Ovechkin passes Crosby for 17th all-time in points

Midnight Judges

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Feb 10, 2010
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oh yeah steckel definitely didn't see crosby the whole way there and put his shoulder right into his head lmao what a joke

I provided the gif because I thought some folks wouldn't watch the video.

I really don't know what is going through your mind here. Crosby turns abruptly - approximately 90 degrees - right into the guy. The gif is slow motion. Maybe you are thinking that's actual speed and so Steckel should have jumped out of Sid's way?
 

BehindTheTimes

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It's actually 272.

Ovie has 810.

Sid has 538.
Yeah but if Crosby didn’t play 160 less games then it would be about 200, I gave Crosby two 35 goal seasons over those 160 games bc assuming he was healthy and he’s still 200 goals behind. Ovy has clearly surpassed Crosby in legacy. If he beats Gretzky’s goal scoring record then Sid doesn’t have a leg to stand on
.
 

george14

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Yeah but if Crosby didn’t play 160 less games then it would be about 200, I gave Crosby two 35 goal seasons over those 160 games bc assuming he was healthy and he’s still 200 goals behind. Ovy has clearly surpassed Crosby in legacy. If he beats Gretzky’s goal scoring record then Sid doesn’t have a leg to stand on
.
Washington fans, Russians, and Crosby haters agree with you. Everyone else (90%+ of the hockey world) does not.
 

Frosty415

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Yeah but if Crosby didn’t play 160 less games then it would be about 200, I gave Crosby two 35 goal seasons over those 160 games bc assuming he was healthy and he’s still 200 goals behind. Ovy has clearly surpassed Crosby in legacy. If he beats Gretzky’s goal scoring record then Sid doesn’t have a leg to stand on
.
No. it doesn't work that way.

Longevity is a stat, there is no "what if"

OV and his 800+ goals crushes Crosby, and it's not even close.
 

gtrower

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Washington fans, Russians, and Crosby haters agree with you. Everyone else (90%+ of the hockey world) does not.

I mean we can all argue til they’re both long retired about pace, primaries, trophies, cups, overall player, etc. But in terms of legacy? Come on. Stick to the realistic arguments.

Also there’s literally a thread for this exact topic already. Let this thread be the beautiful weekly bump it was intended to be.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Washington fans, Russians, and Crosby haters agree with you. Everyone else (90%+ of the hockey world) does not.
History will play favourably to the player with 900 goals. It won’t be close in 20 years.

No. it doesn't work that way.

Longevity is a stat, there is no "what if"

OV and his 800+ goals crushes Crosby, and it's not even close.
I think you misunderstood what I said. For the record, I agree with you. I’m saying in an absolute best case scenario for Sid, Ovy is still 200 goals ahead.

It’s ground that can’t be made up with playmaking and a better 2 way game. Ovy is on the verge of breaking Wayne’s all time goal
Record. 10-15 years ago most ppl thought this would be impossible in their lifetime. I think ppl underestimate how big of an achievement that is. Nothing Crosby has done will have come close.

Too bad for the Canadian fans and the Canadian hockey media that have been pumping him since he joined the league, but this is the reality of the situation.
 
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Dessloch

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Yeah but if Crosby didn’t play 160 less games then it would be about 200, I gave Crosby two 35 goal seasons over those 160 games bc assuming he was healthy and he’s still 200 goals behind. Ovy has clearly surpassed Crosby in legacy. If he beats Gretzky’s goal scoring record then Sid doesn’t have a leg to stand on
.

Lol. All Crosbys missed games was in his absolute prime like when he had 32 goals in 41 games in 2010-11 before he got injured by Steckel.

If you had any credibility whatsoever before this post, you lost it all by stating prime time Crosby would have no more than 70 goals in 2 full seasons. It just showed your massive bias. Would have been more fair to give him 50 per season if you wanted to come across as somewhat fair.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Lol. All Crosbys missed games was in his absolute prime like when he had 32 goals in 41 games in 2010-11 before he got injured by Steckel.

If you had any credibility whatsoever before this post, you lost it all by stating prime time Crosby would have no more than 70 goals in 2 full seasons. It just showed your massive bias. Would have been more fair to give him 50 per season if you wanted to come across as somewhat fair.
Lol. You’re out of your depths in this conversation. Crosby has 1 50 goal season his entire career and you think to be fair we need to give him 2 pro-rated 50 goal seasons and then you have the nerve to call me bias. Well, if I’m bias, you’re clueless.
 
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BeastoftheEast85

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To me, this sounds like a typical Ovi fan/Sid hater argument that is rooted in emotion. Bobby Orr had a hell of a career that gets elevated because of injuries, same with Bossy. This isn’t some Sid-exclusive argument that only he benefits. He could very well retire with 2 separate HOF careers, and that’s with missing time that affected awards/production over the course of 4 seasons. He essentially has all of the individual + team awards already, multiple times over.
To me it’s exactly elevating people’s career because of injuries and what ifs, rooted in fantasy. No one is saying Crosby is not one of the best players of all time with a HHOF career+ regardless of injuries. But many are saying Crosby is head and shoulders above Ovechkin - who has an arguably more impressive trophy case and stats - using hypothetical production to fill in the gap.

It’s the same argument - just to much lessor extent - people make Lemieux is greater than Gretzky because of his amazing stretches and hypothetically there is a possibility if he was a durable as (or played as many games as) Gretzky (who also had his share of injuries), he could have been better. Or that Bossy is the greatest scorer of all time by imaginarily lengthening his shortened career by unrealistically assuming he wouldn’t have dropped off, like almost all other players who actually had longer careers.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe

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History will play favourably to the player with 900 goals. It won’t be close in 20 years.


I think you misunderstood what I said. For the record, I agree with you. I’m saying in an absolute best case scenario for Sid, Ovy is still 200 goals ahead.

It’s ground that can’t be made up with playmaking and a better 2 way game. Ovy is on the verge of breaking Wayne’s all time goal
Record. 10-15 years ago most ppl thought this would be impossible in their lifetime. I think ppl underestimate how big of an achievement that is. Nothing Crosby has done will have come close.

Too bad for the Canadian fans and the Canadian hockey media that have been pumping him since he joined the league, but this is the reality of the situation.
Highly doubt Crosby cares about this. Dude has won everything there is to win since he started playing hockey.

Winners win and losers lose.
 

george14

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History will play favourably to the player with 900 goals. It won’t be close in 20 years.


I think you misunderstood what I said. For the record, I agree with you. I’m saying in an absolute best case scenario for Sid, Ovy is still 200 goals ahead.

It’s ground that can’t be made up with playmaking and a better 2 way game. Ovy is on the verge of breaking Wayne’s all time goal
Record. 10-15 years ago most ppl thought this would be impossible in their lifetime. I think ppl underestimate how big of an achievement that is. Nothing Crosby has done will have come close.

Too bad for the Canadian fans and the Canadian hockey media that have been pumping him since he joined the league, but this is the reality of the situation.
No point in responding to your arguments. “It wont be close” is a ridiculous statement. Take a gander at the NHLPA polls and see who the players think is better.
 
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BehindTheTimes

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No point in responding to your arguments. “It wont be close” is a ridiculous statement. Take a gander at the NHLPA polls and see who the players think is better.
Doesn’t matter what polls say. The numbers speak for themselves.

No point in responding to your arguments. “It wont be close” is a ridiculous statement. Take a gander at the NHLPA polls and see who the players think is better.
If there was a downvote button this post would be worthy.
 

george14

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To me it’s exactly elevating people’s career because of injuries and what ifs, rooted in fantasy. No one is saying Crosby is not one of the best players of all time with a HHOF career+ regardless of injuries. But many are saying Crosby is head and shoulders above Ovechkin - who has an arguably more impressive trophy case and stats - using hypothetical production to fill in the gap.

It’s the same argument - just to much lessor extent - people make Lemieux is greater than Gretzky because of his amazing stretches and hypothetically there is a possibility if he was a durable as (or played as many games as) Gretzky (who also had his share of injuries), he could have been better. Or that Bossy is the greatest scorer of all time by imaginarily lengthening his shortened career by unrealistically assuming he wouldn’t have dropped off, like almost all other players who actually had longer careers.
Very reasonable post and good points. The way I view it is simple; Crosby is vastly better defensively, has the same offensive production is much less time, with much more team success. Ovi has 1 more MVP while Sid has 1 more Smythe, same amount of Lindsay’s. Ovi obviously has the Rocket’s. Crosby certainly would have won MVP in 2013 but missed 25% of the season and still finished 2nd (razor close). Yes they are hypotheticals but hypotheticals mean something when you are crunching numbers. 501 goals in 1,000 games is not more impressive than 500 goals in 700 games.

He wins in every category really. No question Ovi is the better scorer, but Crosby is the better player to me with the better career. He’s also younger so could very well player longer to pad his stats.

I’m not saying my opinion is perfect. I just don’t buy the simple “goals >>” argument. It’s a short-sighted argument that would put guys like Hull and Gartner ahead of Yzerman, Sakic, Mario, etc. After all, they scored more goals thus everything else is hypothetical and they were better goal scorers than anyone below them.
 

nowhereman

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It's amazing to see some fans so blinded by goals. It is only one aspect of generating offense and the notion that assists are "compiled" is absurd, especially when they are done so consistently over a career-long sample size.

Those thinking OV's legacy will dwarf Crosby's "because goals" need to look at Beliveau. His all-around game, winning pedigree, and surprisingly similar personal career to Crosby has seen him often ranked the 5th best player of all time, even though he doesn't lead any major statistical categories. 25 years from now, casuals may be wowed by OV's goal totals enough to scoff at Sid's legacy but anyone with the desire to dig beyond the surface will see who the superior overall player was.

And I can't help but get a good chuckle every time I see someone shrug off Crosby's missed games. You know you're fooling yourself.

To me it’s exactly elevating people’s career because of injuries and what ifs, rooted in fantasy. No one is saying Crosby is not one of the best players of all time with a HHOF career+ regardless of injuries. But many are saying Crosby is head and shoulders above Ovechkin - who has an arguably more impressive trophy case and stats - using hypothetical production to fill in the gap.

It’s the same argument - just to much lessor extent - people make Lemieux is greater than Gretzky because of his amazing stretches and hypothetically there is a possibility if he was a durable as (or played as many games as) Gretzky (who also had his share of injuries), he could have been better. Or that Bossy is the greatest scorer of all time by imaginarily lengthening his shortened career by unrealistically assuming he wouldn’t have dropped off, like almost all other players who actually had longer careers.
Nope, very different scenario.

When people try to prop up Lemieux against Gretzky, there are far more hypothetical assumptions that have to be made. With Crosby and Ovechkin, it is a very different scenario. They have roughly the same amount of points and a similar amount of major awards but Crosby has played two seasons worth of games less. And, yet, I have seen people here try to argue that they are offensively equal and any suggestion that Crosby would have pulled ahead considerably, had he played those missed games during his prime/peak, is not fair. Sorry but that's just playing dumb.

People make assumptions about points, awards, Cups, etc. to put Lemieux up on the same level at Gretzky, given all of the games he missed. But, despite all of his injuries, Sid is pretty much OV's equal.

I understand Crosby shouldn't get credit for games he didn't play or awards he didn't win, which is why you can only use so much guesswork to prop up his historical "greatness". But when their careers are so close but one player needed much less time to do it, you can use that to judge who was the better individual talent.
 
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yada

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Yeah but if Crosby didn’t play 160 less games then it would be about 200, I gave Crosby two 35 goal seasons over those 160 games bc assuming he was healthy and he’s still 200 goals behind. Ovy has clearly surpassed Crosby in legacy. If he beats Gretzky’s goal scoring record then Sid doesn’t have a leg to stand on
.

6-1 in major wins (3 cups + 3 international wins) favors crosby by a big margin. Im pretty sure the biggest goal scored by either player was an OT winner in the biggest international tournament. 2 conn smythes also will resonate pretty strongly.
 
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gtrower

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6-1 in major wins (3 cups + 3 international wins) favors crosby by a big margin. Im pretty sure the biggest goal scored by either player was an OT winner in the biggest international tournament. 2 conn smythes also will resonate pretty strongly.

There’s already a thread for this.


The 2 Smythes are the crown jewel of the legacy resume for Crosby. Nobody will remember or care how strong/weak they were in 20-30 years. But problem is that 4 other guys have also done that.

Barring something crazy, Ovi’s crown jewel will be 895. Nobody will remember or care in 20-30 years how defensively-focused the all time leading goal scorer was. Gretzky has already said he wants to follow the team around when he gets close. The money shot of 8 + 97 celebrating 895 together just dwarfs anything Crosby has to offer.

And that’s before accounting for things like individual trophy case gap, all time records gap, media/personality/marketability, McDavid eating into Crosby’s legacy, etc.
 
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SwedishFire

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Dude just stop!!!
Well hes right. He skated into a player

Watch the video and feel free to articulate which part of what I said was wrong. Sid runs right into Steckel while turning abruptly and not looking where he was going, with his head down. The collision was Crosby's fault. I get that you guys love him and all, but blaming David Steckel is not equitable.

View attachment 638986

There are lots of great arguments in Sidney Crosby's favor. Slandering David Steckel need not be among them. Steckel was an honest player who answered the bell more than his fair share. This was not a "cheap shot." It was an unfortunate incident.
I remember Crosby had a huge hit from Hedman just previous games. Ir Im I wrong, was it on his return?
 
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WiLBoY

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Ovechkin has more goals yet a lot are empty net goals and teammates constantly feeding him while he stands there.

The other is a hard grinder and makes plays for the team.

Both are talented. You can argue goals, one has more cups.
 

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