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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV

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duhmetreE said:
I'd keep Hayes. Re-sign him and trade him in 2-3 years if needed. You could compete with Zibs-Hayes-Howden down the middle.

The NYR are going to do everything they can to compete.
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Something to consider is that Hayes next contract is almost certainly going to have a movement clause.

So I'm not sure the concept of signing Hayes, just to trade him in a few years, is quite as easy as it sounds. That's probably one of the contributing factors to his current contract status.
 
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duhmetreE said:
I'd keep Hayes. Re-sign him and trade him in 2-3 years if needed. You could compete with Zibs-Hayes-Howden down the middle.

The NYR are going to do everything they can to compete.
Click to expand...

If your goal is just to compete, sure, you can roll with those players down the middle. If your goal is winning a Cup, I highly doubt it. Hopefully part of what management is looking to do is avoid the pitfalls of the last run, which was not enough high end talent. With the drafting of Chytil, Kravtsov and Miller, it would appear to be the focus. For all of the talk about Hayes, he’s on pace to put up 52 points. Look at the center position around the east - the Pens, Caps, TB, Leafs and Bruins are all much better than Zibanejad/Hayes. Hayes is the obvious player to move, as we are more than likely seeing the best of what he can be right now. If your center is one of the top centers in the league, you can compete for a Cup with Hayes as your 2C. I’d rather keep Zibanejad, since he has at least one more level of growth, and he’s already signed to a great contract for what he can produce. Keep the money gained from trading Hayes and put it towards re-signing Kreider and pursuing Panarin. Go draft one of the quality centers in the upcoming draft. Ride with Howden as your 2C while still building the roster. Keeping Hayes is fool’s good.
 
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ericmgomes said:
What do you mean for 'what purpose'? If you are satisfied with our D, then that's really sad. Our D is nothing special. The defensive prospects in the pipeline still have a *LONG* way to go. Our D pipeline needs to continue to grow. We can't just keep adding offensive assets without recouping the D.
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Building the defense is already far ahead of where the offense is. Look at what Gorton has done on defense as opposed to the forwards - DeAngelo, Pionk, Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, Miller, Lundkvist and Keane, as opposed to Andersson, Chytil, Howden and Kravtsov. The Rangers need at least another two high end forwards.
 
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Edge said:
Something to consider is that Hayes next contract is almost certainly going to have a movement clause.

So I'm not sure the concept of signing Hayes, just to trade him in a few years, is quite as easy as it sounds. That's probably one of the contributing factors to his current contract status.
Click to expand...
5 year deal. NMC in the last 2-3 years of the deal. Similar to Stepan?

jas said:
If your goal is just to compete, sure, you can roll with those players down the middle. If your goal is winning a Cup, I highly doubt it. Hopefully part of what management is looking to do is avoid the pitfalls of the last run, which was not enough high end talent. With the drafting of Chytil, Kravtsov and Miller, it would appear to be the focus. For all of the talk about Hayes, he’s on pace to put up 52 points. Look at the center position around the east - the Pens, Caps, TB, Leafs and Bruins are all much better than Zibanejad/Hayes. Hayes is the obvious player to move, as we are more than likely seeing the best of what he can be right now. If your center is one of the top centers in the league, you can compete for a Cup with Hayes as your 2C. I’d rather keep Zibanejad, since he has at least one more level of growth, and he’s already signed to a great contract for what he can produce. Keep the money gained from trading Hayes and put it towards re-signing Kreider and pursuing Panarin. Go draft one of the quality centers in the upcoming draft. Ride with Howden as your 2C while still building the roster. Keeping Hayes is fool’s good.
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There's no guarantee of getting a center; let alone one as good as Hayes. You do not need superstars like Crosby or Ovechkin to win; obviously it helps but we can win in a form or mold of LAK and BOS. Not making a 1:1 comparison but if you're team is deep enough, you can contend.

Also, what does Hayes return? what prospect and what pick? Is it really worth it? We've been loaded with picks and prospects the past years, why not hold off?
 
jas said:
Building the defense is already far ahead of where the offense is. Look at what Gorton has done on defense as opposed to the forwards - DeAngelo, Pionk, Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, Miller, Lundkvist and Keane, as opposed to Andersson, Chytil, Howden and Kravtsov. The Rangers need at least another two high end forwards.
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Funny, I actually see it as the opposite.

I think the forward group is significantly ahead of the defensive group.

It's hard for me to passionately debate the draft at this point for two primary reasons.

1. The Rangers currently sit in the middle of the league, but when you adjust for games played, you're essentially talking about as few as 1-2 points separating picking 3rd from picking 15th.

2. The Rangers still need significant depth at both forward and defense. I think going with a forward feels sexier, but I don't know if there's a clear cut need for forwards over defense.
 
Panarin Zibs Kravstov
Kreider Hayes Chytil
Names Howden Andersson

Skjei/ADA/Pionk/Hajek/Miller/Rykov/Lindgren/UFA signing?

Getting rid of Staal and Shattenkirk should be at the top of the list of 'things to-do'
 
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Edge said:
1. The Rangers currently sit in the middle of the league, but when you adjust for games played, you're essentially talking about as few as 1-2 points separating picking 3rd from picking 15th.
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Don't you agree though that after a TDL selloff of just a couple of guys we would be much closer to 3 then to 15? It would be similar to last year, where we were smack dab between 3 and 15 without the lottery jumping.
 
hayes is playing very well. hes motivated and getting top minutes and so far, hes been money. its a contract year for him.

i see more value moving him when hes playing well than keeping him because hes playing well. that 2nd contract will be expensive and will have a nmc attached.

maximize the return and deal from a position of strength (we are pretty strong up the middle right now).

i like the idea of using $$ saved with hayes and adding a difference maker piece like panarin.
 
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duhmetreE said:
5 year deal. NMC in the last 2-3 years of the deal. Similar to Stepan?



There's no guarantee of getting a center; let alone one as good as Hayes. You do not need superstars like Crosby or Ovechkin to win; obviously it helps but we can win in a form or mold of LAK and BOS. Not making a 1:1 comparison but if you're team is deep enough, you can contend.

Also, what does Hayes return? what prospect and what pick? Is it really worth it? We've been loaded with picks and prospects the past years, why not hold off?
Click to expand...

Because, as stated by the ‘letter’ the goal is rebuilding. And all reports suggest that more moves are coming. This team is so early in the process and so far from being complete. If they intended to sign Hayes long-term, it would have been done last summer. It’s still about getting as many assets as possible. And, again, even Boston and LA were much stronger at center than Zibanejad/Hayes.
 
Edge said:
I think the forward group is significantly ahead of the defensive group.
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Agreed. The potential of some of the forwards is,to me, far ahead of those of the defensemen in the system.
2. The Rangers still need significant depth at both forward and defense. I think going with a forward feels sexier, but I don't know if there's a clear cut need for forwards over defense.
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This is where it comes down to for me on this. I would LOVE to get Dach, Cozens et all. But in getting Byram, you are getting your #1 defensemen. And those are NOT easy to come by. Feels like it is harder to land that than it is a top line forward. Again, not saying that I would not draft the sexy pick, but it is far from a slam dunk.
 
jas said:
Because, as stated by the ‘letter’ the goal is rebuilding. And all reports suggest that more moves are coming. This team is so early in the process and so far from being complete. If they intended to sign Hayes long-term, it would have been done last summer. It’s still about getting as many assets as possible. And, again, even Boston and LA were much stronger at center than Zibanejad/Hayes.
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That's debatable.

If you were to compare the team of last year to this year, the retool has already happened. Obviously more player will be moved but the I feel a decent portion of the foundation is already here.
 
duhmetreE said:
Panarin Zibs Kravstov
Kreider Hayes Chytil
Names Howden Andersson

Skjei/ADA/Pionk/Hajek/Miller/Rykov/Lindgren/UFA signing?

Getting rid of Staal and Shattenkirk should be at the top of the list of 'things to-do'
Click to expand...
There is no issue with Shattenkirk staying around. You need veterans. His cap hit is nowhere near severe either.
 
hanks numbers don't look great but he is not slumping. he's playing REALLY well. that's how bad we probably are. when he actually does slump and he will he always does we probably come back to earth a bit for sure.
 
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jas said:
Because, as stated by the ‘letter’ the goal is rebuilding. And all reports suggest that more moves are coming. This team is so early in the process and so far from being complete. If they intended to sign Hayes long-term, it would have been done last summer. It’s still about getting as many assets as possible. And, again, even Boston and LA were much stronger at center than Zibanejad/Hayes.
Click to expand...
We went far into the playoffs with much worse IMO.
 
duhmetreE said:
Panarin Zibs Kravstov
Kreider Hayes Chytil
Names Howden Andersson

Skjei/ADA/Pionk/Hajek/Miller/Rykov/Lindgren/UFA signing?

Getting rid of Staal and Shattenkirk should be at the top of the list of 'things to-do'
Click to expand...
Forgot Buchnevich. And getting rid of Staal and Smith should be at the top of the list, not Shattenkirk.
 
I think RE: The whole Hayes Debate - I believe Lias will be the Hayes replacement. Watch us trade Hayes and Lias thrives in that spot. The kid is hungry.
 
Rongomania said:
I think RE: The whole Hayes Debate - I believe Lias will be the Hayes replacement. Watch us trade Hayes and Lias thrives in that spot. The kid is hungry.
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Maybe, but IDK if Lias has the offensive upside that Hayes does. And yes, I know Hayes has never hit 50 points, but a lot of that is because of usage and who he played with.
 
TheTakedown said:
That would sting, but for Nylander I can't say no...

I'd also be open to moving Buchnevich instead.
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I would absolutely say no. Krieder should not be included. He is doing what we have all hoped for. Taking steps forward, both with his play and his leadership. No one is untradeable, but I keep Kreider to be the leader on the other side of the rebuild.
 
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