Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

[JKG33]

Ah yes, a competent GM would have traded away one or two of our u25 superstars by now. Peak HFboards post.

I mean, kudos for being willing to blame the players so much that the GM is guilty by association, but I ain't going to hold the GM to this kind of reasoning and I'd rather have someone who is willing to give talent the benefit of the doubt rather than being a reactionary.

Guilty by association? He literally built the damn thing.

Who would you have traded, where, and for what?

For starters I would've traded Marner for whatever the best futures based return available was the year Pietrangelo was a UFA.

I'd have to do a deeper dive around what teams could've made something work, but I know Columbus was interested in Marner. Imagine a physical center like Dubois added to this lineup?

 

[ToneDog]

That's a pretty big reach. Do all GM's that have made trades so far do it to save their job?

I think the logical view is he made trades in hopes of winning a Cup.

My guess is management gave him (and Shanny) the mandate to win (possibly) at all cost and if he does not he is gone. Time will tell.

 

[ACC1224]

My guess is management gave him (and Shanny) the mandate to win (possibly) at all cost and if he does not he is gone. Time will tell.

I don't believe that at all.

 

[hotpaws]

My guess is management gave him (and Shanny) the mandate to win (possibly) at all cost and if he does not he is gone. Time will tell.

yup , that's the way it looks

might as well take the 1st/two 3rds/4th we have left in the next 3 drafts as well as any mid level prospect and go shopping for a goalie with Murray going back the other way as a dump

 

[ToneDog]

yup , that's the way it looks

might as well take the 1st/two 3rds/4th we have left in the next 3 drafts as well as any mid level prospect and go shopping for a goalie with Murray going back the other way as a dump

Yup and then lay off your scouting department.

 

[hotpaws]

Yup and then lay off your scouting department.

like !

 

[Skullz]

Extend for sure. He has made mistakes, but also has learned on the job. No one better that we could replace him with.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Unlike Dubas and Keefe, I think Shanny is secure.

 

[kk87]

Extend at all costs. Pay him whatever it takes.

Despite not seeing playoff success, Dubas has built a team that's deep, balanced, and competitive every year - and we've gotten better year over year throughout his tenure. He's made mistakes, but he has unquestionably left this team better off than when he started - and he's also rebuilt our minor league system from the ground up, despite not having a ton of picks to work with.

Look at the Oilers as a cautionary tale of how much an inept management group can cripple a talented core. Seems likely that any Dubas replacement would change up the script pretty significantly, and I'd be terrified as to where the new direction would take us. I don't like every Dubas move, but I have complete confidence in his ability to continue steering this team forward.

 

[hotpaws]

Extend at all costs. Pay him whatever it takes.

Despite not seeing playoff success, Dubas has built a team that's deep, balanced, and competitive every year - and we've gotten better year over year throughout his tenure. He's made mistakes, but he has unquestionably left this team better off than when he started - and he's also rebuilt our minor league system from the ground up, despite not having a ton of picks to work with.

Look at the Oilers as a cautionary tale of how much an inept management group can cripple a talented core. Seems likely that any Dubas replacement would change up the script pretty significantly, and I'd be terrified as to where the new direction would take us. I don't like every Dubas move, but I have complete confidence in his ability to continue steering this team forward.

why do we have to look at the Oilers ? why can't we look at the Canes or Devils ?

 

[LeafGrief]

6 years and only one series that wasn't embrassing, isn't being reactionary.

If you were embarrassed by either of Washington or Boston #1, that’s absolutely reactionary. I know exactly how embarrassing CBJ and MTL were and I have the post history to prove it. Including posts about trading Marner, which generally provoked massive disagreements from the majority of the fan base.

But this isn’t about whether the team are sucks are not, they are. This is about the GM and I can respect someone with vision and guts, and sometimes sticking to the plan is harder than blowing it up. I’d bet a million bucks that the exact same posters who hate him now would never have forgiven him for trading Marner either, so who cares.

 

[kk87]

why do we have to look at the Oilers ? why can't we look at the Canes or Devils ?

Definitely fair - I'm sure there are bright minds out there that could continue to push us in the right direction if Dubas walked. But those teams are managed with a similar philosophy as Dubas's, prioritizing skill and analytics over size and "old time hockey".

This is just a theory, but I feel like sans Dubas, the new management group would probably swing in the other direction, like some of the groups we've seen in the not-too-distant past. I could be offbase there, but I just don't see any better options out there. Who would you hire?

 

[Gary Nylund]

For starters I would've traded Marner for whatever the best futures based return available was the year Pietrangelo was a UFA.

I'd have to do a deeper dive around what teams could've made something work, but I know Columbus was interested in Marner. Imagine a physical center like Dubois added to this lineup?

-1
Trading him for the best offer, no way. Seeing what the market was for Marner and considering trading him is 100% fine, but I'd want to be damn sure I'm fine with the return before pulling the trigger on a trade for a talent like that.

If you were embarrassed by either of Washington or Boston #1, that’s absolutely reactionary. I know exactly how embarrassing CBJ and MTL were and I have the post history to prove it. Including posts about trading Marner, which generally provoked massive disagreements from the majority of the fan base.

But this isn’t about whether the team are sucks are not, they are. This is about the GM and I can respect someone with vision and guts, and sometimes sticking to the plan is harder than blowing it up. I’d bet a million bucks that the exact same posters who hate him now would never have forgiven him for trading Marner either, so who cares.

+1

Definitely fair - I'm sure there are bright minds out there that could continue to push us in the right direction if Dubas walked. But those teams are managed with a similar philosophy as Dubas's, prioritizing skill and analytics over size and "old time hockey".

This is just a theory, but I feel like sans Dubas, the new management group would probably swing in the other direction, like some of the groups we've seen in the not-too-distant past. I could be offbase there, but I just don't see any better options out there. Who would you hire?

+1

 

[ShaneFalco]

Extend for sure. He has made mistakes, but also has learned on the job. No one better that we could replace him with.

I odn't know how anyone outside the hockey world can say that. We have no idea who is out there, or could be

 

[hotpaws]

Definitely fair - I'm sure there are bright minds out there that could continue to push us in the right direction if Dubas walked. But those teams are managed with a similar philosophy as Dubas's, prioritizing skill and analytics over size and "old time hockey".

This is just a theory, but I feel like sans Dubas, the new management group would probably swing in the other direction, like some of the groups we've seen in the not-too-distant past. I could be offbase there, but I just don't see any better options out there. Who would you hire?

Dubas just added a few gritty players with ROR also being skilled , i'd like whoever runs the team to understand you have to have a balance if you can't find gritty skilled players and that there's a huge difference between a prospect like Nylander compared to a Malgin .

and what i mean by that is if you have enough talent it can compensate for your lack of grit/toughness but prospects like Malgin who aren't talented enough will fail

they'll be a long list of quality candidates to choose from if Dubie doesn't return . the only problem he'll have is Dubie sold off a huge part of our potential future the next 3 yrs

 

[JKG33]

-1
Trading him for the best offer, no way. Seeing what the market was for Marner and considering trading him is 100% fine, but I'd want to be damn sure I'm fine with the return before pulling the trigger on a trade for a talent like that.

My point was to clear out his cap space and use it for Pietrangelo, a true #1 D, while stocking the cupboards in the process.

 

[Tak7]

I said extend him prior to the deadline deals, which have only further pushed me into the direction that he should be kept.

It's not just that he's a smart operator who has done everything in his power to help this team, but he's also reflective, learns from his mistakes, knows how to pivot away from something that hasn't worked instead of stubbornly trying to keep at it,

He also seems like a genuinely good guy that people really like to be around, who treats people the right way. We know that's not the case in every market or front office. That does count for something tangible.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I have long been a huge Dubas supporter. My opinions have him have not changed 1 bit with these most recent acquisitions. I have always had full confidence in him as our GM. Sure he's made some mistakes, but what the good has far exceeded the bad for as long as he has been in charge.

I just hope this run of public support for him remains that way should we stumble once again in the playoffs. We are guaranteed to play a giant in R1, and even if we do somehow make it through TB, we are more then likely going to face BOS in R2. We still have a massive uphill climb to get to the ultimate prize, but one thing for certain is our GM put us in the right spot to at least give it an honest go.

This man needs to be extended. He's done more then enough to warrant one

 

[Gary Nylund]

My point was to clear out his cap space and use it for Pietrangelo, a true #1 D, while stocking the cupboards in the process.

I get that, and the idea is interesting but I still wouldn't do it without the return being amazing. Pietrangelo is a great Dman but he's not that young anymore for one things so it remains to be seen how well that contract will look a couple of years from now. There's also no guarantee whatsoever that he would sign with us so there's that as well.

 

[LeafEgo]

You can say a lot about Dubas but I find it hard to fault either of these trades. Hes dramaitcally overhauled this roster in the past two weeks and made it considerably better, while keeping Knies.

I do say a lot about Dubas (almost all bad) but I don't think there is a GM out there that could have done a better job at this trade deadline.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think he’s learned what it takes to win and has evolved into a good GM.

 

[Pi]

Extend.

You never want a myopic view that is just based on results.

This is a results based league but you only get results if you follow the process.

The question I'd ask Shanahan/MLSE is:

A) Are you happy with the way the team is constructed and think it can win a Cup?

If the answer is yes, even another (as painful as it would be) first round exit shouldn't make a difference because Dubas did his job.

If the answer is no, then yeah, fire him and replace him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have long been a huge Dubas supporter. My opinions have him have not changed 1 bit with these most recent acquisitions. I have always had full confidence in him as our GM. Sure he's made some mistakes, but what the good has far exceeded the bad for as long as he has been in charge.

I just hope this run of public support for him remains that way should we stumble once again in the playoffs. We are guaranteed to play a giant in R1, and even if we do somehow make it through TB, we are more then likely going to face BOS in R2. We still have a massive uphill climb to get to the ultimate prize, but one thing for certain is our GM put us in the right spot to at least give it an honest go.

This man needs to be extended. He's done more then enough to warrant one

I agree completely, especially with the bolded. I've said it many times, using hindsight to judge trades is the cowards way out. Judge Dubas on how you think he did on the day of the trade, not years down the line. He can't tell the future any more than anyone else can, all he can do is make the best decision he can make with the information that he as at that moment in time. If you like the trade now, that's fine and if you don't, that's fine too. But saying years later that the trade was bad because we didn't win anything (like someone said about the Muzzin trade the other day) is complete BS.

I loved the Muzzin trade the day it happened and knowing that we'd be better off today had we kept the futures instead doesn't change my opinion one bit. Same goes for the trade today, IMO it was a fantastic move no matter what happens going forward.

 

[Future]

I have no idea why he hasn't been extended. Is he the best GM in the NHL? Maybe not. Is he a damn good one compared to what's out there? Certainly.

Hurts my heart to know that a group of 70-year-old board members that don't understand a lick about hockey are going to sit around and discuss his future heading into next year. Especially if we lose to a juggernaut like Tampa or Boston in the first couple of rounds.

 

[93LEAFS]

Extend.

You never want a myopic view that is just based on results.

This is a results based league but you only get results if you follow the process.

The question I'd ask Shanahan/MLSE is:

A) Are you happy with the way the team is constructed and think it can win a Cup?

If the answer is yes, even another (as painful as it would be) first round exit shouldn't make a difference because Dubas did his job.

If the answer is no, then yeah, fire him and replace him.

If he can't win this year, the process has been flawed. He's traded too much of the future for another 1st round exit. At the end of the day, it likely means something is fundamentally broken in the foundation of the team he built and invested in. You can blame the players all you want if they don't show up, but he's the one who gave pretty much everyone on this team their contract.

I have no idea why he hasn't been extended. Is he the best GM in the NHL? Maybe not. Is he a damn good one compared to what's out there? Certainly.

Hurts my heart to know that a group of 70-year-old board members that don't understand a lick about hockey are going to sit around and discuss his future heading into next year. Especially if we lose to a juggernaut like Tampa or Boston in the first couple of rounds.

This team didn't capitalize vs Columbus or MTL. Yes, most years he's had tough pathes, but we've lost series we were heavy favorites to win to in recent memory.