Value of: Top 4 Defensive RHD That Can Make a Good Breakout Pass to Edmonton

[DingerMcSlapshot]

To get this piece. The Oilers have to give up a piece they don't want to. No other team will accept Edmonton's garbage in return. I'm talking 1st rd picks and top prospects needed. Oilers are a very flawed team with only one way out. Deal Draisaitl in a block buster or watch him and McDavid walk soon. Oilers aren't going to win with McDrai anyway. 40ish million for Nurse and McDrai soon. Not a recipe for success. Never happen both walk.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

agree to disagree

Forgive my ignorance as I am not familiar with Rangers prospects, but in your scenario... why would the Ducks be more interested in two prospects taken in the 2nd and 3rd round of 2022 over the 1st round picks you want from the Oilers for them or any of the Oilers two prospects?

You also pushed the 1st round picks out to 2027 and 2029 which could also be Oilers without McDavid or Drai.

While we can disagree on Gibson's and Petry's value, the point I still do not understand is how and why the Rangers end up with Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Lavoie, 2027 1st, 2029 1st in exchange for Laf, Jones (a 7 LHD), cap dump, McConnell-Barker (2022 3rd round pick), Sykora (2022 2nd round pick)?

There is literally nothing of value the Rangers are giving the Oilers. Oilers don't need top 6 help in Laf and your just fleecing the Oilers with an assumption the Oilers can trade your assets somewhere else.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Tyler Myers would be a great rental, did you know he’s 6”7????

In serious note, OEL :p

 

[Byrddog]

You understand they won a cup without Gretzky


You understand they won a cup after trading Gretzky.

Yes and they won 4 with him . And it’s been what 34 years since????? I mean not as long as the Leafs last cup but it remains a shitty move to trade the best player to ever lace them up. In an era where cap did not matter.

 

[ffh]

Petry not likely available now except for overpayment = conventional wisdom
Outside the box solution:
DET has 4.4M cap, so not much more than 4 works w'o balance

Panarin makes only .6ish more than Doughty, bread has 1 yr less term + is younger
That may/may not be enuf incentive, could be on paper.
Kings prob also want Strome who always had cheistry w/bread cheap
Rs are not acquiring Strome.
But ducks have Carlson, Zegras, MacTavish as a young pivot core, so he can be had fdor a profit.
Oil also want Gibson for net
Oil lack assets to acquire

1st deal:
Rs send LaF + Jones + cap dump Leshitshow [<1m expires next yr]
to Oil for
Broberg, Holloway, MacLeod + Lavoie

this works for Oil b'c LaF, moving forward, if sufficient skating now showing is another Steve Vickers who is a marketing coup, and the price paid are currently secondary pieces or not on the roster.
For NY, lower cost youth w/speed + upside

2. MY sends higher elc prospects McConnell-Barker and Sykora to Oil for EDM 2027 and 2029 1sts
This is otherwise overpayment to extent 1sts are above the draft positions, but mitigated by can is kicked WAY down the road.

3. Oil can now do their own 2024 1st + McConnell-Barker and Sykora + Campbell max retained 4 yrs down from 5 to 2.5 per
to ANA for
Gibson + Strome
build move by Ducks, Oil get G and trade item

4. 3 way, Oil, NY, LA
Kings get Panarin + Strome
Rs get Doughty
Oil get ____________ from LA for Strome

5 Trouba wil likely go next yr due to cap, and DET was only preferred destination besides NYR before he signed.
w/Fox/Doughty/Schneider as RD can do Trouba to Red Wings which enables Petry to Oil

3 way:
later cond 2024 or 2025 BOS pick + Rassmusen to NYR
NYR Trouba + NYR 2024 2nd + Jones via OIL to DET
Petry + about 6m cap dumps [maybe Kostin + Ghostb?] to EDM

That ballpark works $$ wise
Oil get netminder + usefful LD+RD now

other clubs, benes is as described
=================
after this, NYR deal Lindgren to ANA for RD prospect Helleson + 2024 2nd
this allows Ducks to move older Fowler replace w/younger Lindy
Rs LD = KAM, Gust and Broberg/Robertson/Scanlin for 3LD and compete for 2Ld w/1 reserve

You honestly think a team would name a captain (trouba) knowing their cap restraints just to trade him in 2 years. Not likely

 

[bernmeister]

Forgive my ignorance as I am not familiar with Rangers prospects, but in your scenario... why would the Ducks be more interested in two prospects taken in the 2nd and 3rd round of 2022 over the 1st round picks you want from the Oilers for them or any of the Oilers two prospects?

You also pushed the 1st round picks out to 2027 and 2029 which could also be Oilers without McDavid or Drai.

While we can disagree on Gibson's and Petry's value, the point I still do not understand is how and why the Rangers end up with Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Lavoie, 2027 1st, 2029 1st in exchange for Laf, Jones (a 7 LHD), cap dump, McConnell-Barker (2022 3rd round pick), Sykora (2022 2nd round pick)?

There is literally nothing of value the Rangers are giving the Oilers. Oilers don't need top 6 help in Laf and your just fleecing the Oilers with an assumption the Oilers can trade your assets somewhere else.

gonna leave it with this:
if you want Gibson, Ducks will want upwards of 3 1sts NOW as value coming back
Could want some of that in C or F.
BMB and Sykora were not firsts but they are quality elc Fs w/pivot upside

McLeod is bottom 6 meh and only a fit for NY b'c he has speed
Broberg is a gamble and is LD
you would be kicking in Holloway, who is not crushing it and would be less cost controlled than the 2 elcs in my prop.
Again, Holloway happens to be a fit for NY b'c he is a gamble to fit as speedy RW bookend to go w/Kreider.

So all this into consideration, don't see IF you go for Gibson, you can do it otherwise, esp if you are insisting ANA takes back Campbell at half.

As to ripping Oil off,
LaF has no less upside than the above pieces.

If you go by draft order as just 1 -- not the only, just 1 --- yardstick
you are basically giving up a top 10 in Broberg and a mid 1st in Holloway, plus some throw in,
for LaF = 1OA who sucked ass big time, yes but has skating improved enuf to have a restart from this pt forward

not a rip off as you say, and by all means, you have other, cheaper, better options, go for it!

You honestly think a team would name a captain (trouba) knowing their cap restraints just to trade him in 2 years. Not likely

cap doesn't care
Rs like many teams can be viewed as kicking the can down the road
but next season, when his nmc->ntc, he's gone, likely to DET

Only way this doesn't happen is if bread, who is iron clad nmc for balance of his term, recognizes he is not getting another deal from Rs, and agrees to go early.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Charles McAvoy for Dtaisaitl

 

[Dakinjor]

Charles McAvoy for Dtaisaitl

As good as McAvoy is, if the oilers trade Draisaitl (which will never happen btw) it would be for a package to fix depth in addition to a star player.

 

[spaghtti]

The Oil have been cursed since trading Gretzky at least that’s the way I experienced it. That move and what they did to Ryan Smyth chased me away.

For more than a decade they have just given lip service to D and goaltending. They have traded away nice forwards and made no headway in fixing there issues. Tiff years the eggs have been in the Nurse basket, as it runs out Nurse can be the best player on the ice one night and the next a minor league but, he is not team oriented 90% of the time. I’m torn one part of me would like to see the team return to relevance and part of me will never forgive the sins they committed long ago.

One thing is for sure the clock is ticking and they are more than a player or two away from being a team that can make a multi year run. Soon the Cap is going to choke them . Being impartial they are headed to the same situation Toronto is in.

I don't see how the Greztky trade can be the defining moment of a curse when they won the cup a year after he was traded

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Zac Jones, pack your suitcase. Don’t forget your long John’s

 

[biturbo19]

The reality is, everyone wants a big, rugged, physical, defensively oriented, stabilizing Top-4 RHD.

The other reality is, there are only like a dozen of those guys in the NHL. And the teams that have them mostly like to keep them for themselves.


So everyone else is left sort of scouring around the edges for fringe Top-4 #5ish versions, LHD playing their off side, and various other stopgap measures.



The Oilers situation is obviously complicated even more, by the fact that they're basically looking for a ~$7m caliber babysitter...for their $9.5M lunkhead.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Oilers lose 2 games to a team that has started hot for the past few years only to become a dump around Christmas and now we need to make a trade? Damn calm down my fellow Oil fans and let atleast 20 games play out.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Oilers lose 2 games to a team that has started hot for the past few years only to become a dump around Christmas and now we need to make a trade? Damn calm down my fellow Oil fans and let atleast 20 games play out.

Do you think that our D is good enough to win the cup with? I don't. Whether it is now or later this season, the player type that I posted about is needed to boost our chances of making it to the SCF.

 

[ManofSteel55]

He is referencing my prop which had 2 presum late Oil 1sts from WAY WAY down the road for 2 prospects you need now to entice ANA.
Instead adding those 2 very delayed 1sts to your current 2024 1st is not enuf inducement for Ducks.

The pieces I sought for LaF where a unique fit for Rs.
Would they suffice to ANA for Gibson?
Not certain...
Also this thread is about adding an RD and so far only one that is a fit is Petry.

I had a follow thru which enabled Pet from DET

Comprehensive solutions are not easy...

I think it's safe to say that Petry isn't the answer, both in his performance, and with hiw glad he was to leave.

Do you think that our D is good enough to win the cup with? I don't. Whether it is now or later this season, the player type that I posted about is needed to boost our chances of making it to the SCF.

I think the quality if Edmonton's defense rests largely on the shoulders of Broberg. It isn't fair, but if he puts it together to become a top 4 defenseman this season, it goes a long way to fixing the issue.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Yes and they won 4 with him . And it’s been what 34 years since????? I mean not as long as the Leafs last cup but it remains a shitty move to trade the best player to ever lace them up. In an era where cap did not matter.

Gretzky was "sold". It wasn't a hockey decision. It was a financial one brought on by the owner needing liquid assets ($15m cash). It being a pre-cap era means nothing as the owner didn't have the financial assets to benefit from a lack of a cap anyway.

"We" let Coffey go over a contract dispute and sold the greatest player ever. What I'm saying is these where not organizational decisions. These were ownerships one. A huge difference in my book. I've never held the Gretzky trade against the team. Honestly, I don't know why you would. It wasn't anything wanted by the players, coaching staff or teams management. For me my anger has only been directed where it belongs, Peter Pocklington.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Do you think that our D is good enough to win the cup with? I don't. Whether it is now or later this season, the player type that I posted about is needed to boost our chances of making it to the SCF.

Making a trade now is one of the worst things you could do regardless of whether the area still needs improvement. Supply will exceed demand later in the season, not 3 games in.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Oilers lose 2 games to a team that has started hot for the past few years only to become a dump around Christmas and now we need to make a trade? Damn calm down my fellow Oil fans and let atleast 20 games play out.

The same issue facing the team today (needing a top pairing RD) will remain at game 20. This is something that won't be addressed until the trade deadline if at all this season.

You are correct. Everyone needs to calm down. No point getting worked up over the team needs when the solution is either unavailable (lack of sellers), or unaffordable/manageable cap wise.

The greatest cap flexibility the team can build is for the deadline. The time of season when more players suiting our needs will be made available. In the meantime we need to go to war with what we have.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

gonna leave it with this:
if you want Gibson, Ducks will want upwards of 3 1sts NOW as value coming back
Could want some of that in C or F.
BMB and Sykora were not firsts but they are quality elc Fs w/pivot upside

Why are your 2nd and 3rd picks from 2022 more valuable than 1st round picks that belong to the Oilers or any of the prospects the Oilers have? I don't understand your evaluation here at all. You wanted two 1st round picks for those guys. Oilers could get better prospects for 1sts then recent 2nd/3rd picks that haven't done a damn thing yet.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Should have just kept Larsson… or Schultz… or Petry

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Should have just kept Larsson… or Schultz… or Petry

Larsson wanted to leave because living in the city where his dad died was very hard for him. Schultz is a lesser version of Bouchard and Petry was a good player that MacTavish handled very poorly.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Girard sounds like a perfect fit.

 

[bandwagonesque]

They've been looking for one for like 8 years. Dunno why they didn't move on DeAngelo when he's been available like 3 times in the last 3 years.

Probably for the same reason that he's been available 3 times in the last 3 years.

 

[bandwagonesque]

people want simple solutions to complex problems.
Reality is usually, complex solutions needed to solve complex problems,
and you hope maybe to smooth the edges over time

Do you realize that no series of trades as elaborate as the one you suggest here has ever taken place?

 

[bernmeister]

Why are your 2nd and 3rd picks from 2022 more valuable than 1st round picks that belong to the Oilers or any of the prospects the Oilers have? I don't understand your evaluation here at all. You wanted two 1st round picks for those guys. Oilers could get better prospects for 1sts then recent 2nd/3rd picks that haven't done a damn thing yet.

remember, reading is yr friend esp as to details

They are elc picks that appear so far to have hit, at position good for ANA in this deal, but way more importantly, you keep ignoring that the 2022 picks are available now providing a return Ducks want now to replace Strome. I am taking 2 EDM 1sts, yes but stop ignoring how far down the road that is.
Ducks don't want to wait that long for Oil picks
you don't have youth to deal
and it is ?able whether or not Bro/Holl have shown enuf to command a signif return to date.

potential? certainly.
But again happens to be a fit for Rs, otherwise value is less

Do you realize that no series of trades as elaborate as the one you suggest here has ever taken place?

That is irrelevant.
The ? is if in abstract, conceptually, do they work.
If yes on that basis, they deserve to be considered.

 

[bandwagonesque]

That is irrelevant.
The ? is if in abstract, conceptually, do they work.
If yes on that basis, they deserve to be considered.

So the "simple" solutions others propose that resemble typical trades can be dismissed as you usually do, and the incredibly convoluted trades you seem to admit are extremely unlikely to ever happen are an important subject for discussion? Doesn't that kind of seem backwards?