Tribute The Official "Fire Tortorella" Thread

[Flyerfan4life]

Russ Joy letting it loose on Torts

that poor guys gunna have his head explode when Torts moves to front office and Lappy is Torts underling HC..

 

[The Last Red]

I dont think its a coaching/Torts problem. He is an easy lightning rod for the anger of the fanbase about years of futilty and worse not much near term hope for significant improvement. Sure he does some head scratchers but they dont move the needle as far as being a contender. AV Hakstol Torts are all professional hockey coaches with long resumes of success....until they come here. I wonder what the Flyers record under Snider was compared to Scott. Although the last few GMs were weak I beleive its a Comcast problem and until some really rich hockey nut buys the Flyers.....I like DB i hope he will become a good GM and get really lucky somehow.

Finding a decent coach is much easier than top 6 centers and 1 D's, obviously.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I feel like he's a good coach that has had success, but is unable to adapt to the game as it has progressed.

That success left him long ago. Rode prime Lundqvist to one conference final appearance and has only been past the 1st rd twice since his cup win. He is a loser

 

[Beef Invictus]

I mean for the most part i agree with what he's saying.

Although I don't agree with the tanking a season just for a pick.

And it's also hard to gauge how big of a leash torts has with the front office considering it is mostly a new one with hopefully a better plan forward.

Unless I heard wrong he claims that other coaches didn't get near a long leash as torts.

I mean AV was fired entering his 3rd year
Hakstol lasted until the start of his 4th year.

Hell the longest tenured coach for the Flyers was 7 years and it was shero. The average lifespan of a flyers coach is 3 to 4 years, so I don't get that part.

I also like how he mentions things like how in all his years covering the sport he has never seen xyz or whatever, but the dude is young as shit lol.

To me he kind of sounds like an angry fan venting his frustrations in that clip than anything.

Not hating on the guy, just my observation from watching this clip and never following him.

I must again point out that nothing about the front office is new. It is made entirely of the old one.

 

[deadhead]

I don’t necessarily blame Tortorella for the current on ice play. But at the same time there’s a subset of people whether that’s fans, media, the organization, Tortorella himself, etc. that love to give him credit for when things are going good so…

They’re ultimately picking up where they left off last year. The same issues for the most part are showing again & that’s probably an indictment of the roster.

Where I would more so criticize Tortorella is in fact for the roster construction which he has a say in. I’m sure as shit he’s probably had good in say in reasons as to why they haven’t traded certain players so far because of culture reasons.

I think it's less culture than "swiss cheese."

You saw what happened with Seeler out, whether E Johnson or promoting Zamula to 2nd pair.
Hathaway is one of their most consistent (if limited) forwards.
What bought Laughton time was probably the huge hole at center, Cout's injury history, etc.

It's not a matter of fielding a PO team, it's the desire to be competitive as a better environment for player development (losing hard fought games much better than getting blown out on a regular basis, as we've seen in this season's start).

Almost all the best prospects are either 20-21 in the AHL or in the CHL/SHL/KHL/NCAA.

So they're reluctant to part with second and third tier veterans until enough young players are NHL ready. And that may take 1-2 more years (how fast will Avon, Tuomaala, etc. develop, are Barkey, Bonk, etc. NHL ready next year or will they need AHL time, when will Ciernek et al. come to the US and so on).

They still have less 30 and older veterans than most if not all the other rebuilding teams.

 

[Shrike]

If they fire Torts they better bring in somebody good. Sick of revolving coaches. Letting Lavy go was a crime.

Lavy was a victim of the front office acquiring pre lockout style players for a post lockout style coach. Adding Nick Grossman to a Laviolette team is a clear example of what is wrong with the Flyers front office. It isn’t hard to know that Lavy’s system required puck moving defensemen yet the FO brought in defensive defenseman. (Using Chel player model presets).

 

[Stop the Madness]

I must again point out that nothing about the front office is new. It is made entirely of the old one.

I suppose looking at it as a whole you are right for sure. Good point

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lavy was a victim of the front office acquiring pre lockout style players for a post lockout style coach. Adding Nick Grossman to a Laviolette team is a clear example of what is wrong with the Flyers front office. It isn’t hard to know that Lavy’s system required puck moving defensemen yet the FO brought in defensive defenseman. (Using Chel player model presets).

Lavi is the start of a pattern we see with every coach since; abandoning offensive attack that carries any risk in favor of heavy emphasis on defending and preventing goals. He didn't know how to reconcile any of it (though he did actually figure it out in Nashville/WAS); and the fact is that those players they got were theoretically suited for a meatshield style, but only if you follow the weird Hockeyguy notion that players who are bad at offense must be good at defense, and vice versa. Those guys just sucked no matter what you did with them or how you did it.

Berube ran a defensive shell with a very slow and deliberate transition that moved everyone up as a five man unit and had no quick strike ability, but in theory meant picking anything off for a fast counterattack was hard. Hakstol, well, we know how ridiculously low-risk that guy was. Both of them were less safe in their next gigs, more open offensively. They hired AV, and the second he hit a bump he did a thing he has never once done: pulled back his stretch hockey to try and be heavily defensive...with no cohesive defensive system, and despite having shown for years that he had no idea how to coach defense. It's impossible for me to believe that management wasn't shouting in all of their ears to coach that style. It keeps happening, even with two of the last coaches anyone thought would try it.

They'd basically been trying to be Tortorella at his NYR worst, with worse rosters, and so finally they stopped trying to get different coaches to pretend at it and went straight to the source.

And so here we are!

 

[Embiid]

Lavy was a victim of the front office acquiring pre lockout style players for a post lockout style coach. Adding Nick Grossman to a Laviolette team is a clear example of what is wrong with the Flyers front office. It isn’t hard to know that Lavy’s system required puck moving defensemen yet the FO brought in defensive defenseman. (Using Chel player model presets).

Trading JVR for Luke Schenn was even more undermining...

 

[The Last Red]

False they just flat out like those players and dont want to move them. You can always find a vet off the scrap heap to get you through the year.

Out of all the rebuilding teams. I will include the Flyers for this one. Where do you rank them in terms of who you think will have better future success and contend the quickest. Who has the better talent pool when combining NHL roster and prospects? Rank em.

Flyers, Sharks, Ducks, Chicago, Montreal, and Columbus

Can I respond in 3-4 years? Just in terms of prospect pool, I would rank CBJ and Flyers 4 and 5 of that group.

 

[deadhead]

Ask me after the 2025 draft, those teams started earlier.
Basically a rebuild gets one or two deep drafts after you trade veterans and accumulate draft picks.

The reason Flyer coaches tended to go into "shells" was lack of talent after 2012.

When you have firepower spread over 3 lines and a reliable goalie who can stop his share of odd man rushes, you can play a more aggressive style.

When you have one scoring line and you're not confident in your goalie you play it safe and hope to steal points.

Not rocket science.

 

[renberg]

The exchange between Tortorella and Seeler from last night’s game was noted in today’s Inky. Sounds like the players have had their fill of the coach trying to put every failure on them. Even the casual fan can see the lack of cohesion that is taking place on the ice due to poor coaching. MM starts the game on a line with Couturier and Foerster. Next thing he’s being flipped out there with Konecny and Frost. It’s impossible to build lines when they’re constantly being shuffled. Then folks wonder why there are missed opportunities and blown coverages. The team looks like a mess because the guy behind the bench is one.

 

[Rebels57]

The exchange between Tortorella and Seeler from last night’s game was noted in today’s Inky. Sounds like the players have had their fill of the coach trying to put every failure on them. Even the casual fan can see the lack of cohesion that is taking place on the ice due to poor coaching. MM starts the game on a line with Couturier and Foerster. Next thing he’s being flipped out there with Konecny and Frost. It’s impossible to build lines when they’re constantly being shuffled. Then folks wonder why there are missed opportunities and blown coverages. The team looks like a mess because the guy behind the bench is one.

Bingo. Line chemistry is extremely important in the D zone..not just the O zone.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I figure he's trying out guys to see what works and what doesn't and he's also trying to push buttons.

Three things I think are true for me so far:
1. Zamula is a #7
2. If you are going with Ersson, bring in a vet goalie. With Annunen taking over, Kahkonen or Georgiev would be a better vet than Kolosov and Fedotov.
3. If you are keeping Luchanko and bringing him in slowly, staple him to Couturier to swap on the 3rd line and bring him along that way.

Foerster Laughton* Konecny
Farabee Frost Michkov
Couturier Luchanko Tippett
Cates Poeling Hathaway
Deslauriers

Sanheim Ristolainen*
Seeler Drysdale
York Andrae
Zamula

Ersson
Kahkonen/Georgiev

*I get they shouldn't be there

 

[Embiid]

The only thing Torts is "trying" to do is undermine player development and any hope of this team becoming a sustainable contender.....

 

[ajgoal]

The only thing Torts is "trying" to do is undermine player development and any hope of this team becoming a sustainable contender.....

No, he's just falling into it by accident.

 

[ponder719]

Russ Joy letting it loose on Torts

Huge news. When you've lost Russ Joy, well, you've lost Russ Joy. That surely counts for something minuscule.

Seriously, there is only one person's opinion that matters here, and as long as that person idolizes BSB vibes over actual success, no amount of discontent will dislodge the Spiritual Leader.

 

[mr figgles]

Why do you have a hard time admitting the Flyers are an incompetent organization?

They are his employer

 

[deadhead]

Why do you have a hard time admitting the Flyers are an incompetent organization?

Holmgren retired.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

They are his employer

bingo...

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Holmgren retired.

He did?

 

[Stop the Madness]

Lavi is the start of a pattern we see with every coach since; abandoning offensive attack that carries any risk in favor of heavy emphasis on defending and preventing goals. He didn't know how to reconcile any of it (though he did actually figure it out in Nashville/WAS); and the fact is that those players they got were theoretically suited for a meatshield style, but only if you follow the weird Hockeyguy notion that players who are bad at offense must be good at defense, and vice versa. Those guys just sucked no matter what you did with them or how you did it.

Berube ran a defensive shell with a very slow and deliberate transition that moved everyone up as a five man unit and had no quick strike ability, but in theory meant picking anything off for a fast counterattack was hard. Hakstol, well, we know how ridiculously low-risk that guy was. Both of them were less safe in their next gigs, more open offensively. They hired AV, and the second he hit a bump he did a thing he has never once done: pulled back his stretch hockey to try and be heavily defensive...with no cohesive defensive system, and despite having shown for years that he had no idea how to coach defense. It's impossible for me to believe that management wasn't shouting in all of their ears to coach that style. It keeps happening, even with two of the last coaches anyone thought would try it.

They'd basically been trying to be Tortorella at his NYR worst, with worse rosters, and so finally they stopped trying to get different coaches to pretend at it and went straight to the source.

And so here we are!

Good write up.

 

[BernieParent]

Russ Joy letting it loose on Torts

A few thoughts:

• Russ Joy does a great Mickey Mouse voice.
• His criticisms would hold a lot more weight if he hadn't started with a wah-wah complaint about protecting their Flyers-affilitated show from the bad ol' coach who did what he has done everywhere else he has been.
• Do I tolerate when speakers ask and then answer questions? Yes. Have I done this myself? Yes. Does Russ Joy overuse this speaking technique? Absolutely.

 

[freakydallas13]

• Do I tolerate when speakers ask and then answer questions? Yes. Have I done this myself? Yes. Does Russ Joy overuse this speaking technique? Absolutely.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Good write up.

Bad news, I pondered more.


The Flyers' overarching philosophy that spits on the idea of offense is limiting. It takes options off the table. In no sport is it a good idea to limit yourself and remove options.

I watch the Flyers on offense, and how thoroughly smothered they are. They're clearly figured out by a league that's seen them repeatedly. They aren't just individually beaten as players, these individuals have nowhere to go. And Tortorella has given them no Plan B.

I have long thumped admirably on Boston's transition under Julien. The team could chip it in. They could carry it in, too. But they were rarely easily contained by any team, because they had a neat Plan C for when a team was doing a good job stopping both: They passed to the other side of the ice. Like, long-ass borderline stretch pass from near the boards to near the opposite boards. The reasoning was simple: If a team is able to stop us from dumping and chasing, and also leaving no room to carry in, there must be room somewhere, and they bet it was on the other side of the ice. And this simple solution worked well. Sure enough, there was usually more room, and the act of passing across forced teams to open up and create more room as they reacted and shifted. It's not like Carolina, who when you watch them you start noticing they have an array of prepared plays to gain the zone. Or TB, who for multiple years had somehow managed to make the long-mocked stretch transition into a multi-level beast that was hell to stop and seemed to rely on careful timing and spacing of guys of different speeds stretching opponents apart.

Nah. Just the simplest "Well they have covered A, and covered B, so we shall do C until we can do the other things again."

What plan B does Tortorella provide? None. There has been the one plan. No other option. Forget the idea of a 3rd. That's work, and as Tortorella said when hired, he doesn't bother to do that part of the job anymore because he hates talking to players. I wanted to make this thread the second those quotes dropped, but I was patient.