HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

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The Great Weal

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Are there any other players producing at a near PPG clip you'd describe as terrible because he makes around 8 millions ?
Are there any players who can't play more than 50 games a year making 8 million? This is without even bringing up his dog shit effort and defensive game most nights. He's a fine gamble if Colombus retains/takes back bad contracts.
 

B1g B1rd

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I don't mind Laine since it would be a 2 year thing at worst, but not at that cap hit. They need to retain or take money back. The mental makeup in a hot market is something to consider, but there is zero expectation for the Habs in these 2 years and more importantly, the expectations for Laine are minimal given the price we'd pay.

This isn't the same thing as Drouin where we gave up Sergachev for a very young guy who was great in the playoffs for the Stanley Cup Finalist and expectations were for him to become a PPG player on a competitive team.
I totally agree with this. They would have to retain at least 25% (and I know Waddel said they wouldnt but its probably just a tactic). We're talking two years at 6,5m$ assuming CLB retains 25%. Not the end of the world as of now. And trade him at TDL26.

I'm also concerned about the pressure of our market, the fit in the room and his level of engagement. Thats where Vincent's input is critical like Blong said. If he's ready, it would be a real plus for the next 2 years. If not, well, its not the end of the world, HuGo will find something else.
 
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Captain Mountain

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I don't mind Laine since it would be a 2 year thing at worst, but not at that cap hit. They need to retain or take money back. The mental makeup in a hot market is something to consider, but there is zero expectation for the Habs in these 2 years and more importantly, the expectations for Laine are minimal given the price we'd pay.

This isn't the same thing as Drouin where we gave up Sergachev for a very young guy who was great in the playoffs for the Stanley Cup Finalist and expectations were for him to become a PPG player on a competitive team.

If you want retention on a player, however flawed, who has 117 points in his last 129 games, then the price that would need to be paid would not lead the expectations for Laine to be minimal.

Columbus wants a hockey trade anyways, but preserving/protecting Montreal's cap space for the next two seasons feels excessive. One of the reasons Montreal should be in a position to pay a minimal price is that they can easily absorb both the cap and real salary.
 

le_sean

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That literally has nothing to do with the - frankly, offensive - baseless speculating (if not outright lying) that you've done numerous times regarding Laine, strictly because you don't like him as a player.

I'd seriously sit down and reflect a bit about what kind of person you are that you have felt the need to repeatedly call someone a drug addict (among other things) without any evidence because of a hypothetical hockey move.

Pretty embarrassing stuff and lots of maturing to do as a grown man, honestly.
It’s not baseless speculating. He’s in the player assistance program. That is known.

I know what type of person I am, I don’t need you of all people to lecture me. You’re the one making it personal against me since you’ve always had an issue with me. I think you should look in the mirror before telling me I need to mature. You clearly are way too affected by what someone random says online.

Hockey is a business, business is cold. That’s all there is to it. You make that much money, your issues get compounded. He has on-ice issues and apparently has personal issues. Will they be fixed by coming to a rebuilding team in a market under a microscope? Highly doubt it.
 

The Great Weal

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If you want retention on a player, however flawed, who has 117 points in his last 129 games, then the price that would need to be paid would not lead the expectations for Laine to be minimal.

Columbus wants a hockey trade anyways, but preserving/protecting Montreal's cap space for the next two seasons feels excessive. One of the reasons Montreal should be in a position to pay a minimal price is that they can easily absorb both the cap and real salary.
Since joining the Jackets, Laine has 138 points in 174 games. That's a 65 point pace in an 82 game season which is extremely generous to assume he would play close to 82 games given how often he's injured. 8.7 million for a player who is wildly inconsistent with his effort, is awful defensively, not dependable to play most of the season, and has frankly been hit or miss with his production in the games he does play is not good.

If Columbus wants to wait it out instead of settling for a mediocre package, that's the better decision for them. He's borderline negative value at his current state. No team would give him that contract right now if he was a free agent, but we should pay assets without sending any cap back to take on that contract?
 
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junyab

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Yeah sure, there's homework to be done. There's no denying he's a hell of a talent and to call him a reclamation project is just plain wrong. I don't even really want him as I think it would be a lot more expensive than people think but yeah, what ever. I'm not sure we have space for Caufield, Demidov and Laine in the line up either.

At some point the Habs are going to become the Leafs if we don't get some kind of skill diversity.

He's going to be a hell of a lot more expensive than Laine, he's 5'10 and injured just as often as Laine.

It makes no sense.


As per usual, your motives are uncomplicated.

He's been able to carve himself a heluva career at 5' 10", kind of makes it a non-factor IMO.

And games lost due to injury the last 4 seasons: 44GP vs 66GP, not quite the same, but I get your point.
 

The Great Weal

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What are people's thoughts on Konecny? I'd rather have him than Laine. Of course it'd cost more, but if negotiations go sour maybe he's available.
I absolutely love Konecny as a player and the Timmins fan boys need to admit we royally f***ed up by standing pat and not trading up for him, but it doesn't really make any sense with this:

 

junyab

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Are there any other players producing at a near PPG clip you'd describe as terrible because he makes around 8 millions ?

I think 7 gets rounded up not down. :D

I absolutely love Konecny as a player and the Timmins fan boys need to admit we royally f***ed up by standing pat and not trading up for him, but it doesn't really make any sense with this:


No one's giving him $10mill, well the idiot Flyers might, but no other team would lol
 

le_sean

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Captain Mountain

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Since joining the Jackets, Laine has 138 points in 174 games. That's a 65 point pace in an 82 game season which is extremely generous to assume he would play close to 82 games given how often he's injured. 8.7 million for a player who is wildly inconsistent with his effort, is awful defensively, not dependable to play most of the season, and has frankly been hit or miss with his production in the games he does play is not good.

If Columbus wants to wait it out instead of settling for a mediocre package, that's the better decision for them. He's borderline negative value at his current state. No team would give him that contract right now if he was a free agent, but we should pay assets without sending any cap back to take on that contract?

The whole point is getting Laine with paying minimal to no assets.

We don't know precisely what Columbus wants, is willing to do or if Laine would even ok going to Montreal. But I'd rather give up expendable assets and take Laine at a full hit than make a trade around 1st for retention that Montreal doesn't need.

FWIW, a Nashville radio host proposed a package of Glass, Tomasino, Fabbro, and Askarov for Laine with 3 mil retained. Now that's a ridiculous offer, but Montreal's probably not going to get Laine retained for a 2nd and expendable picks/prospects.

He's still a 26 year old former 2nd OA pick who consistently puts up points when healthy. Considering the flat cap era is over, that has value.
 

Rapala

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Agreed. I do not understand all the suggestions I keep seeing to separate Suzuki and Caufield. They seem to have great chemistry together, and are both part of the long term core. Why all the casual comments to break them up?
For me Suzuki is a much better player when he isn't deferring to Caufield all the time.
We saw him doing things last season we expected out of Caufield.
He scored some totally sick goals with one timers from the spot Caufield was struggling with.
The best one was that OT winner from the frickin' goal line. Suzuki was by far our most accurate shooter last season AINEC.
The thing is there are only so many goals to go around on any given line.
Caufield with Dach setting him up could be poison and ensure we always have a line working.

What if Suzuki can hit 35-40 playing with Slaf and Cole the same with Dach.
Totally doable with what Nick Suzuki showed us last season.
Many teams talk about looking for Duos for their line construction.
Two guys driving play and one guy complimenting it.
 
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Yoor

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Personally I think his mental health issues stem more from his father's passing, then where he was playing hockey.

“He’s been my No. 1 fan and supporter always,” Laine said. “Not that my mom and sister and everyone else hasn’t been, but I think hockey was kind of our thing and our passion. I definitely wouldn’t be here without him. He always watched my games ever since I was a kid. ... so it’s definitely tough. Losing my best friend, it’s tough.” - Patrik Laine


I lost my father a few years ago (Pre-Covid) to a heart attack. I'm twice Laine's age and it still sent me for a loop. I went through a long period of time where I just didn't give a shit about anything. Eventually I snapped out of it, but not without a lot of help from my family and friends. Hopefully the assistance program has provided him all the help and support that he needs.

As for the media in Montreal. Meh, Laine to my knowledge doesn't read or speak French. So it's only the idiots in the English media that he'd have to ignore lol
This is some good insight and thank you for posting this as I was not aware of this and it is almost certain at the root of his issueS. Losing a loved one really puts things into perspective and sometimes a game gets put on the backburner. I have speculated before that getting back to doing what he loved in a die hard hockey market may just be the thing that gets this kid back on track (after getting the help he needs of course). There have been many hot takes about Laine in this thread about him being a reclamation project, washed up etc...

I personally hope the habs are interested in his services if he is ready to put his focus back on hockey. I could not see a better market for this guy and I think he would be a great fit on this team and with this coaching staff.

The end.
 

The Great Weal

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The whole point is getting Laine with paying minimal to no assets.
I understand, but nobody would give him 8.7x2 if he was a free agent right now, but we should potentially give up assets to do that? It makes no sense. If he was producing consistently or only had one year then I can understand the temptation, but he's averaged 65 points in an 82 game season as a Blue Jacket. Add in all the other factors, and we shouldn't be interested unless they are retaining or accepting cap in return.
FWIW, a Nashville radio host proposed a package of Glass, Tomasino, Fabbro, and Askarov for Laine with 3 mil retained. Now that's a ridiculous offer, but Montreal's probably not going to get Laine retained for a 2nd and expendable picks/prospects.
So Nashville is getting Laine at 5.7 million while dumping a 2.5 million cap dump. You're proving my point, he's not someone that should be actively targetted without hefty cap adjustments.
He's still a 26 year old former 2nd OA pick who consistently puts up points when healthy. Considering the flat cap era is over, that has value.
Former 2nd OA means nothing, he's not lived up to that at all and he's rarely healthy for the past 3 seasons. He is who he is at this point.
 

Captain Mountain

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I understand, but nobody would give him 8.7x2 if he was a free agent right now, but we should potentially give up assets to do that? It makes no sense. If he was producing consistently or only had one year then I can understand the temptation, but he's averaged 65 points in an 82 game season as a Blue Jacket. Add in all the other factors, and we shouldn't be interested unless they are retaining or accepting cap in return.

Depends on the assets. And I'm not sure why you think he couldn't get 8.7 mil x 2 considering some of the crazy contracts we've seen this offseason. A 65 point pace is significant, literally no Hab has done that over the same time period.

I just don't get why you care so much about saving Molson money. Neither the term nor the cap hit prevents Montreal making moves this offseason or next season, nor does it prevent Montreal from making substantial and significant moves next offseason. Montreal doesn't even need to put Price on LTIR to make the move now.

So Nashville is getting Laine at 5.7 million while dumping a 2.5 million cap dump. You're proving my point, he's not someone that should be actively targetted without hefty cap adjustments.

Maybe my impression was wrong, but does that mean you'd be ok with trading something along the lines of Dvorak, Struble, Newhook and Fowler for Laine at 5.7 million? Or anything semi-remotely close to that?

Former 2nd OA means nothing, he's not lived up to that at all and he's rarely healthy for the past 3 seasons. He is who he is at this point.

First of all, Montreal just got a 1st in a trade for Monahan, we never rely on "[h]e is who he is at this point". And again, the point is to take a chance on a player who can help now, may be a fit in the longer term and doesn't create risks in terms of what you give up or long term cap flexibility.
 

LaP

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The problem with Laine is mostly attitude. He got the skills but the attitude is a huge issue. Could it change the closer he gets to 30? Obviously yes. Coaches always play a huge role with this kind of players too. Could MSL help putting him on the right track? It's not impossible. He got the skills that's for sure.
 

sampollock

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The problem with Laine is mostly attitude. He got the skills but the attitude is a huge issue. Could it change the closer he gets to 30? Obviously yes. Coaches always play a huge role with this kind of players too. Could MSL help putting him on the right track? It's not impossible. He got the skills that's for sure.
if Laine is treated and is better and his talent is awesome... why not try it??
 
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