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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV

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I remember Stepan as a middle 6 player who can put up PP points on a bad team for touching the puck
 
duhmetreE said:
Hayes, this year, is better than Stepan IMO. I'd be more confident with Hayes going into the playoffs than Stepan.

IF ( i know, if's are terrible ) Hayes had the same PP1 time Stepan has had, he'd blow by him in statistical metrics

Can Hayes improve even further or even maintain this level? We'll see. Stepan has peaked/plateaued and could never take over a game like Hayes has shown.

Hayes dominates Even-Strength
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When Hayes has 5 years of mid 50 point seasons, and is the 1C on a stanley cup contender through it, and shuts down the other teams super stars while doing it, call me....
 
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Kevin Hayes had 17G at even-strength on a chinese fire drill AV team.

and what about this year? Which is the Hayes I'm comparing Stepan to.

I dont understand how someone can watch Hayes this year and still think Stepan is better. Stop romanticizing Stepan. He was a solid Torts center. Put up PP points by default.
 
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Here's the only thing I'll say about this Stepan/Hayes debate -- any team would be hard pressed to win a Stanley Cup with either one as your top centerman.
 
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True Blue said:
There is a LOOOOONNNNGGG way to go to be able to even get comfortable in making such projections. An done can certainly not bank on them any more than one can bank on drafting Hughes.
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Of course. None of that can pan out, in which case we'll be screwed and it won't matter what we do. Our future depends on at least one of those kids being a #1C, and one being at least an elite #3C. But you took my hypothetical out of context like I was saying it was a sure thing. It isn't. I simply gave a good-case scenario where we actually would have to trade Zibby AND Hayes. Even if we don't draft a stud #1C this year, all that really needs to happen is for Chytil to become the 1C, and Andersson/Howden develop into admirable 2C/3C combo over the next year and a half for Zibby to be on the block as well as Hayes. Given what we've seen from these kids on the ice so far, it's really not an unimaginable scenario.
 
KingDeathMetal said:
I simply gave a good-case scenario where we actually would have to trade Zibby AND Hayes. Even if we don't draft a stud #1C this year, all that really needs to happen is for Chytil to become the 1C, and Andersson/Howden develop into admirable 2C/3C combo over the next year and a half for Zibby to be on the block as well as Hayes. Given what we've seen from these kids on the ice so far, it's really not an unimaginable scenario.
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Zbad may well be that #1 center already. Him and Krieder could lock down the top line spots for a few years after the rebuild. That cannot be discounted.
 
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jas said:
Building the defense is already far ahead of where the offense is. Look at what Gorton has done on defense as opposed to the forwards - DeAngelo, Pionk, Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, Miller, Lundkvist and Keane, as opposed to Andersson, Chytil, Howden and Kravtsov. The Rangers need at least another two high end forwards.
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Yeah but we're talking about elite talent, right? There is a big delta between Chytl, Andersson and Kravstov versus Miller and company. The other D's you have mentioned, are pretty decent, but nothing to be over the moon about. The offensive assets we have added versus our D, in my eyes, are profoundly better.

We need to continue to draft high forward skill in the draft, but also understand that guys like Panarin and Kravstov (if they do play for us next year), are going to need a lot of playing time. Before you know it, we are going to have a plethora of talent on the offensive end after next year's draft. We will need to be mindful on the defensive end still. We still have a ways to go here.
 
Hayes and Zucc will need to be moved - it is quite obvious. Otherwise, there is no room for Panarin or Kravstov without that happening. But I'm speaking too soon, we are not guaranteed anything next year (Panarin signs elsewhere, Kravstov isn't ready).
 
ericmgomes said:
Yeah but we're talking about elite talent, right? There is a big delta between Chytl, Andersson and Kravstov versus Miller and company. The other D's you have mentioned, are pretty decent, but nothing to be over the moon about. The offensive assets we have added versus our D, in my eyes, are profoundly better.

We need to continue to draft high forward skill in the draft, but also understand that guys like Panarin and Kravstov (if they do play for us next year), are going to need a lot of playing time. Before you know it, we are going to have a plethora of talent on the offensive end after next year's draft. We will need to be mindful on the defensive end still. We still have a ways to go here.
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Just keep in mind this last draft was the D heavy one, or at least the experts thought so. We went heavily with D in it as well, so I think Gorton agreed. Next draft is said to be F and C heavy, so we may go that route. Not saying we can't find a gem of a D player, but I think we have some nice pieces in our charts already, they just need time to mature and continue to get better.
 
BringBackLibertys said:
@Bleed Ranger Blue All I am saying is Stepan was and IS a good center, 1B most of his career, and his is crapped on and criminally under rated on this forum. It's a shame really. I guess in 2 years McD will be the worst D we ever had as well?
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I liked Stepan, and for what it's worth, I thought he was a better player than Hayes -- lets not forget Hayes is blossoming on a team with nearly no expectations. Stepan was a guy that had to carry much of the defensive load (and some of the offense) on a Stanley Cup contender. It's apples and oranges when making a comparison.

That said, neither one is a guy I'd want to b saddled with into their 30's on a big salary and NMC protection. The Rangers did the right thing with Stepan, and I trust they'll do the same with Hayes.
 
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I could live with giving Hayes a 5 year deal, IF we are to keep him around, taking him age 31-32, and then moving on from him. By that time chytil/kravtsov/lias/howden will be 23-25 handling the load for this team and well seasoned to do so. Oh and add whomever we draft this year to that list as well.
 
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RGY said:
I could live with giving Hayes a 5 year deal, IF we are to keep him around, taking him age 31-32, and then moving on from him. By that time chytil/kravtsov/lias/howden will be 23-25 handling the load for this team and well seasoned to do so. Oh and add whomever we draft this year to that list as well.
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So you would rather pay Hayes about 6-6.5 then take that and add 2.5 and have Panarin? Because that is where the extra money will come from.
 
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RGY said:
I could live with giving Hayes a 5 year deal, IF we are to keep him around, taking him age 31-32, and then moving on from him. By that time chytil/kravtsov/lias/howden will be 23-25 handling the load for this team and well seasoned to do so. Oh and add whomever we draft this year to that list as well.
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I’d rather trade Hayes for a quality prospect and a 1st , and then put that money towards re-signing Kreider and bringing in Panarin.
 
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RGY said:
I could live with giving Hayes a 5 year deal, IF we are to keep him around, taking him age 31-32, and then moving on from him. By that time chytil/kravtsov/lias/howden will be 23-25 handling the load for this team and well seasoned to do so. Oh and add whomever we draft this year to that list as well.
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I think the challenge will be getting Andersson/Howden/Chytil to that point while still having Zibanejad and Hayes. We can get away with that now because we're talking about 19 and 20 year olds. But that would be increasingly more difficult a year or two out.

Doable for sure, but I don't know if I'd consider it ideal.
 
BringBackLibertys said:
I agree that he doesn't fit on this team anymore, but you realize he was just as good last year (on a much worse team) as he was in his last year with us right? I mean basically identical output. He is still a really good player.
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Stepan had the worst 5v5 production of his career last year. He just happened to get way more ice time than he ever had before. He was good on the PP though (as he always is despite the narrative being that he's bad because he slows it down)
 
jas said:
I’d rather trade Hayes for a quality prospect and a 1st , and then put that money towards re-signing Kreider and bringing in Panarin.
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I disagree with the premise that we can't have all 3. With the projected cap being from $81.4MM and $85.4MM next year.

Obviously it's easier to trade Hayes now, than to find ways to shed cap. Dropping 2 out of 3 of Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith will go a long way. With Pionk and ADA I don't see why Shatty should be here.

From 2020 on we will have an even more inflated cap due to the expansion and the new TV deal.

Kreider will get a $2-3M raise, a majority of that chunk will come from the change in the Girardi cap penalty.
 
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Stepan was a huge part of what made this team go, the team was awful the few times he was out for an extended period of time with an injury. He could be a streaky scorer, but so are 99% of players in the league
 
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