is the root of the discussion.

Yup, pure luck that the coach & GM were bang on in their assessment and the approach they laid out clearly in advance worked out as plan lol

News flash. Prospects improve over time, or they don't become NHL regulars. Slaf is not at all unique in that respect.

I nailed the Laine trade while many missed it. We all have hits and misses.

Nailed the Laine trade?

I'm sorry, care to share where you predicted that they'd send us a pick and take only Harris in return

I too speculated that Laine was a great target. Trade proposals is a very different thing than player evaluation lol

Why mention Matheson when you can look at Mete? Mete never got his physical game together and is no more than a journeyman at best.

Because you made a factually incorrect statement that no player with that profile succeeds in the NHL.

Pointing out that some failed is completely irrelevant. Lots of physical prospect dmen failed to make it as well.

Pointing out even 1 example of a player, like Matheson (or literally 100's of others) that do, highlights the flaw in your take. I picked Matheson because he's right here in front of you. Your picture is fuzzy, I hoped the obvious example might open up a simple laugh off & move on


Fine to walk it back, silly to keep pivoting to avoid owning that it was an obviously wrong statement.

 

[ReHabs]

News flash. Prospects improve over time, or they don't become NHL regulars.

Many don't improve sufficiently. Hence the commentary about Barron -- what should improve (his physicality). @Kobe Armstrong said Barron's terrible in his end because he's not physical and avoids it. I contributed to your response by stating it is hard to imagine his success if he doesn't have either more physicality or phenomenal stick and puck skills.

Hope this helped.

Pointing out that some failed is completely irrelevant. Lots of physical prospect dmen failed to make it as well.

It's not irrelevant to state that many prospects don't improve sufficiently when discussing a prospect who needs to improve.

Victor Mete failed in the NHL because he never built up his physical game. This fate could await Barron if he doesn't improve.

 

[calder candidate]

Barron is 22yo already has the size, skating for the NHL might also already be adequate offensively with 30pts in 94 and it not like he was playing with Mcdavid… He definitely a asset that need to be managed regardless Reinbacher, Hutson, Struble and Mailloux either or all of them can start in the AHL until Savard is moved. He is still ahead of a of most D is age there and as room to grow.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't think the Habs should pre-emptively trade Matheson for cents on the dollar prior to the start of the season to make room for Hutson/Guhle. There will be injuries and having the depth to play meaningful games deep into the season is important for the overall health of the roster.

Matheson doesn't fit with the core as it is, that's true, but right now he's the most trusted d-man. Someone's gotta take his spot, hopefully Guhle.

Sell Savard for picks and swap Matheson for another RD?

It was never about trading him for cents on the dollar, we could clearly have a very good return right now for him, be it a roster player or future assets. Guhle is already the most trusted D as he is the one tasked to baby-sit Mothersmilk on his offside. It has already happened.

If we trade Matheson for a vet RD, it opens up the possibility of moving Savard later, if it is a necessity. Thus creating more assets, a younger team and a more balanced team.

Barron is 22yo already has the size, skating for the NHL might also already be adequate offensively with 30pts in 94 and it not like he was playing with Mcdavid… He definitely a asset that need to be managed regardless Reinbacher, Hutson, Struble and Mailloux either or all of them can start in the AHL until Savard is moved. He is still ahead of a of most D is age there and as room to grow.

Yes he is. Matheson had 7 NHL games at his age.

Guhle-Savard-Barron until Matheson is traded and/or Mailloux/DR are ready.

 

[Archijerej]

Unless he turns out to be a defensive black hole Xhekaj is not going to be traded.

I thinks he's pretty much in that territory right now.

The whole idea was to try and get him out of that black hole.

 

[ReHabs]

It was never about trading him for cents on the dollar, we could clearly have a very good return right now for him, be it a roster player or future assets.

I don’t think on the eve of training camp is when you maximize returns but Pacioretty was traded at this point, so maybe?

I think Hughes sees Matheson as an important cog in the machine (until he’s made redundant) rather than as an expiring asset worth maximizing. So I wouldn’t bet on this trade.

 

[tazsub3]

I don’t think on the eve of training camp is when you maximize returns but Pacioretty was traded at this point, so maybe?

I think Hughes sees Matheson as an important cog in the machine (until he’s made redundant) rather than as an expiring asset worth maximizing. So I wouldn’t bet on this trade.

But he ain’t even expiring. If this team wants to take the step forward as they should , they better with him then without
On the other hand , Savard will depend on how the year is going.
We close he stays, we out of it , he is traded

 

[Mrb1p]

But he ain’t even expiring. If this team wants to take the step forward as they should , they better with him then without
On the other hand , Savard will depend on how the year is going.
We close he stays, we out of it , he is traded

Assuming Hutson is ready, at least for PP1 and a 3rd pairing sheltered role, are we really better off with him? We're also assuming the return is not a roster player.

Guhle-Larsson
Hutson-Savard
Xhekaj-Barron

 

[BaseballCoach]

I mean, in reality. Did you want him traded this summer prior to the Laine acquisition? How about after the Laine acquisition -- should he be traded now? I'm trying to understand your argument.

Hutson will have to earn a spot, right, so if he does and he can play more and more minutes I think then and only then should Hughes look at what he should do with his musical chairs. Hughes won't get in the way of Hutson's development, so you don't need to worry about that.

For posterity: I wanted a more intense firesale since the beginning, but since that didn't happen I wanted a more intense attempt to rebuild and get back into the saddle. I'm relieved + glad to see the Habs pick up Demidov because we ended up just alright (well, it depends on Reinbacher...). So I felt around the time of the draft that we won't get Demidov so we could/should sell one of Guhle/Matheson and get more picks and do another tough-to-swallow tank year. Or sell one of Guhle/Matheson and pick up Zegras and do some moves from there.

Overall I'm not overly attached to Matheson and believe, as you do, that we should sell-high. But... we have Laine now. It changes things... you can't sell Matheson now when we look like we could have a playoff team. Let's hope Hutson forces the issue and gives Hughes a headache.

Hutson could force his way onto the team and there would still be room for the 9th most prolific defenceman in the league. Even a top-96 D fits at $4.875M.

But if Struble gets 50 points or Xhekaj gets 45 in addition to Hutson breaking out, talk to me.

By the way, I have no allergy to key players over 30. EVERY Cup winner has them!!

Nor is my name BargainBin unwilling to pay market value for top half of the team talent.

I'm pretty sure you are on the same page with those thoughts, and don't agree with those afraid Laine will score 40+ cuz he might want good money.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't think the Habs should pre-emptively trade Matheson for cents on the dollar prior to the start of the season to make room for Hutson/Guhle. There will be injuries and having the depth to play meaningful games deep into the season is important for the overall health of the roster.

Matheson doesn't fit with the core as it is, that's true, but right now he's the most trusted d-man. Someone's gotta take his spot, hopefully Guhle.

Crazy thought but what if the Habs had TWO top-3 Ds? Is that too much?

In my opinion it is only too much if your secret desire is to tank for a top-5 pick again for the next two seasons.