HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Austin Watson PTO with the wings.

Come on PTO for Matt Martin.

 

[LaP]

Dunno what Yzerman is doing but man i'm almost certain we will have a better team in 3 years.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Dunno what Yzerman is doing but man i'm almost certain we will have a better team in 3 years.

I really doubt it takes 3 years for us to be better.... By next season we will have passed them for good! Yzerman is f***ing lost

 

[Mrb1p]

Good idea. We should also move Suzuki to make room for Demidov and Hage at center

What an asinine answer.

Is Suzuki up for a massive pay increase ?
Is Suzuki playing the deepest position in the organization with multiple talented players coming up ?
Does keeping Suzuki require that our most hopeful player at this same position be used out of position ?
Is Suzuki an incredibly flawed player ?
Is Suzuki coming back from a career year where he will certainly not replicate the success he had ?
Is Suzuki 29 years old and thus about 5 or 6 years older than the current core ?

Think before you reply.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

With the acquisition of Laine to complete our top 6, the Crosby ship has sailed for me. I've stopped day dreaming about it for three reasons,

1) cap space
2) Laine is a two year experiment and we may need the futures we give up for Crosby for a more long term replacement if the Laine thing doesnt work
3) I want to build our young core. I don't see anyone in our projected 25/26 top 6 benefitting from going to the third line.

If we were to go for Crosby, I think the cost would be something like.....

Both 1sts this coming year.
Logan Mailloux
Michael Hage

If we pay that price many of us will be pining for the glory days of Houle, Bergevin, etc.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I really doubt it takes 3 years for us to be better.... By next season we will have passed them for good! Yzerman is f***ing lost

Building a team through the draft takes a lot of luck. Yzerman inherited a solid core with the Lightning but Brisebois was the one who address the depth/grit issues their core had.

I still think Yzerman is a good President/GM but expecting him to build something into the Pens, Lightning, Avs, etc was a reach because fans don't realize how much luck you need. Look at the last draft from the Habs... Demidov and Hage slip to use making it easy decisions. That's more luck than IQ or management. Hughes did take Slaf over Wright though so that part is good management.

Lots of Habs fans are too afraid to project our roster into a playoff contender this coming season. Not sure what the % is but it's much higher than 5-10%. I believe we will score more but not sure if we prevent more goals (vs last season). Our D is still young.

Good idea. We should also move Suzuki to make room for Demidov and Hage at center

Having too many centers is a good problem. As long as there is talent and several of them, guys don't mind playing wing. Team Canada does it all the time.

Trade Suzuki to make room. Come on man.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With the acquisition of Laine to complete our top 6, the Crosby ship has sailed for me. I've stopped day dreaming about it for three reasons,

1) cap space
2) Laine is a two year experiment and we may need the futures we give up for Crosby for a more long term replacement if the Laine thing doesnt work
3) I want to build our young core. I don't see anyone in our projected 25/26 top 6 benefitting from going to the third line.

If we were to go for Crosby, I think the cost would be something like.....

Both 1sts this coming year.
Logan Mailloux
Michael Hage

Crosby won't return that much IMO. That's 4 massive pieces bud. Can you find a past trade that would compare?

What you might overlook is Crosby's NMC. He's not going to open that up to 5+ teams. More like 3 teams max. That means it's a 3 team bidding war kind of thing which does limit it a bit.

IMO, Crosby's trade value for one season is...
* 1st rounder (20+)
* Grade A prospect or Young player already in the NHL.
* Other adds that are not 1st round quality.

Find me trades that have both a 1st and a Grade A prospect? Good luck.

 

[LaP]

Good idea. We should also move Suzuki to make room for Demidov and Hage at center

Matheson will turn 31 in the middle of the season. He'll turn 33 in the middle of the 1st season of his next contract. We absolutely should not extend him. I know it's popular around here to think all players are in their prime until 40 but age is not just a number it's a real thing and it does not discriminate. Matheson is likely to age like Petry. They are very similar player with the same weakness and strength.

30 years old Petry (same season as this year Matheson) 46 points -5
31 years old Petry (next season for Matheson) 40 points in 70 games -10
32 years old Petry (1st season of Matheson's next contract) 42 points in 55 games +6 (stanley cup final)
33 years old Petry and beyond (2nd year of Matheson's next contract and beyond) -> cap dump twice in two years

Signing Matheson would be doing what we did for 30+ years now and it failed miserably everytime. Matheson is an asset. He is almost certain to be a depreciating asset during his next contract. He should be traded before his value start to go down probably next summer.

 

[DAChampion]

Crosby won't return that much IMO. That's 4 massive pieces bud. Can you find a past trade that would compare?

What you might overlook is Crosby's NMC. He's not going to open that up to 5+ teams. More like 3 teams max. That means it's a 3 team bidding war.

IMO, Crosby's trade value for one season is...
* 1st rounder (20+)
* Grade A prospect or Young player already in the NHL.
* Other adds that are not 1st round quality.

Find me trades that have both a 1st and a Grade A prospect? Good luck.

If Pittsburgh is not competing, a 1st, Mesar, and Konyushov is a fair package for Crosby, particularly if he extends.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

and Barron cant play his natural position at all.

Can Fabbro? I haven't watched him much.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Pittsburgh is not competing, a 1st, Mesar, and Konyushov is a fair package for Crosby, particularly if he extends.

Yes, something like that. Might increase a bit if two or 3 teams get aggressive (teams on his accepted list). But it won't be 4 massive pieces that are all 1st round quality.

 

[sampollock]

Crosby is the new PLD for sure coming player on this board

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Matheson will turn 31 in the middle of the season. He'll turn 33 in the middle of the 1st season of his next contract. We absolutely should not extend him. I know it's popular around here to think all players are in their prime until 40 but age is not just a number it's a real thing and it does not discriminate. Matheson is likely to age like Petry. They are very similar player with the same weakness and strength.

30 years old Petry (same season as this year Matheson) 46 points -5
31 years old Petry (next season for Matheson) 40 points in 70 games -10
32 years old Petry (1st season of Matheson's next contract) 42 points in 55 games +6 (stanley cup final)
33 years old Petry and beyond (2nd year of Matheson's next contract and beyond) -> cap dump twice in two years

Petry wasn't done. Teams wanted him but couldn't fit his contract in.

If we pay that price many of us will be pining for the glory days of Houle, Bergevin, etc.

Exactly. I would likely offer a 1st at most. Probably not winning the Cup this season even with Crosby and they can sign him as a UFA after the season if he wants to play for the Habs.

 

[Naslundforever]

1.74 hits per 60...

That's not very "regular" even if each of those hits were Scott Stevens-esque



Guessing you didn't watch much of Matheson at 22

If you think players at 22 don't see their games evolve over time, then sure. But in the real world, progression happens.

Matheson at 22 was neither considered a phenomenal puck/stick talent, nor a player who was physically imposing (ie bully). So your inability to "picture" a player like Matheson or Barron at 22 succeeding in the NHL reflects a lack of understanding more than anything else.

I will grant you that being 22 vs 30 is a "world apart" when it comes to NHL development stage... I'd have thought that so obvious as to not need stating, but I guess not for you.


Hits/60 in NHL last year

Barron - 4.09
Matheson - 1.74
Harris - 1.49

It’s interesting because Barron plays scared to the point he gives up ice and position and Matheson is actually really tough. Matter of interpreting “physical” I guess.

Evidently does not translate to frequency of hits, I suspect getting position is more useful than giving up possession to be sure you’re not the one taking the hit.

As you say, one is much more physically mature than the other at this point.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Matheson will turn 31 in the middle of the season. He'll turn 33 in the middle of the 1st season of his next contract. We absolutely should not extend him. I know it's popular around here to think all players are in their prime until 40 but age is not just a number it's a real thing and it does not discriminate. Matheson is likely to age like Petry. They are very similar player with the same weakness and strength.

30 years old Petry (same season as this year Matheson) 46 points -5
31 years old Petry (next season for Matheson) 40 points in 70 games -10
32 years old Petry (1st season of Matheson's next contract) 42 points in 55 games +6 (stanley cup final)
33 years old Petry and beyond (2nd year of Matheson's next contract and beyond) -> cap dump twice in two years

Signing Matheson would be doing what we did for 30+ years now and it failed miserably everytime. Matheson is an asset. He is almost certain to be a depreciating asset during his next contract. HE should be traded before his value start to go down.

Depends on a lot of unknown factors.

* Does Hutson show ability to replace him as our PP QB.

* Is Matheson improving still or he is done. Many are attacking and exaggerating his flaws but have not considered that he has improved in that area and still can mature more.

* What term does Matheson want? Would he stay for 3 years or is he after 5+. What other teams will offer him 5+ at the age of 33 (UFA)?

There is still time to make this decision. For now, we need him to rise up the standings while Hutson develops/matures more. I'm not a fan of trading players for the sake of it. Yes, we should if the offers are solid. But if we are talking meh pieces that have high probability to turn into grade B prospects, why bother? We are already loaded with these types.

 

[LaP]

Petry wasn't done. Teams wanted him but couldn't fit his contract in.

That will be the same for Matheson. Do you think he'll sign here for peanuts? At one point our ELC and bridge contracts will end and i'd rather not be in a position where i have to unload a 6.5-7 millions Matheson because he's playing like a 4th dman and i can't pay a better kid. Grabs the assets next summer it would be silly not to.

 

[LaP]

Depends on a lot of unknown factors.


* What term does Matheson want? Would he stay for 3 years or is he after 5+. What other teams will offer him 5+ at the age of 33 (UFA)?

Of course it's the deciding factor but since it's going to be Matheson's last (and only) big contract and he never got paid i assume he'll want to get paid like Gallagher/Patch/Petry. It's the same situation. Good player. Never got paid. Last big contract.

I assume the minimum Matheson will accept before july is 4 years 6.5 millions and i'm not giving him that as a 32 years old dman.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Of course it's the deciding factor but since it's going to be Matheson's last (and only) big contract and he never got paid i assume he'll want to get paid like Gallagher/Patch/Petry. It's the same situation. Good player. Never got paid. Last big contract.

I assume the minimum Matheson will accept before july is 4 years 6.5 millions and i'm not giving him that as a 32 years old dman.

Personally, I would be less worried about 32-35 than 36+. The term would very important.

The other layer is when do you trade him? I think that's when he is a pending UFA. By then, Hutson will have a fair amount of NHL experience.

I doubt teams are lining up to give us a 1st and/or grade A prospect at this stage. However, If Matheson continues to put up points and mature in his own zone, his value will be rock solid when he is a pending UFA.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Personally, I would be less worried about 32-35 than 36+. The term would very important.

The other layer is when do you trade him? I think that's when he is a pending UFA. By then, Hutson will have a fair amount of NHL experience.

I doubt teams are lining up to give us a 1st and/or grade A prospect at this stage. However, If Matheson continues to put up points and mature in his own zone, his value will be rock solid when he is a pending UFA.

There are teams that should be willing to offer a 1st/A prospect now. They may not have the cap room though. Tornto needs a point man for the PP for example.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There are teams that should be willing to offer a 1st/A prospect now. They may not have the cap room though. Tornto needs a point man for the PP for example.

Not sure what price they would pay to be honest. The trade value should be high but when talking to other fans, they compare him to Ghost and DeAngelo.

 

[waitin425]

Crosby won't return that much IMO. That's 4 massive pieces bud. Can you find a past trade that would compare?

What you might overlook is Crosby's NMC. He's not going to open that up to 5+ teams. More like 3 teams max. That means it's a 3 team bidding war kind of thing which does limit it a bit.

IMO, Crosby's trade value for one season is...
* 1st rounder (20+)
* Grade A prospect or Young player already in the NHL.
* Other adds that are not 1st round quality.

Find me trades that have both a 1st and a Grade A prospect? Good luck.

Hard to find a comparable to Crosby, so no...I can't find a past trade that would compare.

I would never trade that much for Crosby. But, I suspect it would cost that. If I am Pittsburgh, I am negotiating that package as if it is the lower end of each pieces projection. What I mean, is there is risk in each of those pieces.

Habs 1st at worst for Pittsburgh could 14-20. Flames pick at worst could be same.

Mailloux may end up a 3rd pair d man.

Hage may never make the NHL.

Obviously, I project our players higher....but those are some ceilings here. If I am Pittsburgh, would I trade Sidney Crosby for 14th and 15th overall + third pair RD + AHLer? Nope.

Whatever....in the end it doesn't matter. I would never trade that package for him.....but I do think something like that would be required.

 

[Beer and Chips]

Mesar for a 94 point Crosby

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Mesar for a 94 point Crosby

We could probably add a 2nd round pick to make the trade more fair

 

[kyne]

If we pay that price many of us will be pining for the glory days of Houle, Bergevin, etc.

Robert Dirk, Michael Busto, Steve Ott... Good times!

 

[DAChampion]

Mesar for a 94 point Crosby

Pending UFAs in their late 30s are never worth a gold mine.