Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think this is even worse than Kreider and Skjei. We don't know what Nylander is without the line that he plays on.



Not sure Carolina would do that but works for me.

This a bit overblown. They kid is an amazing talent. Hes put up back to back 61pt seasons and hes 22.

If the Rangers are looking to target a player like Nylander, now is the time to move Skjei. I have no issues moving Buch in this trade. His upside is no where near that of Nylander and has had major consistency issues.

Not sure what people would think would be a fair trade but if it you dont want to move one of the rangers top prospects it's something the Ranges would have to put on the table.

If any trade has Pionk or D'Angelo in it your not getting Nylander.

 

[Kovalev27]

People talking about nylander like he came out of nowhere to score just because of Matthews. Kid was an elite prospect since he got out of diapers. Dominant at every level. Doesn’t need Matthews to look good.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

if skjei and kreider are the asking from price from the leafs, then Jake Gardiner needs to be coming back to replace Skjei.

 

[Machinehead]

if skjei and kreider are the asking from price from the leafs, then Jake Gardiner needs to be coming back to replace Skjei.

If we're adding to Kreider, Morgan Rielly needs to be coming back to replace Skjei.

 

[Kovalev27]

They don’t need a lefty D man I don’t even know why people are still talking about Skjei

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Where is the $8mil coming from? His next contract is likely similar to Zibanejad contract or less, however that is 2 years away.

He's a legit top 6 forward. Undoubtedly worthy of First line.

Hypothetical.

All things considered, no doubt. Offensively, to date, he's had many runs like this but hasn't managed 30 gols or 60 points. No question he's top six player but not a premier one. Someone last spring argued he was the best US-born LW outside Patrick Kane... honestly, though, it's his squad now. Some players need that level of demand and boom, 30+.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

If we're adding to Kreider, Morgan Rielly needs to be coming back to replace Skjei.

dude cmon this is a fair trade for both teams. Skjei and Gardiner are pretty even, both are solid #3 guys, and Kreider and Nylander as of now are about even, but Nylander's potential is much higher. nylander can be a point per game guy in the future. What's Kreider's ceiling, 60 points?

 

[Lone Ranger]

I have no issue whatsoever trading Skjei for Nylander, but I am not going to 'throw in' Kreider

I may be exhibiting blatant irrational homerism, but I wouldn't trade Kreider straight up for Nylander.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

dude cmon this is a fair trade for both teams. Skjei and Gardiner are pretty even, both are solid #3 guys, and Kreider and Nylander as of now are about even, but Nylander's potential is much higher. nylander can be a point per game guy in the future. What's Kreider's ceiling, 60 points?

It may be, but are you willing to give up the assets plus an 8x8.5 contract in order to find that out?

 

[NYR Viper]

I may be exhibiting blatant irrational homerism, but I wouldn't trade Kreider straight up for Nylander.

Contract situations come into play here. If the Leafs are including Gardiner it’s because they’re afraid of his next deal. He’s a UFA at years end. He may play a similar role to Skjei but the values aren’t close to equal based on contractual situations.

 

[BBKers]

We are getting younger. Our average age is currently around 26.2 years (23 man roster including Buchnevich and McQuaid)

 

[haohmaru]

This a bit overblown. They kid is an amazing talent. Hes put up back to back 61pt seasons and hes 22.

If the Rangers are looking to target a player like Nylander, now is the time to move Skjei. I have no issues moving Buch in this trade. His upside is no where near that of Nylander and has had major consistency issues.

Not sure what people would think would be a fair trade but if it you dont want to move one of the rangers top prospects it's something the Ranges would have to put on the table.

If any trade has Pionk or D'Angelo in it your not getting Nylander.

Nothing "overblown" about it, whatever you mean by that. I'm not saying that Nylander won't be successful without his Maple Leaf line mates, I'm saying it's an unknown how successful he can be without them. Will he put up those points without Matthews, etc... ? He might. He might not. He's talented for sure but so is Kreider and they aren't similar players.

For me, Skjei and Kreider for Nylander is too much - if only for the fact it seems like Kreider is finally putting it all together and if he can be the guy that he's been this year with consistency in the future then I'd rather have him here than not.

 

[haohmaru]

People talking about nylander like he came out of nowhere to score just because of Matthews. Kid was an elite prospect since he got out of diapers. Dominant at every level. Doesn’t need Matthews to look good.

He might not need Matthews and my point wasn't that he can't be that player it's that we don't know what he'll be or not be without them. I like Nylander. Not sure I like what he's doing now (holding out and forcing the Leafs' hand) or what his contract will end up taking to sign him.

 

[Leetch3]

the nylander argument is pointless because we have nothing that toronto would want anyway. they need a RHD if we had a RHD good enough to get nylander back he'd be untouchable.

 

[NY Lito]

I do think Kreider+Skjei is too much. I don’t think trading Kreider is the move right now, from both a production and leadership standpoint.

However I have zero qualms with having Skjei as the centerpiece of a trade for a player be it Nylander or someone else. Not hating and I do think he is better than he’s shown this season but by no means do I think he’s untouchable or some cornerstone piece of our rebuild.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I do think Kreider+Skjei is too much. I don’t think trading Kreider is the move right now, from both a production and leadership standpoint.

However I have zero qualms with having Skjei as the centerpiece of a trade for a player be it Nylander or someone else. Not hating and I do think he is better than he’s shown this season but by no means do I think he’s untouchable or some cornerstone piece of our rebuild.

I'm not a big fan of the idea of trading away assets for someone who is clearly a mercenary. If Toronto was lowballing him, that would be one thing, but from everything I've read, they're offering him fair value.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I'm not a big fan of the idea of trading away assets for someone who is clearly a mercenary. If Toronto was lowballing him, that would be one thing, but from everything I've read, they're offering him fair value.

Well if he gets the mercenary label, then what does Dubas get if he trades Nylander for a defenseman? Pimp? Part of the hold up is Nylander doesn't want to sign a team friendly deal to just get traded while Tavares, Matthews and Marner get $10m+ each and a cup.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If the Rangers are looking to target a player like Nylander, now is the time to move Skjei. I have no issues moving Buch in this trade. His upside is no where near that of Nylander and has had major consistency issues.

Not that I disagree with you at all, but here’s some interesting food for thought:

Buchnevich career ppg: .55
Nylander w/o Matthews: .45

Pionk + Buchnevich for Nylander? Pretty sure Toronto would get more attractive offers though.

 

[kovazub94]

If the Rangers include in the trade any of their current young forward core than the incremental gain from losing them vs acquiring Nylander is not worth someone like Skjei. Like, any proposals where two pieces are Kreider or Buch + Skjei exceed the prize.

If Toronto is interested in Skjei (gambling that he will turn from top4 into a top pair defenseman) the Rangers should listen but the only add has to be a Zuke, Vesey or Namestnikov etc.

 

[BBKers]

Skjei plus Buchnevich would be as far as I would go. Would ask for a smaller add from TML as well. But they will get better offers more in line with their perceived needs. Be so certain

 

[Ola]

By interest, I don't mean "I'd take that guy on my team". I mean we actually would be willing to give up what it takes.

If we were willing to give up what it takes he would be here already, its not like a package of Kreids, Skjei, Lias and our 19' first wouldn't be enough. But I recon you don't mean that either!!

Seriously though, you of course pose the relevant question. I of course don't know. Would we do Chytil and Pionk? Lias and Skjei? Kreider and Skjei?

To put it like this, I am sure Gorton is sending a list to Toronto -- with hopes -- that it will be enough to get something done. But will it require Gorts to go all in and would be be willing in that case?

In the end I think its fairly likely that we never will know. Most hard negotiations need a deadline and that deadline is still two weeks away.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I do think Kreider+Skjei is too much. I don’t think trading Kreider is the move right now, from both a production and leadership standpoint.

However I have zero qualms with having Skjei as the centerpiece of a trade for a player be it Nylander or someone else. Not hating and I do think he is better than he’s shown this season but by no means do I think he’s untouchable or some cornerstone piece of our rebuild.

Something I want to bring up about Kreider. We talk about what he would look like McDavid or Tavares. Think about how he looked with Chytil last night or at times when Zibanejad is playing at his top level (like the game against the Pens late last year). Kreider playing next to an elite center would be sheer dominance. If someone wants him, it has to be an overwhelming package.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Our division is extremely tight right now, and the Rangers still have a ton of division games left. It's currently broken down as:

1. CBJ: 12-6-2 26 pts
2. NYI: 10-7-2 22 pts
3. NYR 10-8-2 22 pts
4. WSH- 9-7-3 21 pts
5. PHI 9-9-2 20 pts
6. CAR 8-8-3 19 pts
7. NJD 8-8-2 18 pts
8. PIT 7-8-3 17 pts

As happy as I am that the kids have been carrying us this year, our margin for error is still incredibly slim. I think the kids have shown us that we have a pretty solid framework in place, which gives us some flexibility in making deadline deals. I'm not going to speculate on returns, but I do see us moving Hayes, Zucc, and maybe someone a bit bigger. Center depth will be rough, but it'll be a great opportunity for one of Chytil or Lias to take the opportunity and run with it. Strome will provide good depth C insurance if one of them have to stay at W. Here's a rough guess at what I think we'll see:

Names-Zib-Buch
Kreider-Chytil/Lias-Chytil/Lias --> tough to project this one with no Hayes or Zucc. Fast would be an easy choice here, but I've liked him with Howden and Vesey. I also really like Chytil and Kreider together. Their speed pushes teams back gives them the choice of attacking laterally or north-south.
Vesey-Howden-Fast
x-Strome-x

 

[Ola]

People talking about nylander like he came out of nowhere to score just because of Matthews. Kid was an elite prospect since he got out of diapers. Dominant at every level. Doesn’t need Matthews to look good.

I posted about him in 2013:
C/W William Nylander - Modo, SHL (2014, 8th overall, Toronto)

William Nylander Altelius

I have seen alot of William Nylander Altelius (born in Calgary, son of Michael Nylander) after he made his debut in the All-Swedish League. This kid is just amazingly talented. He seems to become one of the most exciting prospects to come out of Sweden since the Sedin's.

William Nylander at eliteprospects.com

Some highlights with William Nylander, he is unbelivebly talented with the puck, but of course a bit on the small side:



His assist in his debut in the All-Swedish League (at around the 0:50 mark):
Artikelarkiv Hockeyallsvenskan - HockeyAllsvenskan

Another amazing goal by William yesterday (at around the 0:50 mark):
Artikelarkiv Hockeyallsvenskan - HockeyAllsvenskan

PPG player so far in the All-Swedish League (the second tier league). He is playing for the team that developed Anze Kopitar and Carl Hagelin.

At that level the following NHLers had the following output during the lockout.
Anze Kopitar 31 10 24 34
Matt Read 20 6 18 24
Carl Hagelin 8 5 6 11
Mark Letestu 7 4 0 4
Marcus Johansson 16 8 10 18
Gabriel Landeskog 17 6 8 14


He is still really young (not eligble until the 14' draft) and underdeveloped physically. He ought to be able to develop a ton physically. He looks like a kid out there on the ice before the puck is dropped (see the picture below), then he just puts on a show when the puck is dropped.

He is a great play maker, but unlike his dad he also has a really good right handed shot. You can tell that he is born and raised in NA. But his most special ability is definitely his skating. Man when he puts a move on on the ice, it looks like everyone else is skating in slow motion. All of a sudden he has skated a couple of laps in the attacking zone and everyone on the ice is just standing there turning their head trying to figure out what's going on. Its still very early, and no comparisions should be made in other areas, but I've not seen a kid that age skate like that since I saw Sid in his first WJC's. And William is on top of that a super slick stick handler.

I don't have much time to watch hockey nowadays, but when Södertälje is playing, or a has played a game, I find a way to watch them just to get to see this kid.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If we were willing to give up what it takes he would be here already, its not like a package of Kreids, Skjei, Lias and our 19' first wouldn't be enough. But I recon you don't mean that either!!

Seriously though, you of course pose the relevant question. I of course don't know. Would we do Chytil and Pionk? Lias and Skjei? Kreider and Skjei?

To put it like this, I am sure Gorton is sending a list to Toronto -- with hopes -- that it will be enough to get something done. But will it require Gorts to go all in and would be be willing in that case?

In the end I think its fairly likely that we never will know. Most hard negotiations need a deadline and that deadline is still two weeks away.

Please, no Chytil. Wouldn't want to part with Lias or Kreider either.