Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

[hotpaws]

Do you think it wasn't cup or bust previously or something?

i don't know , maybe winning a couple of rds would have saved them , now it seems like it's gone beyond that

Sometimes you gotta do the extreme to be extremely good for the post season.

yup the Leafs and east in general are digging in deep and swinging from the heels . lol

 

[JKG33]

Connor Timmins is our 8th or 9th defensemen. What I said is just straight up a fact. That doesn't mean things are going to go right for us...but this is the single deepest and most talented Leaf team in my life. I do not see an argument otherwise.

I don't disagree with you.

However that doesn't change the fact that this has been parroted non stop for the last few years, and every year the playoffs roll around and nothing changes.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

i don't know , maybe winning a couple of rds would have saved them , not it seems like it's gone beyond that

Eh f*** that I want to win the cup. Shit goes sideways in a bad way I am likely checking out for a rebuild anyways.

I don't disagree with you.

However that doesn't change the fact that this has been parroted non stop for the last few years, and every year the playoffs roll around and nothing changes.

Right which was my point. He has assembled the team. There are no excuses. They are deep everywhere. They have added toughness. Nobody can look at the GM and ask for more. If they don't get it done it is solely on the guys in that room. Though obviously Dubas will take the public fall for it at face value.

 

[Brobust]

I don't disagree with you.

However that doesn't change the fact that this has been parroted non stop for the last few years, and every year the playoffs roll around and nothing changes.

Every year is a fresh beginning.

 

[JKG33]

Eh f*** that I want to win the cup. Shit goes sideways in a bad way I am likely checking out for a rebuild anyways.


Right which was my point. He has assembled the team. There are no excuses. They are deep everywhere. They have added toughness. Nobody can look at the GM and ask for more. If they don't get it done it is solely on the guys in that room. Though obviously Dubas will take the public fall for it at face value.

The bolded is where we disagree. If the players fail again, yes it's on them. But who's put those players in that room? It's Dubas. That's his team. You can't separate the blame from the GM and players when the GM has been around this long and it's clearly his group.

Every year is a fresh beginning.

Whats the definition of insanity?

 

[Fonzieleaf]

i don't know , maybe winning a couple of rds would have saved them , not it seems like it's gone beyond that


yup the Leafs and east in general are digging in deep and swinging from the heels . lol

They sure are, this conference means business.

 

[Brobust]

The bolded is where we disagree. If the players fail again, yes it's on them. But who's put those players in that room? It's Dubas. That's his team. You can't separate the blame from the GM and players when the GM has been around this long and it's clearly his group.


Whats the definition of insanity?

Carrying past trauma over and dwelling on it.

 

[JKG33]

Carrying past trauma over and dwelling on it.

Doing the same thing repeatedly yet expecting different results

 

[Gary Nylund]

This thread was started today? Pretty cool timing!

Great job Dubas. GLG!!

 

[TMLegend]

Well, this debunks the theory that Dubas wouldn't trade futures to save his job. Cupboards are very likely to be barren over the next few years and he won't have to deal with it if they go out early this spring.

Value wise the McCabe trade is fine because he's signed. But it's also the kind of trade you hate to look back on a few years down the road if things don't work out. He probably ends up on the third pair here and Lafferty probably plays on the 4th line.

 

[Sypher04]

Murray had 2 bad starts in a row and then the team went with Sammy who went on a bit of a roll , hence why we said Murray lost the net and obviously why you won't post what happen after the 17th .

now be the unbiased person you like to portray and show the starts after the 17th

I didn’t actually realize he stopped playing before for his injury took him out, hence why I cut off at the 17th. No agenda, just an honest mistake whether you accept that or not.

I can see that Sammy played 5 games between the 18th and 28th, when Murray’s injury was revealed and all but one was very good.

It’s possible that Murray wasn’t playing because of the injury, but that’d be pure speculation, so not really giving that any play

 

[ACC1224]

Well, this debunks the theory that Dubas wouldn't trade futures to save his job. Cupboards are very likely to be barren over the next few years and he won't have to deal with it if they go out early this spring.

Value wise the McCabe trade is fine because he's signed. But it's also the kind of trade you hate to look back on a few years down the road if things don't work out. He probably ends up on the third pair here and Lafferty probably plays on the 4th line.

That's a pretty big reach. Do all GM's that have made trades so far do it to save their job?

I think the logical view is he made trades in hopes of winning a Cup.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Whats the definition of insanity?

the state of being seriously mentally ill

 

[TMLegend]

That's a pretty big reach. Do all GM's that have made trades so far do it to save their job?

I think the logical view is he made trades in hopes of winning a Cup.

It's both. Obviously he wants to win, but he it's also likely he knows he's gone if they don't win at minimum a series, maybe two.

 

[ACC1224]

It's both. Obviously he wants to win, but he it's also likely he knows he's gone if they don't win at minimum a series, maybe two.

So if he didn't think he'd be fired he wouldn't have made any of these trades?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Thank you for not understanding a proof.

Thank you for proving point #2 again. Please continue the personal attacks.

 

[TMLegend]

So if he didn't think he'd be fired he wouldn't have made any of these trades?

I don't believe he makes both trades if he knows he's secure. But obviously nobody knows, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[LeafGrief]

Who puts those players in place though? The group of nonchalant players who can't step up when it matters. That's my problem with Dubas. Up until the ROR trade (and maybe Muzzin) he's never really brought in a true killer. It's still largely a group of losers until they prove otherwise. No amount of regular season success changes that

It's not a group of nonchalant players that I'm talking about, it's our second best player, Marner, having the pressure get to him and completely wilting when we needed him the most. We didn't need true killers to get through MTL or CBJ, we needed our current talent to play good hockey. I have plenty to say about this group and why I agree they're a bunch of losers, but I don't blame the GM for looking at a 21 year old Mitch Marner and betting that he would be good enough to get it done.

This team has always been good enough to win, and that's what I expect a GM to do. Build a team and then it's up to the players and the coach to win the hockey games. Frankly, anyone who looks at the Leafs rosters over the last five years and argues they were never good enough to win, even accounting for their mental suckitude, is talking purely out of hindsight. The entire premise of the Leafs being so disappointing this era is that they were good enough to win. That's the GM's job, full stop. The rest is on the players, and I don't want a GM who's going to empty the cupboards every year to try and make the team perfect. This is hockey, not poker, and you don't get to lay all your cards down and win because you have the best team. We have a big4, those are the killers right there, and if they don't get it done, it's on them.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

1 year extension

 

[keonsbitterness]

One day contract and then he retires (one of the stupidest things in sports).

 

[ACC1224]

I don't believe he makes both trades if he knows he's secure. But obviously nobody knows, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm just trying to understand it.

This is what good teams do at the deadline, make moves to put them over the top.

 

[JKG33]

It's not a group of nonchalant players that I'm talking about, it's our second best player, Marner, having the pressure get to him and completely wilting when we needed him the most. We didn't need true killers to get through MTL or CBJ, we needed our current talent to play good hockey. I have plenty to say about this group and why I agree they're a bunch of losers, but I don't blame the GM for looking at a 21 year old Mitch Marner and betting that he would be good enough to get it done.

This team has always been good enough to win, and that's what I expect a GM to do. Build a team and then it's up to the players and the coach to win the hockey games. Frankly, anyone who looks at the Leafs rosters over the last five years and argues they were never good enough to win, even accounting for their mental suckitude, is talking purely out of hindsight. The entire premise of the Leafs being so disappointing this era is that they were good enough to win. That's the GM's job, full stop. The rest is on the players, and I don't want a GM who's going to empty the cupboards every year to try and make the team perfect. This is hockey, not poker, and you don't get to lay all your cards down and win because you have the best team. We have a big4, those are the killers right there, and if they don't get it done, it's on them.

If this core only had 2 failures under their belt that'd be one thing. But we're at what.. 6? I've lost count at this point. A competent GM should see that this core doesn't have what it takes by now.

This team is well past the point, it's a sunk cost now. Dubas keeps throwing assets at a group that's rotten. Sunk cost fallacy

 

[LeafGrief]

If this core only had 2 failures under their belt that'd be one thing. But we're at what.. 6? I've lost count at this point. A competent GM should see that this core doesn't have what it takes by now.

This team is well past the point, it's a sunk cost now. Dubas keeps throwing assets at a group that's rotten. Sunk cost fallacy

Ah yes, a competent GM would have traded away one or two of our u25 superstars by now. Peak HFboards post.

I mean, kudos for being willing to blame the players so much that the GM is guilty by association, but I ain't going to hold the GM to this kind of reasoning and I'd rather have someone who is willing to give talent the benefit of the doubt rather than being a reactionary.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If this core only had 2 failures under their belt that'd be one thing. But we're at what.. 6? I've lost count at this point. A competent GM should see that this core doesn't have what it takes by now.

This team is well past the point, it's a sunk cost now. Dubas keeps throwing assets at a group that's rotten. Sunk cost fallacy

Who would you have traded, where, and for what?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ah yes, a competent GM would have traded away one or two of our u25 superstars by now. Peak HFboards post.

I mean, kudos for being willing to blame the players so much that the GM is guilty by association, but I ain't going to hold the GM to this kind of reasoning and I'd rather have someone who is willing to give talent the benefit of the doubt rather than being a reactionary.

6 years and only one series that wasn't embrassing, isn't being reactionary.