Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

[Gary Nylund]

I post here out of boredom, and to kill time and a passion for the Leafs. He's paid millions of dollars, whether people here liked the move is really insignificant as a measurement of performance. The real measurement is did he did better than most GM's we would of considered employing at that time. At the end of the day you look at the totality of the resume, and are we further ahead than where we would be if someone else started managing the team in 2018-19? And, given the results, the talent he inherited, it's very debatable. We lost in the first round the 2 years prior to him being GM, and we've lost in the 1st round every year since he's become GM. Hopefully, he wins the cup and earns a massive extension and a great legacy, but I don't think the results if measured at this point in time really merit the praise he seems to get around here for not being one of the old boys club of NHL gms. If Lou or Hunter were are GM and did the exact same thing, a ton of people would be calling for their heads.

I don't his body of work merits all the people crapping all over him either calling him dumbass etc. and that's been going on for years.

If you want to wait for the results, that's fine and that's what a lot of people are doing. I think that's OK if you're the guy hiring or firing him but as long as we're just chirping from the sidelines, I think it's fair to put ourselves in his place and assess what he's done without waiting and then judging him based on the results with the benefit of hindsight.

I don't GAF that he is or isn't one of the old boys club, I judge him on his body of work and overall I think it's been more good than bad and probably better than the body of work of any of our GM's over the last 50 years. And I'm not afraid to say so now, without waiting to see the results.

If the players fail again, they fail but this team's only question marks are the goaltending and whether or not the players can play up to their potential. The goaltending looks pretty good so far so I'll say Dubas has done his job and he's done it well, now it's up to the players to do theirs.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Not a big Dubas fan, but extend him. Would rather him see this through than have someone else come in now and completely change things up. Especially when Matthews, Marner and Nylander are all in their primes.

These all-in moves though remind me of AA with the Jays. Go for it, burning many picks along the way. If it works out, great. If not, he won't be around for it, so let the next person deal with it.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Other than Steve Yzerman, who isn't leaving Detroit to come here, I can’t think of any other GM in the league that would be an automatic candidate if we fired Dubas.

He’s made mistakes, for sure, but he’s learned from them, and built some of the best teams in many of our lifetimes. He can’t lace’em up and go play for the guys. He’s not taking over the bench for Keefe. It’s time that his work is paid back by the guys in the room.

 

[JKG33]

So now the smart move was to trade away Marner for futures while bringing in an overpaid, declining RD with a huge anchor contract?

TBH only someone with zero hockey knowledge would ever think in a million years that is a great idea.

That overpaid declining d-man has probably won more playoffs rounds than this team combined, and is neither overpaid nor really declining. He certainly would fit the contention window.

Yes, me and my 0 hockey knowledge. Meanwhile half this fanbase worships at the altar of a manager who's never won a single round. If I lack hockey knowledge, what does that say about you?

 

[TMLegend]

That overpaid declining d-man has probably won more playoffs rounds than this team combined, and is neither overpaid nor really declining. He certainly would fit the contention window.

Yes, me and my 0 hockey knowledge. Meanwhile half this fanbase worships at the altar of a manager who's never won a single round. If I lack hockey knowledge, what does that say about you?

Don't bother. It's that posters schtick. Constantly belittling anyone who doesn't kiss the ground Dubas walks on and coming off as an arrogant jackass in the process.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

That overpaid declining d-man has probably won more playoffs rounds than this team combined, and is neither overpaid nor really declining. He certainly would fit the contention window.

Yes, me and my 0 hockey knowledge. Meanwhile half this fanbase worships at the altar of a manager who's never won a single round. If I lack hockey knowledge, what does that say about you?

Well, considering that you believe the GM wins rounds, where does anyone begin?

 

[JKG33]

Well, considering that you believe the GM wins rounds, where does anyone begin?

GMs build teams that win rounds, but I'll assume you're smart enough to know that

 

[ErnieLeafs]

GMs build teams that win rounds, but I'll assume you're smart enough to know that

He’s been a part of building our most talented roster in my lifetime. Again, he’s not the one playing on the ice, nor is he behind the bench.

But you’re smart enough to acknowledge that…

 

[TMLegend]

Well, considering that you believe the GM wins rounds, where does anyone begin?

The GM is responsible for the team he assembles. He can't play, and yes you can lay blame on the players. But the GM shares an equal, if not bigger share of the blame if they continually come up short. Otherwise you could use your argument against every GM ever. "He's doing his best, it's not his fault the players don't win"

 

[hotpaws]

He’s been a part of building our most talented roster in my lifetime. Again, he’s not the one playing on the ice, nor is he behind the bench.

But you’re smart enough to acknowledge that…

''he's been a part''

I like how you put that , lol . Fact is Lou kicked him to the Marlies the second he took over and that's as per Dubas himself .

if you like what Dubas has done then it should be for what he's added to the team he inherited and not trying to act like he built the team he took over because what's he done is very underwhelming

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The GM is responsible for the team he assembles. He can't play, and yes you can lay blame on the players. But the GM shares an equal, if not bigger share of the blame if they continually come up short. Otherwise you could use your argument against every GM ever. "He's doing his best, it's not his fault the players don't win"

Sure, he shares responsibility, but again, he hasn’t done poorly building the team. The team, as he’s constructed it, is excellent. The pieces are there for a cup run. His loyalty to Keefe, imo, is his biggest fault, but it will be Keefe out the door if they fail again. Dubas probably does, and rightfully should, have an extension signed in-house already.

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't his body of work merits all the people crapping all over him either calling him dumbass etc. and that's been going on for years.

If you want to wait for the results, that's fine and that's what a lot of people are doing. I think that's OK if you're the guy hiring or firing him but as long as we're just chirping from the sidelines, I think it's fair to put ourselves in his place and assess what he's done without waiting and then judging him based on the results with the benefit of hindsight.

I don't GAF that he is or isn't one of the old boys club, I judge him on his body of work and overall I think it's been more good than bad and probably better than the body of work of any of our GM's over the last 50 years. And I'm not afraid to say so now, without waiting to see the results.

If the players fail again, they fail but this team's only question marks are the goaltending and whether or not the players can play up to their potential. The goaltending looks pretty good so far so I'll say Dubas has done his job and he's done it well, now it's up to the players to do theirs.

Cliff Fletcher and Pat Quinn both had better times as Leaf's GMs within the past 35 years. I'd also add, most of the success for Dubas was built under Lou with the Matthews and Marner picks, while inheriting Rielly, Kadri, and Nylander from Burke/Nonis. No other Leaf GM has walked into as good a position to start their tenure as Leaf's GM. He inherited a playoff team with 2 franchise players, and some other high-end pieces under 25 (Rielly, and Nylander).

Dubas has always been a divide around here and the boards in general. Some give him way more praise than he deserves, others will never give him the benefit of the doubt. It's like that with GM's or managment in general, but with Dubas it tends to be extreme, and often driven by some divide between fans who want to go all in on analytics and those who want a team of Wendel Clark's.

And, if the players fail again, I don't think Dubas has done his job. Look at Masai, he saw he was never gonna improve his team's ceiling with Derozan/Lowry as the foundation and shook things up and took a gamble for the ages. Pat Gillick traded Fred McGriff, and a beloved player in Tony Fernandez for Alomar and Carter, while also replacing a high-quality manager because the Jays couldn't take that next step. Both were rewarded for boldness, even while trying lynchpin's to the team by winning it all. He's a GM, he's in charge of the overall roster, if the players/coach can't do it, than that's on him at the end of the day. Outside of guys with NTC's (and the only guys on the team currently with NTC's are ones he's given in deals), he can adjust his chess pieces as he sees fit.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

''he's been a part''

I like how you put that , lol . Fact is Lou kicked him to the Marlies the second he took over and that's as per Dubas himself .

if you like what Dubas has done then it should be for what he's added to the team he inherited and not trying to act like he built the team he took over because what's he done is very underwhelming

I think he’s put together the best team we’ve had in nearly 20 years, and probably a top 3 team in the last 40. The deals he’s made at this deadline, alone, are great, and addressed nearly all of our needs. He’s made shrewd moves throughout his tenure.

Nothing I say will move you off of your position. You’re entitled to it.

 

[JKG33]

He’s been a part of building our most talented roster in my lifetime. Again, he’s not the one playing on the ice, nor is he behind the bench.

But you’re smart enough to acknowledge that…

Most talented roster in ___ amount of years. Where I have heard that one before? Oh right, last season, and the bubble season, and the covid shortened season.

At least we can agree the players are part of the problem. But what does that say about a GM who commits roughly 40% of the cap to 3 players who can't win shit? Why is he absolved of all blame when he's the one who identified them as core players and paid them as such? The players are rotten, but he picked them.

Why does Dubas get credited for regular season success (which is meaningless), yet get a free pass for the playoff failures? Please someone provide a competent answer to that question, I'm begging ya'll.

 

[horner]

I think he’s put together the best team we’ve had in nearly 20 years, and probably a top 3 team in the last 40. The deals he’s made at this deadline, alone, are great, and addressed nearly all of our needs. He’s made shrewd moves throughout his tenure.

Nothing I say will move you off of your position. You’re entitled to it.

He has finally learnt what we need for the playoffs.
Hope this is the new Dubas.

 

[hotpaws]

I think he’s put together the best team we’ve had in nearly 20 years, and probably a top 3 team in the last 40. The deals he’s made at this deadline, alone, are great, and addressed nearly all of our needs. He’s made shrewd moves throughout his tenure.

Nothing I say will move you off of your position. You’re entitled to it.

would you still say he built a top 3 team in the last 40 yrs if it didn't have Marner/Mathews/Nylander ?

Most talented roster in ___ amount of years. Where I have heard that one before? Oh right, last season, and the bubble season, and the covid shortened season.

At least we can agree the players are part of the problem. But what does that say about a GM who commits roughly 40% of the cap to 3 players who can't win shit? Why is he absolved of all blame when he's the one who identified them as core players and paid them as such? The players are rotten, but he picked them.

Why does Dubas get credited for regular season success (which is meaningless), yet get a free pass for the playoff failures? Please someone provide a competent answer to that question, I'm begging ya'll.

because they care about Dubas more than the team ?

just a guess

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Most talented roster in ___ amount of years. Where I have heard that one before? Oh right, last season, and the bubble season, and the covid shortened season.

At least we can agree the players are part of the problem. But what does that say about a GM who commits roughly 40% of the cap to 3 players who can't win shit? Why is he absolved of all blame when he's the one who identified them as core players and paid them as such? The players are rotten, but he picked them.

Why does Dubas get credited for regular season success (which is meaningless), yet get a free pass for the playoff failures? Please someone provide a competent answer to that question, I'm begging ya'll.

You’re attributing things you’ve heard somewhere else, from other posters, to me, for most of that rant. The teams he’s assembled have been really good for all of those years, yes. I said that, and I stand by it, because it’s objectively true.

Ovechkin/Backstrom/Carlsson were also guys who couldn’t win, until they did. So were MacKinnon an Co., and so is everyone else, until they do.

I’m certainly not here to absolve anyone of the weight of failure, but I’m also not here to heap it on in a hyperbolic way like some here are.

would you still say this built a top 3 team in the last 40 yrs if it didn't have Marner/Mathews/Nylander ?


because they care about Dubas more than the team ?

just a guess

Better to keep the idiocy in your head, than let us all see it on full display

 

[kb]

Extend him. He did everything to help.

As an aside, it's rather rich that posters who only shit on everything the Leafs (and the GM) do - say that I am the one who has a schtick.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Extend him. He did everything to help.

As an aside, it's rather rich that posters who only shit on everything the Leafs do - say that I have a schtick.

View attachment 658677

The irony of it all is astounding.

 

[Cleetus]

Extend him. He did everything to help.

As an aside, it's rather rich that posters who only shit on everything the Leafs (and the GM) do - say that I am the one who has a schtick.

View attachment 658677

how did you get an x ray of my brain! thats some impressive stuff right there KB lol, im not for or against with Dubas, I want to see the playoffs its my only concern, I think he brought the pieces in to do some Damage, just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride lol

 

[JKG33]

The irony of it all is astounding.

The irony of his and your posts certainly are, yes. That Homer gif is particularly fitting for him

 

[hotpaws]

Better to keep the idiocy in your head, than let us all see it on full display

the idiocy that should be kept in the head is your belief Dubas was responsible for adding Nylander/Mathews/Marner to justify your belief he was the person solely responsible for building this team

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The irony of his and your posts certainly are, yes. That Homer gif is particularly fitting for him

“I know you are but what am I!?!”

I expected no less from someone who could barely take the crayons out of his mouth to post on a message board

 

[TMLegend]

Extend him. He did everything to help.

As an aside, it's rather rich that posters who only shit on everything the Leafs (and the GM) do - say that I am the one who has a schtick.

View attachment 658677

Just can't help yourself eh? Well, thanks for proving my point. Many thanks!

 

[ErnieLeafs]

the idiocy that should be kept in the head is your belief Dubas was responsible for adding Nylander/Mathews/Marner to justify your belief he was the person solely responsible for building this team

I didn’t say he added those pieces. You’re really struggling. Maybe go outside and get some air. Calm down. Come back and lurk for awhile