Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

[hotpaws]

I agree completely, especially with the bolded. I've said it many times, using hindsight to judge trades is the cowards way out. Judge Dubas on how you think he did on the day of the trade, not years down the line. He can't tell the future any more than anyone else can, all he can do is make the best decision he can make with the information that he as at that moment in time. If you like the trade now, that's fine and if you don't, that's fine too. But saying years later that the trade was bad because we didn't win anything (like someone said about the Muzzin trade the other day) is complete BS.

I loved the Muzzin trade the day it happened and knowing that we'd be better off today had we kept the futures instead doesn't change my opinion one bit. Same goes for the trade today, IMO it was a fantastic move no matter what happens going forward.

I agree to a certain extent but these are win now trades , so you have to look at them in that way .

we don't make these trades in June so saying there great deals regardless of what happens in the playoffs shows your bias . the east playoffs look to be a bloodbath so it was mgmt's choice to empty the chamber and load up and if they're wrong on them for gutting our picks for the next 3 yrs

 

[Divine]

If he can't win this year, the process has been flawed. He's traded too much of the future for another 1st round exit. At the end of the day, it likely means something is fundamentally broken in the foundation of the team he built and invested in. You can blame the players all you want if they don't show up, but he's the one who gave pretty much everyone on this team their contract.


This team didn't capitalize vs Columbus or MTL. Yes, most years he's had tough pathes, but we've lost series we were heavy favorites to win to in recent memory.

He really didn't trade that much.

Jake McCabe is at 2M for 3.5 seasons (2 seasons after this on). Lafferty is signed under 1.2M for next season also. Neither of them are rentals.


They traded a 1st, 2nd, and third for RoR and Acciari & Josh Pillar. Both can be extended beyond this season also, just as Gio was.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I think he's already been extended in-house.

 

[Pi]

If he can't win this year, the process has been flawed. He's traded too much of the future for another 1st round exit. At the end of the day, it likely means something is fundamentally broken in the foundation of the team he built and invested in. You can blame the players all you want if they don't show up, but he's the one who gave pretty much everyone on this team their contract.


This team didn't capitalize vs Columbus or MTL. Yes, most years he's had tough pathes, but we've lost series we were heavy favorites to win to in recent memory.

I will continue to blame the players because they are the ones who play. Dubas has constructed a team that continually plays at an elite level.

Look at the results of other teams that win as much as the Leafs do in the regular season. They all go far in the playoffs. What we need is players like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares etc. to step up and prove why they're worth the money Dubas gave them.

It really comes down to that for me. Those players are all individually worth what they got and nickel and diming them to save a few million dollars would not have had a massive impact on their ability to win in the playoffs.

I know Dubas will get fired if the Leafs don't make it to round 2 but it's sad that he'll get hired by another smart team.

Knowing our luck, that team will win the cup.

 

[93LEAFS]

He really didn't trade that much.

Jake McCabe is at 2M for 3.5 seasons (2 seasons after this on). Lafferty is signed under 1.2M for next season also. Neither of them are rentals.


They traded a 1st, 2nd, and third for RoR and Acciari & Josh Pillar. Both can be extended beyond this season also, just as Gio was.

Look at the firsts we've given up in his tenure. One to dump Marleau, another for Foligno. It's the totality of what has happened over the past 5 years. The only team in the past 6 years that has probably picked in the 1st round less is Tampa.

 

[Polaris1010]

Extend.

Under Shanahan and Dubas, the Leafs have gone full circle.

Now they have built the team that Lou Lamerillo and Mike Babcock wanted.

The question is, why did they not do that from the get go?

How many cups or playoff rounds have the Leafs won?

Dubas traded away all those draft picks, because he knows he is done.

No draft picks is someone else's problem.

It is remarkable that someone like Dubas, is now more philosophically aligned with how Pat Quinn ran the team.

The organization is going in circles.

 

[93LEAFS]

I will continue to blame the players because they are the ones who play. Dubas has constructed a team that continually plays at an elite level.

Look at the results of other teams that win as much as the Leafs do in the regular season. They all go far in the playoffs. What we need is players like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares etc. to step up and prove why they're worth the money Dubas gave them.

It really comes down to that for me. Those players are all individually worth what they got and nickel and diming them to save a few million dollars would not have had a massive impact on their ability to win in the playoffs.

I know Dubas will get fired if the Leafs don't make it to round 2 but it's sad that he'll get hired by another smart team.

Knowing our luck, that team will win the cup.

I bet he's in career purgatory. Maybe someone picks him up as an AGM, but if we don't renew him team's likely aren't lining up to sign him. How many GM's who haven't won a playoff round while having all the financial advantages he does fall into a 2nd job immediately?

 

[Divine]

Look at the firsts we've given up in his tenure. One to dump Marleau, another for Foligno. It's the totality of what has happened over the past 5 years. The only team in the past 6 years that has probably picked in the 1st round less is Tampa.

Marleau wasn't even his fault, Lou signed him.

His choice was either keep Lou's signing at 6.25M and handicap the team, or trade him. It's not like he was the one who signed the guy. He shouldn't take the blame for clearing out someone else's signing. Would you prefer he kept 6.25M in dead cap that season?

Also, at the time of the trade, Foligno was considered a good trade. Many posters and media alike clamored that this was what the Leafs needed. The Leafs end up losing Tavares 10 mins into the series and still go to Game 7 against another team who goes to the SCF.

 

[Pi]

Under Shanahan and Dubas, the Leafs have gone full circle.

Now they have built the team that Lou Lamerillo and Mike Babcock wanted.

The question is, why did they not do that from the get go?

How many cups or playoff rounds have the Leafs won?

Dubas traded away all those draft picks, because he knows he is done.

No draft picks is someone else's problem.

It is remarkable that someone like Dubas, is now more philosophically aligned with how Pat Quinn ran the team.

The organization is going in circles.

Just because the Leafs trade to get a more physical 3rd/4th line and defenseman they're changing their philosophy?

The team still lives and dies with skill.

Look at the firsts we've given up in his tenure. One to dump Marleau, another for Foligno. It's the totality of what has happened over the past 5 years. The only team in the past 6 years that has probably picked in the 1st round less is Tampa.

Doesn't he more than make it up with additions like Bunting, Mikheyev etc for cheap?

How long would have to wait before a 1st round pick contributed like them?

 

[LeafEgo]

Regardless of how one feels about Dubas, the way to read today's trade is it's more than likely well be seeing Dubas get an extension this summer. Shanahan/the board isn't going to give the GM the ability to move futures like this if there's even a fair chance of them not being here.

The downside was protected pretty well for an all in trade deadline. It's just ROR/Acciari at risk but something had to give anyways with Bunting contract coming up - so some extra possibilities. On the McCabe trade we came out on top for the future.

Next year offers a lot of opportunity to change the look and feel of the team if that's the direction needed whether Dubas or someone else.

And then there's the upside and everybody's happy.

 

[93LEAFS]

Just because the Leafs trade to get a more physical 3rd/4th line and defenseman they're changing their philosophy?

The team still lives and dies with skill.



Doesn't he more than make it up with additions like Bunting, Mikheyev etc for cheap?

How long would have to wait before a 1st round pick contributed like them?

Then doesn't he make bad moves that somewhat cancel out what you described like signing Nick Ritchie who took assets to get rid of? And, we didn't trade a 1st round pick for either Mikheyev or Bunting, he could have done both.

Marleau wasn't even his fault, Lou signed him.

His choice was either keep Lou's signing at 6.25M and handicap the team, or trade him. It's not like he was the one who signed the guy. He shouldn't take the blame for clearing out someone else's signing. Would you prefer he kept 6.25M in dead cap that season?

Also, at the time of the trade, Foligno was considered a good trade. Many posters and media alike clamored that this was what the Leafs needed. The Leafs end up losing Tavares 10 mins into the series and still go to Game 7 against another team who goes to the SCF.

The barometer of rentals is if it worked, and improved the team. Not whether people on a message board like it or not. A lot of people liked Raycroft when we got him, that doesn't mean its a huge blunder on JFJ's resume. A ton of people like getting Kessel at the time never imagining we would be giving up a 2nd overall and another top 10 pick, that doesn't absolve Burke.

 

[Divine]

The barometer of rentals is if it worked, and improved the team. Not whether people on a message board like it or not. A lot of people liked Raycroft when we got him, that doesn't mean its a huge blunder on JFJ's resume. A ton of people like getting Kessel at the time never imagining we would be giving up a 2nd overall and another top 10 pick, that doesn't absolve Burke.

We have different views on that.

I think you can only judge a move when it's made. You can't look at revisionist history on every trade and assume someone else would have done it perfect.

He's signed Mikheyev/Kampf/Kase/Bunting/Gio. That probably offsets more than the value of all the picks he traded away.

Lots of the picks he traded away for assets stayed with the team also.

 

[LeafEgo]

I think he’s learned what it takes to win and has evolved into a good GM.

Seems that way for now. Not sure what to make of it all after four years but the playoffs are going to be exciting and Dubas doesn't feel like the problem it once was.

 

[koyvoo]

I think he’s learned what it takes to win and has evolved into a good GM.

He deserves credit for finally starting to figure it out.

Defending him and his vision today isn’t exactly the same as those who were defending the early, ridiculous version of what he thought a winner was. Before he learnt some.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'd happily extend him.

It's important to judge him on the last two year of his work as opposed to the first two years.

He's obviously developed and learned a ton. The past is the past and the mistakes that he made are learning points that he'll likely stick away from going forward

 

[HarrisonFord]

I think he's already been extended in-house.

Yeah it would be strange to allow him to make these two trades if you don’t expect him to stay around

 

[93LEAFS]

We have different views on that.

I think you can only judge a move when it's made. You can't look at revisionist history on every trade and assume someone else would have done it perfect.

He's signed Mikheyev/Kampf/Kase/Bunting/Gio. That probably offsets more than the value of all the picks he traded away.

Lots of the picks he traded away for assets stayed with the team also.

I post here out of boredom, and to kill time and a passion for the Leafs. He's paid millions of dollars, whether people here liked the move is really insignificant as a measurement of performance. The real measurement is did he did better than most GM's we would of considered employing at that time. At the end of the day you look at the totality of the resume, and are we further ahead than where we would be if someone else started managing the team in 2018-19? And, given the results, the talent he inherited, it's very debatable. We lost in the first round the 2 years prior to him being GM, and we've lost in the 1st round every year since he's become GM. Hopefully, he wins the cup and earns a massive extension and a great legacy, but I don't think the results if measured at this point in time really merit the praise he seems to get around here for not being one of the old boys club of NHL gms. If Lou or Hunter were are GM and did the exact same thing, a ton of people would be calling for their heads.

 

[hotpaws]

Just because the Leafs trade to get a more physical 3rd/4th line and defenseman they're changing their philosophy?

The team still lives and dies with skill.



Doesn't he more than make it up with additions like Bunting, Mikheyev etc for cheap?

How long would have to wait before a 1st round pick contributed like them?

ROR has skill and grit and plays in our top 6 and every team acquires skill , Dubas isn't alone in that .

so now you've gone back to the Burke draft/schamft era ? how'd that work out for us ?

 

[Peace Frog]

Dubas has certainly given his team the pieces to seriously compete for a Cup. Now it’s up to the players to go out there and do their part. If they don’t, that’s on them and the coaching staff.

 

[Nineteen67]

Seems that way for now. Not sure what to make of it all after four years but the playoffs are going to be exciting and Dubas doesn't feel like the problem it once was.

He made the mistakes with the cap early in his tenor, but I think he’s been actively trying to fix that. Give him credit for trying. It’s not his fault he was learning on the job.

 

[LeafSteel]

These moves have put the onus squarely on Keefe and the players.

Dubas will be extended. Any failure will start with Keefe paying the price, and then the players.

Dubas has done his job.

 

[kb]

So now the smart move was to trade away Marner for futures while bringing in an overpaid, declining RD with a huge anchor contract?

TBH only someone with zero hockey knowledge would ever think in a million years that is a great idea.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I post here out of boredom, and to kill time and a passion for the Leafs. He's paid million dollars, whether people here liked the move is really insignificant as a measurement of performance. The real measurement is did he did better than most GM's we would of considered employing at that time. At the end of the day you look at the totality of the resume, and are we further ahead than where we would be if someone else started managing the team in 2018-19? And, given the results, the talent he inherited, it's very debatable. We lost in the first round the 2 years prior to him being GM, and we've lost in the 1st round every year since he's become GM. Hopefully, he wins the cup and earns a massive extension and a great legacy, but I don't think the results if measured at this point in time really merit the praise he seems to get around here for not being one of the old boys club of NHL gms. If Lou or Hunter were are GM and did the exact same thing, a ton of people would be calling for their heads.

Well said. I'm glad Dubas has finally recognized the things many of us already knew (better late than never I guess) but IMO he has now provided Keefe with the tools to get it done.

Let's see if the "core 4" and Keefe get the message.

 

[ITM]

Extend him.

Here endeth the poll.

 

[Seras]

The guy has done an amazing job, but sure let's say they let him walk and replace him. Who replaces him?

Is that person obviously better than Dubas? If no then what are they even doing?