HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[LaP]

Two 1st (14-20), Mailloux and Hage is too much. We are talking about Crosby yes but he doesn't come in his prime and he is a pending UFA.

What the player could end up doesn't measure up to what rating they have today as a prosect. Those are 4 1st round quality pieces. It's too much bud.



I bet you Dubas is going to explain the opportunity of a accelerated rebuild. The worse thing you can do is delay it when you know it's coming. You can get assets now vs less assets later. Look at how the Habs accelerated rebuild is going. It's not just pieces coming from our own picks.

If you delay the rebuild or miss the opportunity, you might have 5-10 years of rebuild and putting fans in the seats is a bigger problem vs a potential 1-5 year rebuild.

It's hard trading a Crosby. But they should do it. Do it for the player cause you don't want to see Crosby ending his career with a bottom 10 team for 3-4 years. He might not want to move now after all nobody likes to move but i think when everything will be said and done he wont regret it. Do it for the team as it would acelerate the rebuild by a few years. They can get a 1st round pick and a top quality prospect + lesser parts for him which is pretty much two drafts worth of value. The year after you trade Malkin you'll get les but certain a 1st and a lesser quality prospect. Then the following year it's Karlsson. Keep Rust and Rackell as vet à la Gallagher and Anderson. Retain on Letang and try to find a taker.

They can get easily three 1st round picks + a top quality prospect + lessers prospects and picks. That's multiple years worth of picks and young players. The rebuild is inevitable and they can't afford to stay in the basement for 10+ years their market is not solid enough for that. Their situation is different than Caps. Caps has a better prospects pool they can afford to keep Ovie as a vet and Ovie is about to break Wayne's record and you want that to happen in Washington. It also historically has been a stronger market.

 

[BLONG7]

I suppose I should have started with the question of what your goals are for next season... Do you want to improve or do you want to tank again?

If you guys want to win and you are riding with Barron... my question is why? There is absolutely no place for him on this team long term

He 100% needs to be sheltered defensively, as does Hutson, Xhekaj and Matheson. He will not get any PP time here either. When Mailloux gets called up that's another defenseman who can't play defense that we will need to shelter. Is the long term plan to have Guhle just carry all of the heavy lifting on defense?

Comparing Barron to Karlsson is hilarious by the way, Karlsson is the best offensive d-men of the past 25 years and is probably still better at defense than Barron.

I remember EK65 go a healthy minus -6 vs the habs one game a couple of years back.....it's a good thing he can create offense eh......................habs won that game 7-2 by the way.
Good thing EK was on the ice that night, he really punched his weight.

Barron is 22 for gods sake.......he needs to learn the pro game yes, but guess what he like EK is great in the offensive side of the game, so let's not throw him in the landfill yet.

 

[DAChampion]

[
Pending UFA that is a top 5 center in the NHL does worth a lot though

Crosby will be 37 years old at the deadline.

 

[BLONG7]

Karlsson was an elite offensive talent & skater (prior to tendon injuries)…. Barron is nowhere near elite.

Karlsson is also not shy to play “dirty” when needed including taunting the opposition…. Barron is scared of his own shadow.

Karlsson is also garbage in his own end...................everyone knows this.................

 

[Sterling Archer]

I predict Crosby won't bring in a bajillion assets, as I do for every big name about to be traded.

For example, he will be worth less than Jack Eichel was when he was traded.

This 1,000%. Crosby is a UFA next year with a full NMC. He’ll dictate where he goes and where he signs. He’s also at the end of his career so he’s not a 27 yo at his peak. Look at 35+ elite players and what they fetched in a trade and it’s not prohibitive. Even Gretzky got peanuts when traded to St. Louis. St. Louis Blues: A Look Back At The Wayne Gretzky Trade
MSL didn’t get a boat load either when he asked to be traded to the Rangers. The 2014 Rangers-Lightning Blockbuster That Reshaped Both Franchises - The Hockey Writers Hockey History Latest News, Analysis & More.
Manly more instances like this. It’ll coast something but nowhere near where some may think.

Crosby is steering this and he’ll go where he wants to. He’s given enough to the Pens.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I thought Crosby had zero intention of leaving Pittsburgh and that's how all his guys got new deals?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I wanted to make a joke, but discovered there's a fair amount of kids named Crosby on EP. That's as a first name.

Crosby Mateychuk - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Crosby Mateychuk, 2010-02-25 Canada. Most recently in the undefined with Eastman Selects U15 AAA. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

If he's close to being as good as his brother...

 

[LaP]

The optics for pens are really bad if they trade Crosby. They need bums in seats. I think no chance he is traded.

The optics are worse if they don't. Their prospects pool is extremely thin. They have Owen Pickering, Rugter McGroarty and Joel Blomqvist. That's about it. If they don't acquire extra picks/prospects they could be in the bottom 10 for many many years to come.

 

[DAChampion]

The optics for pens are really bad if they trade Crosby. They need bums in seats. I think no chance he is traded.

I think the optics are bad if Pittsburgh keeps Crosby. That old core can no longer win. They need a new core.

Their problem is that they're unlikely to draft a pair as good as Crosby/Malkin let alone Lemieux/Jagr. It might be hard for Pittsburgh fans. The rebuild might be long and miserable. But they might as well kickstart it by trading away their old core or what's left of it.

 

[vokiel]

Fabbro is mediocre. They would likely get a 3rd.
Fabbro has no offensive ability at all. Barron does.

Barron has as much offensive ability as a toad, I bet they get a 2nd for Fabbro and that's a better return.

 

[DAChampion]

Barron has as much offensive ability as a toad

Simply not correct.

 

[Miller Time]

It’s interesting because Barron plays scared to the point he gives up ice and position and Matheson is actually really tough. Matter of interpreting “physical” I guess.

Evidently does not translate to frequency of hits, I suspect getting position is more useful than giving up possession to be sure you’re not the one taking the hit.

As you say, one is much more physically mature than the other at this point.

Again, I don't see "scared" of contact, I see hesitant... Hesitation could come from fear of contact, but there's evidence that avoiding contact isn't the issue, and I think both his AHL play and volume of hits reaffirms that.

Hesitation also comes from fear of making a mistake. Barron's game shows a lot of that, though I acknowledge that this is much harder to ground with any statistical evidence.

Matheson is a better defender across the board. There was never an intent or implication on my part that Barron is better or more physical.

I was simply pointing out the fact that Barron has double the recorded volume of hits per ice time (people can infer whatever they want from that statistic).

Matheson only came up because of one poster making the baseless and silly claim that a player can't succeed as an NHL dman with a profile like Barron's. The two had very similar profiles as prospects and early career pro's... Barron is just a bit bigger and a bit more successful as a pro at the same age.

Matheson grew to the player he is because of his great work ethic and commitment to improve. Does Barron have that level of drive? Remains to be seen...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Can Fabbro? I haven't watched him much.

More reliable overall

 

[Naslundforever]

Again, I don't see "scared" of contact, I see hesitant... Hesitation could come from fear of contact, but there's evidence that avoiding contact isn't the issue, and I think both his AHL play and volume of hits reaffirms that.

Hesitation also comes from fear of making a mistake. Barron's game shows a lot of that, though I acknowledge that this is much harder to ground with any statistical evidence.

Matheson is a better defender across the board. There was never an intent or implication on my part that Barron is better or more physical.

I was simply pointing out the fact that Barron has double the recorded volume of hits per ice time (people can infer whatever they want from that statistic).

Matheson only came up because of one poster making the baseless and silly claim that a player can't succeed as an NHL dman with a profile like Barron's. The two had very similar profiles as prospects and early career pro's... Barron is just a bit bigger and a bit more successful as a pro at the same age.

Matheson grew to the player he is because of his great work ethic and commitment to improve. Does Barron have that level of drive? Remains to be seen...

All good we certainly agree Barron has big upside and tons of room to grow (and time!) even if I think guys who try and get to the puck first will have fewer hits to show for it.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Also this team doesn't need a 38 year olds Crosby for next season. Who cares if generational . A guy on his last 2 years of a long career will not change anything in the future for us.

He should retire in Pittsburgh or go anywhere he wants to get a last run of a cup before he retires and it's not happening in Montreal or Pittsburgh

 

[Miller Time]

I suppose I should have started with the question of what your goals are for next season... Do you want to improve or do you want to tank again?

I want to improve. We improved last year from the year before quite noticeably imo... Far more than the W% indicates.

I want to see us build a contender. At our stage in that process, Win/Loss record is not the most important variable.

If you guys want to win and you are riding with Barron... my question is why? There is absolutely no place for him on this team long term

You may have a crystal ball, but you'd be better picking lotto #'s than wasting time here educating us about how a 22 year old will progress long term.

The Panthers best defender on their cup run was less established and successful than Barron at the same age... I'm sure plenty of Blackhawks & Canucks Nostradamus types were just as confident about Forsling having "absolutely no place on their teams long term".

He 100% needs to be sheltered defensively, as does Hutson, Xhekaj and Matheson. He will not get any PP time here either. When Mailloux gets called up that's another defenseman who can't play defense that we will need to shelter. Is the long term plan to have Guhle just carry all of the heavy lifting on defense?

We'll see.

Plenty of posters were just as sure about Slaf needing to be sheltered... Until he wasn't. Young players develop and progress at different paces. Barron could plateau, he could regress, and he could take a big step forward. Your confidence in the most skeptical version of his potential isn't grounded on anything concrete from what you've posted this far.

Petry was also a complete shitter at 22

It's as if some posters have no capacity to understand context, or even simply recall what happened last season. It's fascinating

 

[Miller Time]

Actually, it's easily worse. A hit count doesn't measure how a player positions himself against forecheckers. I use my eyes, not a spreadsheet. Most can tell Barron's big flaws are on the defensive and physical side of things. It needn't be so controversial.

A hit measures... A hit. That's it.

Barron has limitations, no doubt. That was never in question. I think you first replied without reading the post. The point was about what's at the root of the limitations. Some issues can and do regularly fade away, others don't.

Slaf early last year was quite clearly close to figuring it out, but many couldn't see those obvious signs... Confusing hesitation with low hockey IQ. I think some confuse Barron's hesitation with fear or avoidance of contact. I was bang on in what I saw with Slaf, Time will tell if I'm accurate on what I see in Barron's limitations.

Your eyes fooled you last year, doesn't appear that you've fixed the prescription.

Apples and Oranges: I'm talking about the present and you're talking about some other player's alleged playing style eight years ago for some reason.

Appears you don't even remember what you posted... Let me help you:

Very very hard to picture a non-physical defender ever succeeding in the NHL if he’s not a phenomenal puck/stick talent.

Matheson was not a "physical" defender at draft nor by 22.
Matheson was not a "phenomenal puck/stick talent" at draft nor by 22.

Matheson had a very similar skill and hockey strength profile to Barron at draft, and was less successful as a pro by 22.

Hence why I offered his career trajectory as a simple, obvious, and "right in front of your nose" example that could help you improve your "picture"... And avoid baseless conjectures that feed terrible takes.

Its really quite simple. NHL has tons of other examples that highlight how off the mark your take is.

No idea why you then tried to make it about a present day comparison of a 30 year old dman to a 22 year old yet to establish himself as an NHL regular... What a silly idea?

 

[vokiel]

Simply not correct.

A one legged mink?

 

[HuGort]

I still consider converting Arber to our 4th line F the ideal evolution. Add Florian and Tuch - that a tough 4th line to handle.

I don't know about that one. His shot came along ways last season. Could be a Souray type.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Crosby will be 37 years old at the deadline.

One thing that Hughes has shown in his brief tenure as Montreal’s general manager: he is no short term thinker. Hughes knows the Canadiens are still not a contender and will not squander valuable assets in what would be a largely vain attempt to jump start his calculated plan to guide his team’s return to contention. Overpaying for a pending 37 year old free agent, even if the player is named Crosby, is the wrong deal at the wrong time.

 

[BLONG7]

Again, I don't see "scared" of contact, I see hesitant... Hesitation could come from fear of contact, but there's evidence that avoiding contact isn't the issue, and I think both his AHL play and volume of hits reaffirms that.

Hesitation also comes from fear of making a mistake. Barron's game shows a lot of that, though I acknowledge that this is much harder to ground with any statistical evidence.

Matheson is a better defender across the board. There was never an intent or implication on my part that Barron is better or more physical.

I was simply pointing out the fact that Barron has double the recorded volume of hits per ice time (people can infer whatever they want from that statistic).

Matheson only came up because of one poster making the baseless and silly claim that a player can't succeed as an NHL dman with a profile like Barron's. The two had very similar profiles as prospects and early career pro's... Barron is just a bit bigger and a bit more successful as a pro at the same age.

Matheson grew to the player he is because of his great work ethic and commitment to improve. Does Barron have that level of drive? Remains to be seen...

Barron spends time in the summer working on his game, and a guy by the name of Crosby says Barron is going to be a heck of a player, so...............Barron is 22 guys. A RD at 22 is a very valuable asset. The kid is working on his game.

I know some may be thinking well, Crosby doesn't have a HF account....

 

[themilosh]

Arber is a fantastic defender with untapped potential to be a top 4 D... why would you want to convert that to a 4th line goon???

If he becomes a top 4, then yes keep him D.. otherwise 4th line F would be ideal. There is no more room for goonery, a line of Xhekaj-tuch-xhekaj would be heavy to handle.

 

[salbutera]

The optics are worse if they don't. Their prospects pool is extremely thin. They have Owen Pickering, Rugter McGroarty and Joel Blomqvist. That's about it. If they don't acquire extra picks/prospects they could be in the bottom 10 for many many years to come.

Nah…they’ll get McKenna.

Mario-Crosby-McKenna… that’s just the way it is..

Barron spends time in the summer working on his game, and a guy by the name of Crosby says Barron is going to be a heck of a player, so...............Barron is 22 guys. A RD at 22 is a very valuable asset. The kid is working on his game.

I know some may be thinking well, Crosby doesn't have a HF account....

Guys by the name of Selanne and Aho said Armia was an amazing star talent.

There’s a reason very few top end players become top end management & evaluators ..

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Barron spends time in the summer working on his game, and a guy by the name of Crosby says Barron is going to be a heck of a player, so...............Barron is 22 guys. A RD at 22 is a very valuable asset. The kid is working on his game.

I know some may be thinking well, Crosby doesn't have a HF account....

Yeah the stars love practicing with him because he doesn't hit or use his stick on defense

 

[Miller Time]

There’s a reason very few top end players become top end management & evaluators ..

Yup. $ & time.

In most sports, coaching & management is full of former high end players transitioned to roles across coaching and management.

In the few highest earning sports, that trend is less prevalent, but what is more prevalent, especially in recent years (& likely to keep increasing) is seeing former top end talent move into ownership.

Not many people in any profession will transition to full time jobs that require more hours at a fraction of the pay. That's exactly the case in major pro sports, but less so in sports where top end players don't earn millions more than their coaches & managers