HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Benstheman]

I think the optics are bad if Pittsburgh keeps Crosby. That old core can no longer win. They need a new core.

Their problem is that they're unlikely to draft a pair as good as Crosby/Malkin let alone Lemieux/Jagr. It might be hard for Pittsburgh fans. The rebuild might be long and miserable. But they might as well kickstart it by trading away their old core or what's left of it.

I think they should do what Chicago did to get Bedard and go full blown rebuild to get a shot at McKenna in 2026.

The thing is, Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson all have NMC. Malkin shouldn't be tough to deal next off-season with retained salary for his last season. He will accept to be traded to a contender i guess.

Letang and Karlsson is another story because of salary and terms. If Crosby agrees to be traded, they will want to follow and go elsewhere but there won't be many suitors. Maybe Karlsson can garner interest at 6-7 M$ per for his last 2-3 seasons. Letang could be traded if Pittsburgh get another problematic contract in return.

But all in all, it all depends on Crosby.

 

[Apfel Struble]

Engaging with Crosby to Montréal talk feel like starting to believe in it and I don't want to do that lol. It's the hope that kills you

Crosby is probably the most loyal player in the NHL, I really don't see him abandon his Pens when things go south this season or the next. I'm sure he'd even want to provide leadership for the new core as they develop

That said, yeah, he'd the absolute perfect complement to the Habs. A star alignment would need to happen for him to come here via trade or UFA:

• Pittsburgh would need to be solidly bottom 5 at the deadline point for a trade or bottom 5 at the end of the season for a UFA. At bottom 10 during the season, there is a hope for a strong comeback and he wouldn't want to miss it. If they are playoffs bound, just forget it
• Montréal on the opposite would need te be good, not quite 2022-2023 NJ Devils good, but still a strong enough team to spend the end of his career with
• If the Pens were to trade him, he'd have to favour the Habs over many teams, especially the Leafs and Oilers. The former are a consistent playoff that he could try to lead to victory and the latter is a bona fide contender that would be instant favourite were he to join them. Both would make it work cap wise. Tavares will be UFA this summer so the Leafs will have plenty to throw on him

 

[Benstheman]

Crosby will be 37 years old at the deadline.

You certanly can add Crosby for a solid pick and a secondary pick/solid prospect.

As a habs fan, i would offer habs 2026 1st + Florida 2025 1st (if it's the pick we get) + a guy like Barron/Mesar/Struble. But i wouldn't give more than that. For me, these assets are untouchables, even for Crosby :

-Habs 2025 1st
-Reinbacher
-Mailloux
-Hutson
-Hage
-Beck (borderline)

If Crosby was 30, there wouldn't be one untouchable piece, but at 37, while he is still one of the best, you cannot disrupt you main long term plan.

 

[DiglettDangles]

Also this team doesn't need a 38 year olds Crosby for next season. Who cares if generational . A guy on his last 2 years of a long career will not change anything in the future for us.

He should retire in Pittsburgh or go anywhere he wants to get a last run of a cup before he retires and it's not happening in Montreal or Pittsburgh

While I agree with your 2nd paragraph, I completely disagree with your 1st.

We don't have to look back very far (2021) to see how Perry and Staal, both massively out of their peaks, were important in carrying us to the finals and showing Suzuki and Caufield what it takes to win. Forget about organic growth and MSL's black magic. This young team will absolutely need a winner to show them how to become relevant again.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Nah…they’ll get McKenna.

Mario-Crosby-McKenna… that’s just the way it is..


Guys by the name of Selanne and Aho said Armia was an amazing star talent.

There’s a reason very few top end players become top end management & evaluators ..

Rejean Houle probably agrees.

 

[Mrb1p]

Pending UFAs in their late 30s are never worth a gold mine.

Sidney Crosby is.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Sidney Crosby is.

I’m not even convinced Crosby will let them trade him.

He’s the type of player that deserves to write his own story and I expect he’ll stay a Pen until the end.

 

[Mrb1p]

I’m not even convinced Crosby will let them trade him.

He’s the type of player that deserves to write his own story and I expect he’ll stay a Pen until the end.

He is. He's that big. Funny that some Habs fan raise their nose at such a great player after the impacts late career Perry, Kovalchuk and Gonchar have had on the team.

 

[DAChampion]

He is. He's that big. Funny that some Habs fan raise their nose at such a great player after the impacts late career Perry, Kovalchuk and Gonchar have had on the team.

None of Perry, Kovalchuk, or Gonchar would have warranted a gold mine, and neither will Crosby.

FYI

On February 27, 1996, the Kings traded Wayne Gretzky to the St. Louis Blues for Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, Roman Vopat, a 1996 fifth round draft pick (Peter Hogan), and a 1997 first round draft pick (Matt Zultek).

 

[Mrb1p]

None of Perry, Kovalchuk, or Gonchar would have warranted a gold mine, and neither will Crosby.

FYI

On February 27, 1996, the Kings traded Wayne Gretzky to the St. Louis Blues for Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, Roman Vopat, a 1996 fifth round draft pick (Peter Hogan), and a 1997 first round draft pick (Matt Zultek).

I don't understand why you're reffering to Kovalchuk, Perry or Gonchars value when talking about Crosby. They are not in the same category.

FYI 38 Years old MSL

 

[BaseballCoach]

What an asinine answer.

Is Suzuki up for a massive pay increase ?
Is Suzuki playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ?
Does keeping Suzuki require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ?
Is Suzuki an incredibly flawed player ?
Is Suzuki coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ?
Is Suzuki 29 years old and thus about 5 or 6 years older than the current core ?

Think before you reply.

Trading Matheson because he won't re-sign at an affordable rate is logical. Trading him for the reason the OP said, to make room for Struble, Barron, Engstrom and Xhekaj in addition to Hutson, is not logical! Prioritize TALENT for Price-sake!

If you don't like the Suzuki comparison, use Dach. Should we trade Dach NOW, FAST, and for CHEAP because he is (Price forbid) blocking Demidov and Hage and Beck and Kapanen and Mesar as potential top-9 centres and before he might need a massive pay increase in July 2026 (like MM)?

I read on the Wings forum a proposal to trade Montreal a 3rd round pick plus a 5th round pick for Matheson's contract, and to use him to anchor their second pair. Some Habs were ok with it! It' s NUTS!!!

 

[LaP]

Nah…they’ll get McKenna.

Mario-Crosby-McKenna… that’s just the way it is..

They wont get McKenna if they keep Crosby. He's still good enough to ensure the team wont finish low enough to have more than 3-5% chances to win the lottery

 

[sampollock]

KH will not empty the farm for Sid.

Sid will retire a pen

 

[Mrb1p]

Trading Matheson because he won't re-sign at an affordable rate is logical. Trading him for the reason the OP said, to make room for Struble, Barron, Engstrom and Xhekaj in addition to Hutson, is not logical! Prioritize TALENT for Price-sake!

If you don't like the Suzuki comparison, use Dach. Should we trade Dach NOW, FAST, and for CHEAP because he is (Price forbid) blocking Demidov and Hage and Beck and Kapanen and Mesar as potential top-9 centres and before he might need a massive pay increase in July 2026 (like MM)?

I read on the Wings forum a proposal to trade Montreal, a 3rd and a 5th round pick for Matheson's contract, with some Habs ok with it. It' s NUTS!!!

It's not just about making space, it's about all the reasons I listed. The reasons are overwhelmingly in favor of trading Matheson.

The Dach comparison still does not work. It's actually crazy how hard it is for you to comprehend simple differences.

I'll do the same thing I just did with Suzuki.
Is Dach up for a massive pay increase ? No.
Is Dach playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ? No.
Does keeping Dach require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ? No.
Is Dach an incredibly flawed player ? No.
Is Dach coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ? No.
Is Dach 29 years old and thus about 5 or 6 years older than the current core ? No.
Is Dach's value at his all-time high ? No.
Is Dach only bound to one single position or does he offer flexibility ? Yes.

Nobody is talking about trading Matheson for a 3rd. He's going to be worth what he's worth and it's probably around a late 1st or 2nd.

 

[Treb]

They wont get McKenna if they keep Crosby. He's still good enough to ensure the team wont finish low enough to have more than 3-5% chances to win the lottery

They didn't need more chances than that for Crosby.

 

[Kosseca]

KH will not empty the farm for Sid.

Sid will retire a pen

Now, now.... let the kids entertain themselves. You once believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy too

This kind of discussion is to be expected right now. there are no other obvious trade need/target until we see what training camp will yield in term of new info

 

[LaP]

Trading Matheson because he won't re-sign at an affordable rate is logical. Trading him for the reason the OP said, to make room for Struble, Barron, Engstrom and Xhekaj in addition to Hutson, is not logical! Prioritize TALENT for Price-sake!

If you don't like the Suzuki comparison, use Dach. Should we trade Dach NOW, FAST, and for CHEAP because he is (Price forbid) blocking Demidov and Hage and Beck and Kapanen and Mesar as potential top-9 centres and before he might need a massive pay increase in July 2026 (like MM)?

I read on the Wings forum a proposal to trade Montreal a 3rd round pick plus a 5th round pick for Matheson's contract, and to use him to anchor their second pair. Some Habs were ok with it! It' s NUTS!!!

The problem with the discussion around Matheson is some posters assume he'll sign a team friendly contract. While it might happens the odds for that to happen are historically low. His wife will want him to get paid, his agent will want him to get paid, his family will want him to get paid and he'll more than likely want to get paid too. I'm pretty sure he loves Montreal but not to the point of leaving millions behind.

So the logical assumption to make is that Matheson like Patch, Radulov, Gallagher, Petry will want to reap the rewards of his performance. We already have 7+ millions tied to 3 players. We are likely to have 7 millions tied to Demidov at some point. The question really should be do you pay Metheson in the range of 6.5-7 millions for 5-6 years? Will he keep his level of performance for 5-6 years? Would it be better to invest that money on a younger dman? I personally answer no, no and yes.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'll do the same thing I just did with Suzuki.
Is Dach up for a massive pay increase ? No.

He might well be. If he has a 70 point season, expect his next AAV to be at least double this one.

Is Dach playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ? No.

We have as many possible middle six centers coming as second and third pair D-men (Xhekaj, Struble, Engstrom, etc.)

Does keeping Dach require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ? No.

Neither does Matheson's presence require such a thing. Guhle can used on the left side. For example, Matheson, Guhle and Hutson on the Left with Reinbacher, Mailloux and Barron or Engstrom on the right. Guhle was only playing the right side last season because the RD prospects were not ready yet.

Personally, I am not worried that Dach might force Demigod to the wing.

Is Dach an incredibly flawed player ? No.

Matheson is no more "incredibly flawed" than Hutson or Mailloux.

Is Dach coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ? No.

Many people said the same about Matheson's 22-23 season, and yet they were wrong. But I will ask instead for your honest reply -- if Matheson has another 55+ point season this year with a return to a positive plus minus like in both 21-22 and 22-23, will you be comfortable with him signing a team-friendly extension to remain in his hometown for say 3-4 more seasons at a #2-3D salary?

Nobody is talking about trading Matheson for a 3rd. He's going to be worth what he's worth and it's probably around a late 1st or 2nd.

He is worth way more right now than Chiarot was in 2022, or Savard was in 2021.

 

[LaP]

It's not just about making space, it's about all the reasons I listed. The reasons are overwhelmingly in favor of trading Matheson.

The Dach comparison still does not work. It's actually crazy how hard it is for you to comprehend simple differences.

I'll do the same thing I just did with Suzuki.
Is Dach up for a massive pay increase ? No.
Is Dach playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ? No.
Does keeping Dach require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ? No.
Is Dach an incredibly flawed player ? No.
Is Dach coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ? No.
Is Dach 29 years old and thus about 5 or 6 years older than the current core ? No.
Is Dach's value at his all-time high ? No.
Is Dach only bound to one single position or does he offer flexibility ? Yes.

Nobody is talking about trading Matheson for a 3rd. He's going to be worth what he's worth and it's probably around a late 1st or 2nd.

If Matheson play as well as last season this year he'll be worth next summer around what Patch was worth. 1st round pick + 2nd round pick (or kids having the same value)

 

[BaseballCoach]

The problem with the discussion around Matheson is some posters assume he'll sign a team friendly contract. While it might happens the odds for that to happen are historically low. His wife will want him to get paid, his agent will want him to get paid, his family will want him to get paid and he'll more than likely want to get paid too. I'm pretty sure he loves Montreal but not to the point of leaving millions behind.

So the logical assumption to make is that Matheson like Patch, Radulov, Gallagher, Petry will want to reap the rewards of his performance. We already have 7+ millions tied to 3 players. We are likely to have 7 millions tied to Demidov at some point. The question really should be do you pay Metheson in the range of 6.5-7 millions for 5-6 years? Will he keep his level of performance for 5-6 years? Would it be better to invest that money on a younger dman? I personally answer no, no and yes.

If the whole league knows what some Hab fans seem to assert, that Matheson is not a "real" 1D, then it is entirely possible that a Habs offer for a #2-3D Salary is competitive enough for him, his wife, his agent and his tailor to accept.

 

[ReHabs]

A hit measures... A hit. That's it.

So it is irrelevant to what we were talking about and analysing, and yet you forced it into the discussion. How boring.

Barron has limitations, no doubt. That was never in question. I think you first replied without reading the post. The point was about what's at the root of the limitations. Some issues can and do regularly fade away, others don't.

I'm sorry you missed the subtext, as you tend to do, the point made is "IF" Barron doesn't improve in X, Y, and Z he will not become an important player. Just like Harris and myriad other defenders, their capacity for physicality is extremely important in the NHL.

Slaf early last year was quite clearly close to figuring it out, but many couldn't see those obvious signs... Confusing hesitation with low hockey IQ. I think some confuse Barron's hesitation with fear or avoidance of contact. I was bang on in what I saw with Slaf, Time will tell if I'm accurate on what I see in Barron's limitations.

Your eyes fooled you last year, doesn't appear that you've fixed the prescription.

Many wanted Slaf to improve his game elsewhere. How lucky he was that he improved his game in the NHL and at such a rapid trajectory. Barron is not Slafkovsky but he may yet improve his lot in the NHL... if he improves his physicality. That is the root of the discussion.

I nailed the Laine trade while many missed it. We all have hits and misses.

Appears you don't even remember what you posted... Let me help you:

Matheson was not a "physical" defender at draft nor by 22.
Matheson was not a "phenomenal puck/stick talent" at draft nor by 22.

Matheson had a very similar skill and hockey strength profile to Barron at draft, and was less successful as a pro by 22.

Hence why I offered his career trajectory as a simple, obvious, and "right in front of your nose" example that could help you improve your "picture"... And avoid baseless conjectures that feed terrible takes.

Its really quite simple. NHL has tons of other examples that highlight how off the mark your take is.

No idea why you then tried to make it about a present day comparison of a 30 year old dman to a 22 year old yet to establish himself as an NHL regular... What a silly idea?

Why mention Matheson when you can look at Mete? Mete never got his physical game together and is no more than a journeyman at best.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Matheson needs to go as the Habs have 4 LDs ready for the NHL, there is only one RD ready right now and it's Savard.

I don't think the team should be run on the low standard of being filled with guys "ready for the NHL". We should seek to build a TALENTED roster, and until and unless Matheson brings back a highly talented return, we should keep him, and build MORE around the 50+ point guys we already have. If Price forbid we trade Struble or Engstrom some day, they can be replaced more easily than a 50-65 point, 22-25 minute d-man.

There may be a good opportunity to trade Mike Matheson, and that's fine, but NOT just because there are NHL ready bodies around.

 

[Mrb1p]

He might well be. If he has a 70 point season, expect his next AAV to be at least double this one.

A 6'4 physical, great in transition 70 points 23 years old is well worth a 7M. That's such an asinine statement again.

We have as many possible middle six centers coming as second and third pair D-men (Xhekaj, Struble, Engstrom, etc.)

Why did you choose to ignore Hutson and Guhle in your post ? You are debating dishonestly.

Neither does Matheson's presence require such a thing. Guhle can used on the left side. For example, Matheson, Guhle and Hutson on the Left with Reinbacher, Mailloux and Barron or Engstrom on the right. Guhle was only playing the right side last season because the RD prospects were not ready yet.

And where is Guhle starting this year ? Why is that ? Who is going to play 3LD out of Matheson, Guhle and Hutson ? Don't you see an issue here ?

Personally, I am not worried that Dach might force Demigod to the wing.

Demidov is and has been a winger for years, the center experience isn't a conclusive affair. Also Dach can play effectively on the right wing.

Matheson is no more "incredibly flawed" than Hutson or Mailloux.

It's true, so how many of these incredibly flawed players can we really have on one defensive core?

Many people said the same about Matheson's 22-23 season, and yet they were wrong. But I will ask instead for your honest reply -- if Matheson has another 60 point season this year with a return to a positive plus minus like in both 21-22 and 22-23, will you be comfortable with him signing a team-friendly extension to remain in his hometown for say 3-4 more seasons at a #2-3D salary?

No I won't because I want Guhle-Hutson-Xhekaj to be the 3LDs, Matheson can f*** off.

He is worth way more right now than Chiarot was in 2022, or Savard was in 2021.

Yet he was traded for Petry.

If Matheson play as well as last season this year he'll be worth next summer around what Patch was worth. 1st round pick + 2nd round pick (or kids having the same value)

That's wishful thinking.

If the whole league knows what some Hab fans seem to assert, that Matheson is not a "real" 1D, then it is entirely possible that a Habs offer for a #2-3D Salary is competitive enough for him, his wife, his agent and his tailor to accept.

2-3 Ds are paid north of 6.5 M in the new NHL.

I don't think the team should be run on the low standard of being filled with guys "ready for the NHL". We should seek to build a TALENTED roster, and until and unless Matheson brings back a highly talented return, we should keep him, and build MORE around the 50+ point guys we already have. If Price forbid we trade Struble or Engstrom some day, they can be replaced more easily than a 50-65 point, 22-25 minute d-man.

There may be a good opportunity to trade Mike Matheson, and that's fine, but NOT just because there are NHL ready bodies around.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you that it's not "just" because of that reason. I've listed them twice in a 24 hours span.

 

[digmor crusher]

It's not just about making space, it's about all the reasons I listed. The reasons are overwhelmingly in favor of trading Matheson.

The Dach comparison still does not work. It's actually crazy how hard it is for you to comprehend simple differences.

I'll do the same thing I just did with Suzuki.
Is Dach up for a massive pay increase ? No.
Is Dach playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ? No.
Does keeping Dach require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ? No.
Is Dach an incredibly flawed player ? No.
Is Dach coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ? No.
Is Dach 29 years old and thus about 5 or 6 years older than the current core ? No.
Is Dach's value at his all-time high ? No.
Is Dach only bound to one single position or does he offer flexibility ? Yes.

Nobody is talking about trading Matheson for a 3rd. He's going to be worth what he's worth and it's probably around a late 1st or 2nd.

Dach has done squat in the league so far and until he does I refuse to believe that he is this great no. 2 center that everyones thinks he will be. I need to see it before I anoint him king.

 

[ReHabs]

The Matheson chat is very spicy but I have to ask: don't you think it's entirely a function of how the Habs play this year?

He's not getting traded before the season starts, right?

So barring a catastrophic collapse between the start until c. January, he's not going to be traded.

At the trade deadline, if the Habs are sellers/out-of-it, it'll likely be a function of high GA and low GF (both) -- both work against his trade value btw.

The next chance we can reasonably guess he can be marketed is after this coming season. Who knows what will happen between now and then?