HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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The problem with Laine is mostly attitude. He got the skills but the attitude is a huge issue. Could it change the closer he gets to 30? Obviously yes. Coaches always play a huge role with this kind of players too. Could MSL help putting him on the right track? It's not impossible. He got the skills that's for sure.

I'll say this - Pascal Vincent coached him in Columbus from 2021 to this season and was HC of Winnipeg's farm team when Laine was with the Jets. There aren't many people around the league that would know if there is an attitude problem or if its overstated.
 

Rapala

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It’s not baseless speculating. He’s in the player assistance program. That is known.

I know what type of person I am, I don’t need you of all people to lecture me. You’re the one making it personal against me since you’ve always had an issue with me. I think you should look in the mirror before telling me I need to mature. You clearly are way too affected by what someone random says online.

Hockey is a business, business is cold. That’s all there is to it. You make that much money, your issues get compounded. He has on-ice issues and apparently has personal issues. Will they be fixed by coming to a rebuilding team in a market under a microscope? Highly doubt it.
In recent times we've had exactly two players who came out of the assistance program and neither of them ever played another game with us.
We had another player struggling with mental health who couldn't help us when we needed him most.
We are also trying to turn the corner on the terrible run of man games lost.
What makes anyone think this is even a target given everything we've seen and heard relating to our method of team building?
 

The Great Weal

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Depends on the assets. And I'm not sure why you think he couldn't get 8.7 mil x 2 considering some of the crazy contracts we've seen this offseason. A 65 point pace is significant, literally no Hab has done that over the same time period.
Because there is no precedent for such a contract. 65 points really isn't significant, especially considering how his compete is wildly inconsistent and how awful he is defensively. Suzuki has done it so not sure why you said "literally no other Hab". The Habs have the youngest top 6 in the league, it's not a high bar to set when saying that it's still more production than most of our team.

Guys like Domi and Tatar had that kind of production with us too, but they are heavily flawed players that it didn't make up for this "significant" production. Not comparing the players to Laine, but you can't be a flawed player while only putting up 65 points if you're making 8.7 million.
I just don't get why you care so much about saving Molson money. Neither the term nor the cap hit prevents Montreal making moves this offseason or next season, nor does it prevent Montreal from making substantial and significant moves next offseason. Montreal doesn't even need to put Price on LTIR to make the move now.
I don't care about saving Molson's money, it's about asset management. Seeking out dog shit contracts and paying assets for them is moronic even if we have the cap space. The extreme version of this would be saying "let's go after Skinner since he's produced more than any Hab in the past 3 seasons" before the buyout while ignoring his flaws and accepting his contract because we can afford it.
Maybe my impression was wrong, but does that mean you'd be ok with trading something along the lines of Dvorak, Struble, Newhook and Fowler for Laine at 5.7 million? Or anything semi-remotely close to that?
I don't get this comparison at all. Nashville is a playoff team that wants to win, Habs are still rebuilding. Whether or not they pay more for Laine than us is irrelevant given how we are at completely different stages.
First of all, Montreal just got a 1st in a trade for Monahan, we never rely on "[h]e is who he is at this point". And again, the point is to take a chance on a player who can help now, may be a fit in the longer term and doesn't create risks in terms of what you give up or long term cap flexibility.
Again, you're proving my point for me. We got PAID to take someone like Monahan. Handsomely I might add. If Columbus pays us a 1st to take on Laine, of course I'd do it. We didn't give up assets for Monahan and hope he'd bounce back from consecutive disappointing seasons. You can't use the benefit of hindsight to say that we could have paid small assets for him and flipped him this year for a 1st because Hughes would have never done that in the first place.
 
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McGees

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Habs would need to send their own complete disappointment the other way to counterbalance the cap...
Goodbye Mr. Anderson, I think you will find yourself right at home.
 
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B1g B1rd

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Not giving more than a 3rd rd pick 2025 for Laine + CBJ picks up 25% of his 8,7m$ salary. Either that or good bye Charlie. Or they pick up Anderson straight up ...hehehe
 
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CaptainKirk

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Habs would need to send their own complete disappointment the other way to counterbalance the cap...
Goodbye Mr. Anderson, I think you will find yourself right at home.
Dream scenario, but would they want him back and are they on his limited no trade list?
 

Captain Mountain

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Because there is no precedent for such a contract. 65 points really isn't significant, especially considering how his compete is wildly inconsistent and how awful he is defensively. Suzuki has done it so not sure why you said "literally no other Hab". The Habs have the youngest top 6 in the league, it's not a high bar to set when saying that it's still more production than most of our team.

Sure there is. And the point is that if you want a cost effective contract, you better pay through the nose for it. 65 points is 1st line production. Easily. And I'm not advocating paying anything of significance for him, I'm saying Montreal has cap space available, it makes a lot of sense to take a chance on Laine when there is almost zero opportunity cost.

Guys like Domi and Tatar had that kind of production with us too, but they are heavily flawed players that it didn't make up for this "significant" production. Not comparing the players to Laine, but you can't be a flawed player while only putting up 65 points if you're making 8.7 million.

What? Domi and Tatar were great in Montreal. Domi got moved because of contract demands and Bergevin wanted to get MOAR BIG, and Tatar wasn't re-signed because Montreal didn't have the cap space (and for some reason liked Hoffman more).

I don't care about saving Molson's money, it's about asset management. Seeking out dog shit contracts and paying assets for them is moronic even if we have the cap space. The extreme version of this would be saying "let's go after Skinner since he's produced more than any Hab in the past 3 seasons" before the buyout while ignoring his flaws and accepting his contract because we can afford it.

We're talking about trading something like a veteran bottom 6er, a prospect and/or pick that wont get a realistic shot in Montreal. Going after a guy like Laine is about asset management. Unless the plan is to not do anything and position the team for another pick in the top-5 range. Which also works for me, but will bother others.

And there's a difference gambling on a 26 year old whose contract poses no issue for Montreal and a 32 year old whose contract is one year too long.

I don't get this comparison at all. Nashville is a playoff team that wants to win, Habs are still rebuilding. Whether or not they pay more for Laine than us is irrelevant given how we are at completely different stages.

Value of a player doesn't change based on who would have more interest. You don't want to trade for Laine because you don't think a rebuilding team should trade for 26+ vets? Fine. But that's a different reason than complaining about health or defensive deficiencies. Or for some reason minimizing the point production of a guy who, over the last 3 seasons, has a better P/60 than anybody on the Habs and half of the first liners in the NHL.

Again, you're proving my point for me. We got PAID to take someone like Monahan. Handsomely I might add. If Columbus pays us a 1st to take on Laine, of course I'd do it. We didn't give up assets for Monahan and hope he'd bounce back from consecutive disappointing seasons. You can't use the benefit of hindsight to say that we could have paid small assets for him and flipped him this year for a 1st because Hughes would have never done that in the first place.

Because Monahan was significantly worse than Laine. I'd expect Montreal to be paid if they were acquiring someone like M-E Vlasic.

I'm nor saying Laine is great, the point is you can either leeverage cap space to get a shot at a player that may fit long term or become a better trade chip, or you can pay a **** ton for a prospect like McGroarty or **** ton plus for an NHLer like Necas/Zegras, who may not actually be better in the short or long term.

Its like the Dubois discourse (another 2016 draft pick who can't defend and has off ice question marks that may or may not be fair). Paying what LA did? Hell no. Paying very little (with no long term cap risk)? I'm game.

If the plan is to add someone as management has suggested but definitely not committed to, better to mitigate risk when you're still figuring out what you have. Alternatively, just keep rebuilding slowly (which I'm fine with too). But lets not pretend that two dimes and loonie get you a twenty dollar bill.
 

BLONG7

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Because there is no precedent for such a contract. 65 points really isn't significant, especially considering how his compete is wildly inconsistent and how awful he is defensively. Suzuki has done it so not sure why you said "literally no other Hab". The Habs have the youngest top 6 in the league, it's not a high bar to set when saying that it's still more production than most of our team.

Guys like Domi and Tatar had that kind of production with us too, but they are heavily flawed players that it didn't make up for this "significant" production. Not comparing the players to Laine, but you can't be a flawed player while only putting up 65 points if you're making 8.7 million.

I don't care about saving Molson's money, it's about asset management. Seeking out dog shit contracts and paying assets for them is moronic even if we have the cap space. The extreme version of this would be saying "let's go after Skinner since he's produced more than any Hab in the past 3 seasons" before the buyout while ignoring his flaws and accepting his contract because we can afford it.

I don't get this comparison at all. Nashville is a playoff team that wants to win, Habs are still rebuilding. Whether or not they pay more for Laine than us is irrelevant given how we are at completely different stages.

Again, you're proving my point for me. We got PAID to take someone like Monahan. Handsomely I might add. If Columbus pays us a 1st to take on Laine, of course I'd do it. We didn't give up assets for Monahan and hope he'd bounce back from consecutive disappointing seasons. You can't use the benefit of hindsight to say that we could have paid small assets for him and flipped him this year for a 1st because Hughes would have never done that in the first place.
PLD is the exact scenario you quoted............60 pt guy who they GAVE 8.5M to, with the hope he would become better..............all the while an awful all around player........................who can't hold a candle to Laine and his numbers.
PLD wanted 8 years................Laine has 2 years left.

HuGo could be looking elsewhere, but Laine is not a bad gamble at all, based on cost of course.
Hold some $$$ or take Andy, or Gally.........there is a premise of a deal there.
 
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HabbyGuy

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I just find it funny that a 62 point defenceman who's very much needed on this roster, who by all accounts is a fantastic person while being on a bargain contract that loves being here, is continuously roasted and hated on, that needs to be shipped out of here ASAP is unwelcomed.

But a 65 point forward, who's oft injured, who lacks effort and has defensive deficiencies with mental problems, all at a much larger cap hit would somehow be welcomed with open arms and seen as a good fit.

What could possibly go wrong in this market?
 
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The Great Weal

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Sure there is. And the point is that if you want a cost effective contract, you better pay through the nose for it. 65 points is 1st line production. Easily. And I'm not advocating paying anything of significance for him, I'm saying Montreal has cap space available, it makes a lot of sense to take a chance on Laine when there is almost zero opportunity cost.
65 points is most definitely not 1st line production. Having cap space doesn't mean we should not care about whether or not a player's cap hit is too high for who he is, especially with the player being heavily flawed and inconsistent.
What? Domi and Tatar were great in Montreal. Domi got moved because of contract demands and Bergevin wanted to get MOAR BIG, and Tatar wasn't re-signed because Montreal didn't have the cap space (and for some reason liked Hoffman more).
Those players absolutely did not move the needle for us. Contract demands? Domi's been getting less than 5 million per year on the 50 other teams that he's been getting passed around on because he's not an effective player. Anderson is the one who got traded because of contract demands. Tatar is a liability in the playoffs.
We're talking about trading something like a veteran bottom 6er, a prospect and/or pick that wont get a realistic shot in Montreal. Going after a guy like Laine is about asset management. Unless the plan is to not do anything and position the team for another pick in the top-5 range. Which also works for me, but will bother others.
Well considering that all of our veteran bottom 6ers are cap dumps, this is a different story. Taking on the 8.7 without sending any money back is a horrific idea.
And there's a difference gambling on a 26 year old whose contract poses no issue for Montreal and a 32 year old whose contract is one year too long.
Skinner's contract also wouldn't pose an issue for the Habs. Hell even if he was 9x2 instead of the extra year, we shouldn't pay assets or even take that contract on for the player that he is. You'd think a team would be more than happy to pay closer to 8 million for 1 year after he got bought out since he's got "significant" production but of course, nobody did.
Value of a player doesn't change based on who would have more interest. You don't want to trade for Laine because you don't think a rebuilding team should trade for 26+ vets? Fine. But that's a different reason than complaining about health or defensive deficiencies. Or for some reason minimizing the point production of a guy who, over the last 3 seasons, has a better P/60 than anybody on the Habs and half of the first liners in the NHL.
They absolutely do because it's based on each team's unique perspective. I don't think we should take on that horrific contract without compensation. I'm more than fine if they retain, we send money back, or they compensate us for taking that on because worsecase we retain 50% next year and flip him.
Because Monahan was significantly worse than Laine. I'd expect Montreal to be paid if they were acquiring someone like M-E Vlasic.
It was more because the Flames wanted Kadri, but the extra year at 8.7 isn't something to be ignored. A player getting paid elite money for 2nd line production while being harmful in other areas of the game isn't something that you should pay assets for. Vlasic isn't NHL caliber so I don't get the mention and I'm not saying that we should be equally compensated by taking on Laine like how we did when we took on Monahan for one year.
I'm nor saying Laine is great, the point is you can either leeverage cap space to get a shot at a player that may fit long term or become a better trade chip, or you can pay a **** ton for a prospect like McGroarty or **** ton plus for an NHLer like Necas/Zegras, who may not actually be better in the short or long term.
Again, I'm all for Laine if he came with the proper adjustments/compensations. I don't see any of these players here long-term, but I still see the benefit. Just because we have cap space doesn't mean we shouldn't know its worth. If he was for one year, I'd be way more open to it, otherwise we are relieving the Jackets from a terrible contract for a flawed player that is rarely healthy and wants out.
If the plan is to add someone as management has suggested but definitely not committed to, better to mitigate risk when you're still figuring out what you have. Alternatively, just keep rebuilding slowly (which I'm fine with too). But lets not pretend that two dimes and loonie get you a twenty dollar bill.
Unless you're talking about Monopoly money, Laine is far from a 20-dollar bill.
 

BLONG7

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I just find it funny that a 62 point defenceman who's very much needed on this roster, who by all accounts is a fantastic person while being on a bargain contract that loves being here, is continuously roasted and hated on, that needs to be shipped out of here ASAP is unwelcomed.

But a 65 point forward, who's oft injured, who lacks effort and has defensive deficiencies with mental problems, all at a much larger cap hit would somehow be welcomed with open arms and seen as a good fit.

What could possibly go wrong in this market?
Don't see many here, saying that about Matheson?? Yes a few, but not many,
I think everyone knows how HuGo feels about Matheson..........there are a few who think this is the right time to sell high on said Dman...................and a perfect time to buy low on a 35 goal guy?
 
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Captain97

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Jan 31, 2017
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Ignoring the validity or not of the rumor this only makes sense if we are trading More Dmen.

Maybe Savard to a team like Edomonton or another Dman is included in a Mcgrorarty sequence trace.
 

HabbyGuy

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Don't see many here, saying that about Matheson?? Yes a few, but not many,
I think everyone knows how HuGo feels about Matheson..........there are a few who think this is the right time to sell high on said Dman...................and a perfect time to buy low on a 35 goal guy?

I understand the idea, just not the lack of self awareness. This market is not the best for Patrick's heath.

People be crazy in these parts.
 
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