Value of: Top 4 Defensive RHD That Can Make a Good Breakout Pass to Edmonton

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ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
33,407
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Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Should have just kept Larsson… or Schultz… or Petry
Schultz was crashing and burning in Edmonton. His confidence was gone. He needed to be moved to save his career, and he did, for a time.

Petry was a major mismanagement by the GM at the time - signed him to a deal that took him right to free agency. The writing was on the wall at that time, but yes, they should have found a way to make Petry happy and keep him. Not that it would have mattered now, he's a bottom pairing guy at best nowadays.

Larsson wasn't going to happen. He's told the story himself, he needed out because his dad died while on vacation in Edmonton - his mom even told him she wouldn't visit Edmonton again, apparently.
 

DingDongCharlie

Registered User
Sep 12, 2010
11,599
9,715
Schultz was crashing and burning in Edmonton. His confidence was gone. He needed to be moved to save his career, and he did, for a time.

Petry was a major mismanagement by the GM at the time - signed him to a deal that took him right to free agency. The writing was on the wall at that time, but yes, they should have found a way to make Petry happy and keep him. Not that it would have mattered now, he's a bottom pairing guy at best nowadays.

Larsson wasn't going to happen. He's told the story himself, he needed out because his dad died while on vacation in Edmonton - his mom even told him she wouldn't visit Edmonton again, apparently.

I hadn't heard this before. If true, I'll need to cut Holland some more slack on trading for Keith. The Keith contract forcing Holland to protect him thus having to expose Larsson. Something I haven't been pleased about to say the least. Hated losing Larsson.
 
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Crazy8oooo

Puck Off!
Sep 12, 2010
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you are not connecting the dots
IF Ducks would take late 1sts for Gibson you would be right.
They won't so you are wrong.


Given any EDM 1st is late, they want 3 1sts NOW-ish not next year and another 2 WAY down the road

As to wanting Gibson at all, that is responding to other posters here
Obv if you want better, assuming that G is available, you have to pay more.

Your prop on Petry is way underpriced for DET
I’m not sure where you get that from. If someone offered three firsts for Gibby , I think Verbeek jumps on it. Dostal is close to ready.
 
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Crazy8oooo

Puck Off!
Sep 12, 2010
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Forgive my ignorance as I am not familiar with Rangers prospects, but in your scenario... why would the Ducks be more interested in two prospects taken in the 2nd and 3rd round of 2022 over the 1st round picks you want from the Oilers for them or any of the Oilers two prospects?

You also pushed the 1st round picks out to 2027 and 2029 which could also be Oilers without McDavid or Drai.

While we can disagree on Gibson's and Petry's value, the point I still do not understand is how and why the Rangers end up with Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Lavoie, 2027 1st, 2029 1st in exchange for Laf, Jones (a 7 LHD), cap dump, McConnell-Barker (2022 3rd round pick), Sykora (2022 2nd round pick)?

There is literally nothing of value the Rangers are giving the Oilers. Oilers don't need top 6 help in Laf and you’re just fleecing the Oilers with an assumption the Oilers can trade your assets somewhere else.
They wouldn’t. Ducks would much rather the picks than those prospects Bern thinks are worth more than 1sts.
 
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crowi

Registered Loser
May 11, 2012
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gonna leave it with this:
if you want Gibson, Ducks will want upwards of 3 1sts NOW as value coming back
Could want some of that in C or F.
BMB and Sykora were not firsts but they are quality elc Fs w/pivot upside

McLeod is bottom 6 meh and only a fit for NY b'c he has speed
Broberg is a gamble and is LD
you would be kicking in Holloway, who is not crushing it and would be less cost controlled than the 2 elcs in my prop.
Again, Holloway happens to be a fit for NY b'c he is a gamble to fit as speedy RW bookend to go w/Kreider.

So all this into consideration, don't see IF you go for Gibson, you can do it otherwise, esp if you are insisting ANA takes back Campbell at half.

As to ripping Oil off,
LaF has no less upside than the above pieces.

If you go by draft order as just 1 -- not the only, just 1 --- yardstick
you are basically giving up a top 10 in Broberg and a mid 1st in Holloway, plus some throw in,
for LaF = 1OA who sucked ass big time, yes but has skating improved enuf to have a restart from this pt forward

not a rip off as you say, and by all means, you have other, cheaper, better options, go for it!


cap doesn't care
Rs like many teams can be viewed as kicking the can down the road
but next season, when his nmc->ntc, he's gone, likely to DET

Only way this doesn't happen is if bread, who is iron clad nmc for balance of his term, recognizes he is not getting another deal from Rs, and agrees to go early.
Simply put, Ducks DON'T NEED RANGERS TO DEAL WITH OILERS. No one cares about your intricate bullshit. Also STILL, so fixated on what position some player was drafted YEARS ago, much like Kravtsov. You never learn.
 
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bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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So the "simple" solutions others propose that resemble typical trades can be dismissed as you usually do, and the incredibly convoluted trades you seem to admit are extremely unlikely to ever happen are an important subject for discussion? Doesn't that kind of seem backwards?
Your attempt to create a false narrative seeking to throw shade on me will not work.
Every situation is different but they all depend on the merits.
In some isolated cases, a simple solution can work b'c the underlying problem is actually simple.
Howev, that is rare, if we are being honest.

More typically you have either
a situation which is inherently complicated at day 1, square 1
OR
a simple problem that can accept a simple solution, but it is in vacuum, and getting out of the vacuum requires it interfacing with other problems requiring their own solutions, which results in the need to create at least one scenario where all the problems can be solved using different [i.e., non duplicative] assets.

So sure, other than God Who is absolute, everyone/everything else is at least to some degree relative.
Hence there may reasonably be presumed to be an exception to every rule.
But what I said, as a rule, was correct.

As that relates here, to the board, rarely do our teams have so much depth, etc., that one or even two moves in a vacuum will solve all issues.
Usually, correcting one issue is at cost to something else, and at some point that piper gets paid.

peace out
 
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bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,310
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Da Big Apple
Simply put, Ducks DON'T NEED RANGERS TO DEAL WITH OILERS. No one cares about your intricate bullshit.
Fine
put up or shut up

let's see you come up w/realistic deals sending Gibson to Oil taking back Campbell at half and covering other bases.
Let's see you thoroughly address main aspects comprehensively as I did.

Oil do not have enuf short term assets and require a partner. Not nec NYR, but def need a partner
 

crowi

Registered Loser
May 11, 2012
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Helsinki
Fine
put up or shut up

let's see you come up w/realistic deals sending Gibson to Oil taking back Campbell at half and covering other bases.
Let's see you thoroughly address main aspects comprehensively as I did.

Oil do not have enuf short term assets and require a partner. Not nec NYR, but def need a partner
You're NOW in a thread about OILERS needing a TOP-4 RHD, calling ME OUT to make a deal about GIBSON (goalie). Do you not understand how out of f***ing touch you are?
 

spaghtti

Registered User
Oct 13, 2013
2,047
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Fine
put up or shut up

let's see you come up w/realistic deals sending Gibson to Oil taking back Campbell at half and covering other bases.
Let's see you thoroughly address main aspects comprehensively as I did.

Oil do not have enuf short term assets and require a partner. Not nec NYR, but def need a partner
I like how you challenged someone to make a realistic proposal when you can do one that isn't so lopsided in the Rangers favor
 

Crazy8oooo

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Sep 12, 2010
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pay attention
context matters
2 of those 3 1sts are YEARS down the road
Pay attention. Your offer is bad and three 1st round picks would be much more enticing. Doesn’t matter when they are because it’s not going to happen anyway. But if it came down to your prospects vs three first rounders that are a few years out, those first rounders win every time. You make statements as though you’re right and everyone else is wrong. You have the Ducks trading off their starting goaltender, one of their vets who they recently signed, and then to top it off, you want them to give up a prospect and a pick for another dman who according to you will make Fowler expendable. Though, that other dman isn’t going to replace Fowlers near 50 points where I don’t believe he’s ever even scored 20. It’s the same with all of your posts. They always strongly favor the Rangers while not making any sense for the other team. It only makes sense to you and you’ll argue it until you’re blue in the face.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Da Big Apple
Pay attention. Your offer is bad and three 1st round picks would be much more enticing. Doesn’t matter when they are because it’s not going to happen anyway. But if it came down to your prospects vs three first rounders that are a few years out, those first rounders win every time. You make statements as though you’re right and everyone else is wrong. You have the Ducks trading off their starting goaltender, one of their vets who they recently signed, and then to top it off, you want them to give up a prospect and a pick for another dman who according to you will make Fowler expendable. Though, that other dman isn’t going to replace Fowlers near 50 points where I don’t believe he’s ever even scored 20. It’s the same with all of your posts. They always strongly favor the Rangers while not making any sense for the other team. It only makes sense to you and you’ll argue it until you’re blue in the face.
bold: disingenuous -- matters or not on merit of argument, not your dismissive, closeminded posture. {And some say I'm arrogant!}

underline: wrong.
There is an established principle in the real world called the time value of mpney.
The 2 later picks could be better, or worse, there is no way to know. But it is certain they do not have use of those assets until they are first made player selections, and then typically develop before NHL debut IF they hit. It would be 5+ years for each of these, easy.

OTOH, Sykora + BMB look good right now. No guarantee. But not crazy to suspect if that deal done today, they compete as early as the next camp.

italic
I am unaware that Gibson/Strome are officially off limits, and sure, Ducks properly do not want to just give away. I am not the first to join the convo about if selling high on Gibby makes sense or not. Fair ?, competition of ideas shaped on specific suggestions.
It is fair if you prefer they be kept, but it is on you to substantiate that is better for the team b'c you ostensibly argue value of current vet production > than potential upside of youth + better cap going forward.

As to the D
the guy replacing Fowler is Lindgren, who is not chump change.
That Lindgren is younger than Fowler is not open to debate.
 

Tufted Titmouse

13 Cups.
Apr 5, 2022
6,222
8,322
I think Edmonton should be keep a close eye on NYI. I am not sure what to think of that team, but the East will be much more competitive in the middle and I am not sure they can keep up. They have an abundance of good D.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
33,407
13,892
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Fine
put up or shut up

let's see you come up w/realistic deals sending Gibson to Oil taking back Campbell at half and covering other bases.
Let's see you thoroughly address main aspects comprehensively as I did.

Oil do not have enuf short term assets and require a partner. Not nec NYR, but def need a partner
Come on Bern, you can't seriously be here challenging anyone to come up with something realistic...
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,320
21,030
Josh Manson may be available next off-season since Colorado probably need to open some capspace if/when Landeskog returns and Toews' new deal kicks in.

Guessing Edmonton may be one of the teams listed on his 12 team NTC though, unless he wants to play for the team his dad is an assistant coach for.
 
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AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
18,820
19,972
Toronto
Luke Schenn would be a perfect fit, physical, good defender, great at clearing the crease. Ideally you want him on the 3rd pair though.

Mayfield is the ideal guy but he just resigned so I don't know if he's available.
 
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ElPrimeTime

Registered User
Dec 23, 2014
982
911
Edmonton, AB
remember, reading is yr friend esp as to details

They are elc picks that appear so far to have hit, at position good for ANA in this deal, but way more importantly, you keep ignoring that the 2022 picks are available now providing a return Ducks want now to replace Strome. I am taking 2 EDM 1sts, yes but stop ignoring how far down the road that is.
Ducks don't want to wait that long for Oil picks
you don't have youth to deal
and it is ?able whether or not Bro/Holl have shown enuf to command a signif return to date.

potential? certainly.
But again happens to be a fit for Rs, otherwise value is less

I have been trying to have a civil conversation with you in regards to your valuation and genuinely don't appreciate the condescending "reading is yr friend" crap.

You need to take the L on this one. Not only are Oilers fans telling you it's way too much, but you are now arguing with Ducks' fans on what they would accept in return for their own players. You may consider yourself to be an expert in the evaluation of your own teams talents, but are no way an expert in other teams needs and wants. Flat out, you came into a thread with the Oilers wanting a Top 4 RHD, inserted the Rangers to get the equivalent of 4 1st round picks and 2nd round picks from the Oilers for a minimal return with some crazy hypotheticals on how your prospects hit and have 1st round value.

Take the L, leave Broberg alone and move on my guy.
 
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ElPrimeTime

Registered User
Dec 23, 2014
982
911
Edmonton, AB
I hadn't heard this before. If true, I'll need to cut Holland some more slack on trading for Keith. The Keith contract forcing Holland to protect him thus having to expose Larsson. Something I haven't been pleased about to say the least. Hated losing Larsson.

Larsson was also a pending UFA, so even if he was protected, he probably still walks. I think a lot of the things wrong with the Oilers D can be attributed to one, terrible, heart wrenching moment, imo... the Klefbom injury.

If Klefbom doesn't get hurt:

- Nurse doesn't see increased playing time and have a career year before getting his new contract, probably gets a contract in the 6-7 million dollar range instead
- Keith doesn't get brought in as you have Klef/Nurse as your top two, that additional cap space can be used to improve goaltending
- Better chance Larsson stays as it appears he and Larsson were and still are super close. If I remember correctly, in a recent interview, Larsson said he still talks to Klefbom everyday
- Barrie doesn't get signed as Klef is there to QB the PP, money that is used to improve other areas
- One negative, Ekholm isn't added

Oilers D could have been, with cap savings on Nurse:
Klef-Larsson
Nurse-Ceci
Broberg-Bouchard
 
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bucks_oil

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
8,665
5,017
I hadn't heard this before. If true, I'll need to cut Holland some more slack on trading for Keith. The Keith contract forcing Holland to protect him thus having to expose Larsson. Something I haven't been pleased about to say the least. Hated losing Larsson.

We talked about it in general terms A LOT on the HFOil board. Not many could believe that Holland traded for Keith KNOWING that Larsson was unlikely to stay or had already communicated he was leaving.
 

Cup or Bust

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
4,311
3,769
I hadn't heard this before. If true, I'll need to cut Holland some more slack on trading for Keith. The Keith contract forcing Holland to protect him thus having to expose Larsson. Something I haven't been pleased about to say the least. Hated losing Larsson.
Yeah Larsson didn't want to stay in Edmonton unfortunately. Holland wanted to keep Larsson.
 

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