HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[DAChampion]

I still consider converting Arber to our 4th line F the ideal evolution. Add Florian and Tuch - that a tough 4th line to handle.

If Tuch and FX are supposed to provide toughness, then it doesn't make sense for AX to always be on the ice at the same time.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Barron and Fabbro are the same. Neither are really good and I wouldn't trade a 3rd for either

 

[calder candidate]

It'd be only for this season, or at least until the TDL if they're out of it by then.
Or course, it always depends on acquisition cost.
Larsson is UFA at the end of the season. They can't expect the moon for him.
The candidate for me in a trade like this is Barron. There's always the risk of Larsson getting injured before the TDL but it's one i'd be willing to take.

I think the Kraken will try to trade guys like Gourde or Tanev and keep Larsson until the TDL.
So it's likely not going to happen anyway.

Look at what big, stay at home D get at the TDL, it will be too much also is this the year that we need to be all in… finally is Larsson such a upgrade on Savard because who we should be looking to trade at the TDL.

 

[Miller Time]

Very very hard to picture a non-physical defender ever succeeding in the NHL if he’s not a phenomenal puck/stick talent.

I'm pretty sure you can find a picture of Matheson somewhere around here

Barron and Fabbro are the same. Neither are really good and I wouldn't trade a 3rd for either

3 year age gap
200 game NHL experience gap
1.4M$ cap hit gap

Those aren't immaterial differences

 

[vokiel]

Barron and Fabbro are the same. Neither are really good and I wouldn't trade a 3rd for either

Barron has 94 games played in the NHL and he's an AHLer. The other has 309 games and he's a UFA.

I don't think either is a particularly good TDL target, that's for sure, but folks under-evaluate experience every TDL, and get surprised how much is given for it.

 

[Naslundforever]

I'm pretty sure you can find a picture of Matheson somewhere around here


3 year age gap
200 game NHL experience gap
1.4M$ cap hit gap

Those aren't immaterial differences

Matheson runs over people on the regular and is not afraid of roughing it up, it’s just not his game to just play the body on D.. He keeps sending dudes flying who try and stand him up at their blue.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Preds would never trade Fabbro for a waiver fodder dman and a 3rd, they can get better easily.

Fabbro is mediocre. They would likely get a 3rd.
Fabbro has no offensive ability at all. Barron does.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm pretty sure you can find a picture of Matheson somewhere around here

If you think Matheson is as non-physical as Barron, sure. But in the real world they're a world apart.

There's a reason why Harris and Barron have a lot of doubters about their ultimate upside and it has everything to do with the minor but impossible to miss decisions they make on the ice vis a vis their willingness to play the body.

 

[Miller Time]

Matheson runs over people on the regular and is not afraid of roughing it up, it’s just not his game to just play the body on D.. He keeps sending dudes flying who try and stand him up at their blue.

1.74 hits per 60...

That's not very "regular" even if each of those hits were Scott Stevens-esque

If you think Matheson is as non-physical as Barron, sure. But in the real world they're a world apart.

Guessing you didn't watch much of Matheson at 22

If you think players at 22 don't see their games evolve over time, then sure. But in the real world, progression happens.

Matheson at 22 was neither considered a phenomenal puck/stick talent, nor a player who was physically imposing (ie bully). So your inability to "picture" a player like Matheson or Barron at 22 succeeding in the NHL reflects a lack of understanding more than anything else.

I will grant you that being 22 vs 30 is a "world apart" when it comes to NHL development stage... I'd have thought that so obvious as to not need stating, but I guess not for you.

There's a reason why Harris and Barron have a lot of doubters about their ultimate upside and it has everything to do with the minor but impossible to miss decisions they make on the ice vis a vis their willingness to play the body.

Hits/60 in NHL last year

Barron - 4.09
Matheson - 1.74
Harris - 1.49

 

[Benstheman]

Let's say Habs are ahead of Pittsburgh and competing for a playoffs spot nearing the TDL and Crosby agrees to be traded to Mtl. What you guys think would be the cost of acquisition and what an extension with the Habs would look like?

I know i know, i'm dreaming. But it is still august and i know you guys are bored so...

 

[ReHabs]

1.74 hits per 60...

That's not very "regular" even if each of those hits were Scott Stevens-esque

If you think "hits" are the be-all, end-all of physical play and physicality...

Guessing you didn't watch much of Matheson at 22

Why would I? I'm watching him in the present day.

Hits/60 in NHL last year

Barron - 4.09
Matheson - 1.74
Harris - 1.49

Damn, it really seems you think Hits are a suitable proxy for physicality.

Let's say Habs are ahead of Pittsburgh and competing for a playoffs spot nearing the TDL and Crosby agrees to be traded to Mtl. What you guys think would be the cost of acquisition and what an extension with the Habs would look like?

I know i know, i'm dreaming. But it is still august and i know you guys are bored so...

Depends if Sidney Crosby wants "to do right by PIT" and get them the highest possible return or if PIT wants to do right by Sidney Crosby and get him to the team he wants to be on.

Hughes is not in a position to give up a lot of futures because we don't exactly have a core in place. If Crosby wants to come and he says he's keen to play here for a year or two afterward, maybe there's a deal there to be had but I can't imagine it would cost less than 1-3 first round picks and 1-3 prospects. CGY/FLA 1st 2025, MTL 1st 2026, Mesar, Fowler, ++ etc.

The problem is our D and G doesn't appear anywhere close to Cup Contender level for this season year.

 

[Miller Time]

If you think "hits" are the be-all, end-all of physical play and physicality...

Nope. Just one actual quantifiable metric that quite simply exposes your poor assessment

Why would I? I'm watching him in the present day.

Apples
Oranges

Pick one

Damn, it really seems you think Hits are a suitable proxy for physicality.

It's a lot better than empty hyperbole

 

[ReHabs]

It's a lot better than empty hyperbole

Actually, it's easily worse. A hit count doesn't measure how a player positions himself against forecheckers. I use my eyes, not a spreadsheet. Most can tell Barron's big flaws are on the defensive and physical side of things. It needn't be so controversial.

Apples and Oranges: I'm talking about the present and you're talking about some other player's alleged playing style eight years ago for some reason.

 

[waitin425]

Let's say Habs are ahead of Pittsburgh and competing for a playoffs spot nearing the TDL and Crosby agrees to be traded to Mtl. What you guys think would be the cost of acquisition and what an extension with the Habs would look like?

I know i know, i'm dreaming. But it is still august and i know you guys are bored so...

With the acquisition of Laine to complete our top 6, the Crosby ship has sailed for me. I've stopped day dreaming about it for three reasons,

1) cap space
2) Laine is a two year experiment and we may need the futures we give up for Crosby for a more long term replacement if the Laine thing doesnt work
3) I want to build our young core. I don't see anyone in our projected 25/26 top 6 benefitting from going to the third line.

If we were to go for Crosby, I think the cost would be something like.....

Both 1sts this coming year.
Logan Mailloux
Michael Hage

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

1.74 hits per 60...

That's not very "regular" even if each of those hits were Scott Stevens-esque



Guessing you didn't watch much of Matheson at 22

If you think players at 22 don't see their games evolve over time, then sure. But in the real world, progression happens.

Matheson at 22 was neither considered a phenomenal puck/stick talent, nor a player who was physically imposing (ie bully). So your inability to "picture" a player like Matheson or Barron at 22 succeeding in the NHL reflects a lack of understanding more than anything else.

I will grant you that being 22 vs 30 is a "world apart" when it comes to NHL development stage... I'd have thought that so obvious as to not need stating, but I guess not for you.


Hits/60 in NHL last year

Barron - 4.09
Matheson - 1.74
Harris - 1.49

Petry was also a complete shitter at 22

 

[DAChampion]

The future team D, ignoring any great players that may be drafted in 2025:

1st pair:
Guhle - Reinbacher
This seems most likely, and it will be good to see.

2nd LHD
Matheson? Hutson?

2nd RHD
Mailloux or Barron.

3rd LHD
Xhekaj

3rd RHD / 7th D (2 spots)
Barron, Engstrom, Savard, or Struble

Fierce competition. Wow. I wonder what Hughes will be choose to do. And as above they might draft a splendid dman or two in 2025. And perhaps a splendid dman was drafted in 2024 and I just don't know it yet.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Watch Erik Karlsson in his own end.....................now that guy is bad in his own end, and he has played for how many years??? Pure Trainwreck....

Barron will be fine.........the kid is 22.............................career just beginning.

Massive exaggeration imo.

I think you misread hesitation due to confidence issues as a lack of intensity. His game is all about positioning, skating and strong puck movement. He'll never be a bully or a forceful physical presence, that's not his game nor does it need to be for him to hit his ceiling.

Certainly, if he isn't able to overcome the hesitation & over thinking, he'll remain a depth NHLer (not unlike what Fabbro still is despite 300 NHL games)... But at the 94 game mark, its reasonable to expect his confidence to continue growing, and with it, the assertiveness that will allow him to use his impressive tools more effectively & consistently.

Ironically, it's being a RD that has got Fabbro 300 games in the NHL despite his uneven and inconsistent play this far... We're he a LD I'm not sure he'd have been given as much opportunity as he's had.

I suppose I should have started with the question of what your goals are for next season... Do you want to improve or do you want to tank again?

If you guys want to win and you are riding with Barron... my question is why? There is absolutely no place for him on this team long term

He 100% needs to be sheltered defensively, as does Hutson, Xhekaj and Matheson. He will not get any PP time here either. When Mailloux gets called up that's another defenseman who can't play defense that we will need to shelter. Is the long term plan to have Guhle just carry all of the heavy lifting on defense?

Comparing Barron to Karlsson is hilarious by the way, Karlsson is the best offensive d-men of the past 25 years and is probably still better at defense than Barron.

 

[Mrb1p]

I still consider converting Arber to our 4th line F the ideal evolution. Add Florian and Tuch - that a tough 4th line to handle.

Arber is a fantastic defender with untapped potential to be a top 4 D... why would you want to convert that to a 4th line goon???

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I'm begging the Barron defenders to actually watch him play defense. I have more hope for Hutson on defense than Barron.

Barron plays defense like a bitch and I know it because it is how I used to play defense It's so easy to identify if you've been that guy before.

He's smart enough to know where he should be on the ice, but 99% of the time he's faking actually playing defense and just lets the opposing team do whatever they want. He man marks without using his stick or his body, he goes down to block a shot a half second after the shot is released making it look like he actually tried while guaranteeing it won't hit him. Hutson is at least active with his stick and I've seen him poke the puck free in the corner, with Barron he is 100% relying on his defensive partner to recover the puck and play it to him in open space, which nobody on our team can do.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Matheson needs to go as the Habs have 4 LDs ready for the NHL, there is only one RD ready right now and it's Savard.

Good idea. We should also move Suzuki to make room for Demidov and Hage at center

 

[LaP]

The future team D, ignoring any great players that may be drafted in 2025:

1st pair:
Guhle - Reinbacher
This seems most likely, and it will be good to see.

2nd LHD
Matheson? Hutson?

2nd RHD
Mailloux or Barron.

3rd LHD
Xhekaj

3rd RHD / 7th D (2 spots)
Barron, Engstrom, Savard, or Struble

Fierce competition. Wow. I wonder what Hughes will be choose to do. And as above they might draft a splendid dman or two in 2025. And perhaps a splendid dman was drafted in 2024 and I just don't know it yet.

You forget Kony. He's a black box atm but i would not write him off.

 

[DAChampion]

You forget Kony. He's a black box atm but i would not write him off.

Is he an RHD or LHD?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Fabbro is mediocre. They would likely get a 3rd.
Fabbro has no offensive ability at all. Barron does.

and Barron cant play his natural position at all.

 

[LaP]

I'm begging the Barron defenders to actually watch him play defense. I have more hope for Hutson on defense than Barron.

Barron plays defense like a bitch and I know it because it is how I used to play defense It's so easy to identify if you've been that guy before.

He's smart enough to know where he should be on the ice, but 99% of the time he's faking actually playing defense and just lets the opposing team do whatever they want. He man marks without using his stick or his body, he goes down to block a shot a half second after the shot is released making it look like he actually tried while guaranteeing it won't hit him. Hutson is at least active with his stick and I've seen him poke the puck free in the corner, with Barron he is 100% relying on his defensive partner to recover the puck and play it to him in open space, which nobody on our team can do.

I don't think there's such thing as "Barron defender". Just people who say it's too soon to write him of.

 

[LaP]

Preds would never trade Fabbro for a waiver fodder dman and a 3rd, they can get better easily.

I must have watched another league without realizing it but Fabbro is somehow great now? Now obviously Nashville would not be interested in Barron no matter what they would need to give cause they want to win a cup with a geriatric team but dunno Fabbro has never looked like anything special every time i've seen him play. Kind of guy hockey dinosaures like to overrate. I'd rather give a chance to Struble, Xhekaj and eventually Protz if he develops well.