Toronto Sports Media Discussion Thread - v7 (2022 Edition)

[pcruz]

I don't seek out much news any longer so this was literally the first time I've heard about this. It seems like it has been heavily suppressed. I've got some ideas:

1. Make NDA's invalid with regards to all criminal matters. No more of this buy off the victim/whistleblower/witness. This is how powerful people get away with their dirty deeds.
2. Every single Canadian hockey player, coach, official, sponsor, supporter should refuse to participate/fund Hockey Canada until this is played out in the judicial system. Also every single penny of government funding should be withdrawn.

I'm not sure you understand what a settlement entails.

 

[colchar]

I don't seek out much news any longer so this was literally the first time I've heard about this. It seems like it has been heavily suppressed.

You admit to not watching news then claim it has been suppressed? No, you just weren't aware of it.

1. Make NDA's invalid with regards to all criminal matters. No more of this buy off the victim/whistleblower/witness. This is how powerful people get away with their dirty deeds.

There were no charges and no court case, therefore there was no criminal matter.

2. Every single Canadian hockey player, coach, official, sponsor, supporter should refuse to participate/fund Hockey Canada until this is played out in the judicial system. Also every single penny of government funding should be withdrawn.

There are thousands of people involved with Hockey Canada, why should they all be punished for the actions of eight arseholes?

And that brings up another point - nothing has been proven and we only have an accusation. Should everyone be punished based on an accusation? Should proof not be required before punishments are meted out?

I don't know how you can watch these 2 shows and miss Jeff. Jonas was excellent on both days as he always is. I have a huge issue with Noodles but easily keep him over Jeff. Hayes and Jonas even have good chemistry I feel, and they had a good spirited healthy debate today, where Jeff would have resorted to yelling and making fun of Hayes in the same scenario. It's also nice having a 2nd member on the show who knows a lot about other sports that isn't hockey.
They need to get rid of Jeff and replace him with Jonas or MJ full time.

Jonas is an pathetic, arrogant little dweeb. Anyone but him.

 

[colchar]

Odog doesn't act any differently now than when Noodles got into a blow up with him on air a couple years ago.

What happened then?

 

[justashadowof]

You admit to not watching news then claim it has been suppressed? No, you just weren't aware of it.

I don't normally respond to responses that intentionally miss the point in order to "win" a discussion but I'll make an exception in this case.

I'm sure you got exactly what I meant that I'm not seeking out all minutia of news. I only pick up the "big stories" whether reading a forum like this or seeing news suggestions on things like Twitter feeds and such. I see no reason why this shouldn't have been a major Canadian sports story thus leading to the conclusion it has obviously been suppressed.

There were no charges and no court case, therefore there was no criminal matter.

The lack of charges and court case IS the issue. That something was acknowledged as happening then paid off with an NDA IS the reason there were no criminal charges. It was an alleged sexual assault by legal age individuals swept under the rug because they've got special privileges as Canadian hockey players.

There are thousands of people involved with Hockey Canada, why should they all be punished for the actions of eight arseholes?

It isn't "eight arseholes". It's the bureaucratic machinery of Hockey Canada who made this go away. Hockey Canada is obviously complicit in suppressing this. So, yes, all of Hockey Canada should suffer until the people in charge at Hockey Canada don't get the easy out they were given with the incident. If Hockey Canada went away tomorrow it's not like hockey would no longer happen in Canada.

And that brings up another point - nothing has been proven and we only have an accusation. Should everyone be punished based on an accusation? Should proof not be required before punishments are meted out?

People boycotting an organization is not punishment, it's pressure for them to take meaningful action. Hockey Canada's sponsors have withdrawn support.

 

[stickty111]

Well time to find the NBC feed

 

[rojac]

Well time to find the NBC feed

You'd want an ESPN feed.

 

[garce]

Well time to find the NBC feed

Just when you thought Sportsnet hockey couldn’t get lower, boom this pompous wind bag gets hired if even just for one day. Get ready for every kid from New England to get hyped way beyond merit. Especially if they have a connection to Pierres wide range of cronies who have a background with NCAA and or good old super intelligent hockey men like himself.

 

[hotpaws]

Great , now I get to listen to Pierre tell me some players Gammy worked at the piggly wiggly to help pay for his hockey.

 

[pcruz]

...



The lack of charges and court case IS the issue. That something was acknowledged as happening then paid off with an NDA IS the reason there were no criminal charges. It was an alleged sexual assault by legal age individuals swept under the rug because they've got special privileges as Canadian hockey players.



It isn't "eight arseholes". It's the bureaucratic machinery of Hockey Canada who made this go away. Hockey Canada is obviously complicit in suppressing this. So, yes, all of Hockey Canada should suffer until the people in charge at Hockey Canada don't get the easy out they were given with the incident. If Hockey Canada went away tomorrow it's not like hockey would no longer happen in Canada.


People boycotting an organization is not punishment, it's pressure for them to take meaningful action. Hockey Canada's sponsors have withdrawn support.

Here is the flaw with your rebuttal though:

The alleged victim (I say alleged victim because if her claims were truthful, she was a victim, but we will never know whether there is any validity to her claims and therefore will remain alleged), decided not to pursue the case in a manner that would provide clarity or bring forth information into the public light.
Hockey Canada would have hired a legal team whose only focus is to get this matter resolved quickly and with no lingering effects. They would have gauged the costs and risk of the defense trial and compared them to a settlement and presented both options to the plaintiff.

At this point, it becomes the choice of the plaintiff to accept the settlement knowing that her claims will die and be buried forever with no possibility of ever being adjudicated, or to continue to fight for justice.

Personally, I think that all sexual assault cases should not have the option to settle and that a resolution needs to come from a judgement after all pertinent information is brought forth.
I also firmly believe that people need to be indoctrined to act quickly upon being the victim of any sort of abuse and that the system needs to ensure that those same people are reassured that they have nothing to be afraid/ashamed of when making the accusation.

I have 2 girls and if, God-forbid, they were ever put in a situation like that, I would want them to report it immediately, know that they have done nothing to merit being forced to experience that and that nobody would think less of them because of it.
As a father, I don't understand the allure of a settlement either. I would want justice and getting some petty monetary settlement would do nothing to assuage that.

I feel like allowing monetary settlements only perpetuates the problem of "if you're rich, you can do anything" without much reprimand.
A settled case isn't judged on merit, and no verdict is given, so the defendants are always assumed "not guilty". Who does that benefit most?
The victim who gets a little bit of money, or the perpetrator who retains an unblemished reputation instead of a jail cell?

 

[francis246]

I don't normally respond to responses that intentionally miss the point in order to "win" a discussion but I'll make an exception in this case.

I'm sure you got exactly what I meant that I'm not seeking out all minutia of news. I only pick up the "big stories" whether reading a forum like this or seeing news suggestions on things like Twitter feeds and such. I see no reason why this shouldn't have been a major Canadian sports story thus leading to the conclusion it has obviously been suppressed.



The lack of charges and court case IS the issue. That something was acknowledged as happening then paid off with an NDA IS the reason there were no criminal charges. It was an alleged sexual assault by legal age individuals swept under the rug because they've got special privileges as Canadian hockey players.



It isn't "eight arseholes". It's the bureaucratic machinery of Hockey Canada who made this go away. Hockey Canada is obviously complicit in suppressing this. So, yes, all of Hockey Canada should suffer until the people in charge at Hockey Canada don't get the easy out they were given with the incident. If Hockey Canada went away tomorrow it's not like hockey would no longer happen in Canada.


People boycotting an organization is not punishment, it's pressure for them to take meaningful action. Hockey Canada's sponsors have withdrawn support.

I think you gotta freshen up on the case a bit. Because some of the statements you made were factually wrong.

Again I’m pro people coming out saying what happened but she didn’t cooperate with police. She refused to name the players who assaulted her to the police. She hasn’t even told hockey Canada (allegedly) who the players are. She and her lawyers just said 8 CHL players were involved in this assault. It started with a consensual interaction with one player and he invited more players.

This wasn’t a cover up, this is something that is standard in legal practice. Hockey Canada didn’t try and make this go away, they dealt with the allegation immediately (unlike the blackhawks). Most major organizations will settle matters like this because it’s quicker and sometimes even the victims prefer this way because reliving what happened in the public eye can be traumatizing. That seems to be the case here. I don’t think it’s really about the money, it’s more so that the victim wants privacy. She does not want to be identified and she doesn’t want it to be a public matter, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and she doesn’t want those individuals involved to be punished. But maybe for her peace of mind this is the best solution.

As for your other points I agree, Hockey Canada needs a full internal review and have a more transparent process when it comes to allegations and how they handle settlements. Again government money was not used to settle the case (likely sponsorship money, which is why so many sponsors have paused funding).

 

[srnd9399]

What happened then?

I think he's referring to a heated debate between them both with ODog typically raising his voice and Noodles saying something like "look at this guy, smartest guy in the room" and they didn't speak to each other much after that little squabble. But next show I think they addressed it. This was a few years ago and I don't remember much at all.

 

[francis246]

Here is the flaw with your rebuttal though:

The alleged victim (I say alleged victim because if her claims were truthful, she was a victim, but we will never know whether there is any validity to her claims and therefore will remain alleged), decided not to pursue the case in a manner that would provide clarity or bring forth information into the public light.
Hockey Canada would have hired a legal team whose only focus is to get this matter resolved quickly and with no lingering effects. They would have gauged the costs and risk of the defense trial and compared them to a settlement and presented both options to the plaintiff.

At this point, it becomes the choice of the plaintiff to accept the settlement knowing that her claims will die and be buried forever with no possibility of ever being adjudicated, or to continue to fight for justice.

Personally, I think that all sexual assault cases should not have the option to settle and that a resolution needs to come from a judgement after all pertinent information is brought forth.
I also firmly believe that people need to be indoctrined to act quickly upon being the victim of any sort of abuse and that the system needs to ensure that those same people are reassured that they have nothing to be afraid/ashamed of when making the accusation.

I have 2 girls and if, God-forbid, they were ever put in a situation like that, I would want them to report it immediately, know that they have done nothing to merit being forced to experience that and that nobody would think less of them because of it.
As a father, I don't understand the allure of a settlement either. I would want justice and getting some petty monetary settlement would do nothing to assuage that.

I feel like allowing monetary settlements only perpetuates the problem of "if you're rich, you can do anything" without much reprimand.
A settled case isn't judged on merit, and no verdict is given, so the defendants are always assumed "not guilty". Who does that benefit most?
The victim who gets a little bit of money, or the perpetrator who retains an unblemished reputation instead of a jail cell?

Aha we just wrote very similar posts. But I don’t even think it’s the allure of money. I think it’s more, if someone is still so traumatized about the situation, reliving it is painful. It’s hard. Having to be vulnerable and face public scrutiny and being called a liar and forever having the public know it was you that was the victim is not something everyone wants. Some victims prefer that the situation just disappears and they move on. For them mentally, it’s easier to deal with as opposed to go through the legal process. It’s sad, but I have no idea what it’s like mentally to go through that. So I don’t blame them for opting for that route.

 

[colchar]

I don't normally respond to responses that intentionally miss the point in order to "win" a discussion but I'll make an exception in this case.

Uh huh.

I'm sure you got exactly what I meant that I'm not seeking out all minutia of news.

It was far from minutia.

I see no reason why this shouldn't have been a major Canadian sports story

It was, you just didn't see it.

thus leading to the conclusion it has obviously been suppressed.

You not seeing something does not mean it was suppressed, it means you weren't aware of it.

The lack of charges and court case IS the issue. That something was acknowledged as happening then paid off with an NDA IS the reason there were no criminal charges. It was an alleged sexual assault by legal age individuals swept under the rug because they've got special privileges as Canadian hockey players.

For someone who claims not to have known about it, you are claiming knowledge here.

It was not acknowledged as having happened. It is alleged to have happened, nothing more. Absolutely nothing has been proven.

And no the NDA is not the reason there were no criminal charges as the police were involved before the civil suit was launched (had you been aware of the story you would know this). The police did not lay charges, either because they did not see a reasonable prospect of conviction or because she decided not to move forward. That is certainly her right.

But the settlement and NDA do not mean anything happened. Organizations settle lawsuits all the time because they aren't worth fighting for any number of reasons. And it is standard practice to include an NDA.

It isn't "eight arseholes".

Yes actually, it was.

It's the bureaucratic machinery of Hockey Canada who made this go away.

For someone who claims not to have seen the story you are, once again, arguing as if you have the benefit of knowledge. You do not.

None of us here know what happened as the process went on. For you to claim that they made it go away is an assumption, one for which you have no proof.

Hockey Canada is obviously complicit in suppressing this.

Oh it is obvious is it? You need to learn that your opinions are not facts. If there is an NDA they will likely be bound by an inability to disclose as well.

So, yes, all of Hockey Canada should suffer until the people in charge at Hockey Canada don't get the easy out they were given with the incident.

That is moronically stupid - people not even remotely involved should suffer until those at the top don't get the (alleged) easy way out? So people should be punished for things they had bugger all to do with? You must be a fan of little Justin who claims, every single time he is caught screwing up or breaking the rules, that it is a learning moment for all of us. It is a monumentally stupid idea, from him and you.

People boycotting an organization is not punishment, it's pressure for them to take meaningful action. Hockey Canada's sponsors have withdrawn support.

Yes, it is a form of punishment and it is being done in the absence of proof of what allegedly happened.

 

[colchar]

Here is the flaw with your rebuttal though:

The alleged victim (I say alleged victim because if her claims were truthful, she was a victim, but we will never know whether there is any validity to her claims and therefore will remain alleged), decided not to pursue the case in a manner that would provide clarity or bring forth information into the public light.
Hockey Canada would have hired a legal team whose only focus is to get this matter resolved quickly and with no lingering effects. They would have gauged the costs and risk of the defense trial and compared them to a settlement and presented both options to the plaintiff.

At this point, it becomes the choice of the plaintiff to accept the settlement knowing that her claims will die and be buried forever with no possibility of ever being adjudicated, or to continue to fight for justice.

Personally, I think that all sexual assault cases should not have the option to settle and that a resolution needs to come from a judgement after all pertinent information is brought forth.
I also firmly believe that people need to be indoctrined to act quickly upon being the victim of any sort of abuse and that the system needs to ensure that those same people are reassured that they have nothing to be afraid/ashamed of when making the accusation.

I have 2 girls and if, God-forbid, they were ever put in a situation like that, I would want them to report it immediately, know that they have done nothing to merit being forced to experience that and that nobody would think less of them because of it.
As a father, I don't understand the allure of a settlement either. I would want justice and getting some petty monetary settlement would do nothing to assuage that.

I feel like allowing monetary settlements only perpetuates the problem of "if you're rich, you can do anything" without much reprimand.
A settled case isn't judged on merit, and no verdict is given, so the defendants are always assumed "not guilty". Who does that benefit most?
The victim who gets a little bit of money, or the perpetrator who retains an unblemished reputation instead of a jail cell?

The perpetrators only have an unblemished record if their name(s) are kept secret. If those get out, they are guilty in the eyes of the public even if they actually are innocent.

As for completing cases, I get what you are saying but we cannot force victims to pursue things. The issue ends at exactly the point at which they decide they no longer wish to continue proceedings.

 

[colchar]

This wasn’t a cover up, this is something that is standard in legal practice. Hockey Canada didn’t try and make this go away, they dealt with the allegation immediately (unlike the blackhawks). Most major organizations will settle matters like this because it’s quicker and sometimes even the victims prefer this way because reliving what happened in the public eye can be traumatizing. That seems to be the case here. I don’t think it’s really about the money, it’s more so that the victim wants privacy. She does not want to be identified and she doesn’t want it to be a public matter, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and she doesn’t want those individuals involved to be punished. But maybe for her peace of mind this is the best solution.

If the full story came out and anyone involved made the NHL it would blow up huge. If the player stayed in the league, the victim's name would be brought up damned near every time the player was talked about (outside of on-ice play calling). I totally get someone not wanting to experience that.

(likely sponsorship money, which is why so many sponsors have paused funding).

I would say they paused funding so s to protect their own reputations in the current climate.

 

[justashadowof]

That is moronically stupid - people not even remotely involved should suffer until those at the top don't get the (alleged) easy way out? So people should be punished for things they had bugger all to do with? You must be a fan of little Justin who claims, every single time he is caught screwing up or breaking the rules, that it is a learning moment for all of us. It is a monumentally stupid idea, from him and you.

This was your most persuasive argument. My instincts are against agreeing with anything our PM is promoting. His motivations are probably against old Canadian culture but I make an exception in this case because this sort of systemic privilege afforded to hockey people has always repulsed me.

 

[justashadowof]

I'm not sure you understand what a settlement entails.

I'm not sure you understand why every settlement attached to an allegation of criminal injury contains an NDA.

 

[rielledup]

You admit to not watching news then claim it has been suppressed? No, you just weren't aware of it.



There were no charges and no court case, therefore there was no criminal matter.




There are thousands of people involved with Hockey Canada, why should they all be punished for the actions of eight arseholes?

And that brings up another point - nothing has been proven and we only have an accusation. Should everyone be punished based on an accusation? Should proof not be required before punishments are meted out?




Jonas is an pathetic, arrogant little dweeb. Anyone but him.

You must be an odog fan

 

[colchar]

You must be an odog fan

Nope, don't listen to Overdrive much anymore so don't care about any of them.

But out of curiosity, why would you make that statement.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Nope, don't listen to Overdrive much anymore so don't care about any of them.

But out of curiosity, why would you make that statement.

Probably the comment about Siegel.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Hi this is random - but what happened to Hockey Central? I used to somehow listen to that show everyday on like the apple podcasts app. I think it had Doug, Kyper? Marek maybe? I absolutely loved it - I then moved back to Italy and am now back in the USA and I can't find the show.

Did it turn into the Jeff Marek show? I always enjoy him on 32 thoughts - but is there something daily that comes out now? I am desperate for daily hockey talk

 

[thinkblue]

Hi this is random - but what happened to Hockey Central? I used to somehow listen to that show everyday on like the apple podcasts app. I think it had Doug, Kyper? Marek maybe? I absolutely loved it - I then moved back to Italy and am now back in the USA and I can't find the show.

Did it turn into the Jeff Marek show? I always enjoy him on 32 thoughts - but is there something daily that comes out now? I am desperate for daily hockey talk

Yes the Marek show took its slot, but I think that's done for the season and should be back in the fall.
There's also real kyper and Bourne which is more leaf focused.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Yes the Marek show took its slot, but I think that's done for the season and should be back in the fall.
There's also real kyper and Bourne which is more leaf focused.

Thank you - and just to be sure, during the season the Marek show is everyday? What times?

 

[thinkblue]

Thank you - and just to be sure, during the season the Marek show is everyday? What times?

Yep when it's on its mon to Fri, from 12pm to 2pm.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Yep when it's on its mon to Fri, from 12pm to 2pm.

Thank you! Appreciate your help. Toronto is my favorite North American city btw.