Ovechkin passes Crosby for 17th all-time in points

[norrisnick]

Conn Smythe Trophy​

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[TH]Season[/TH]
[TH]Team[/TH]
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[TR]
[TD]2015-2016[/TD]
[TD]Pittsburgh Penguins[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]2016-2017[/TD]
[TD]Pittsburgh Penguins[/TD]
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RIP Phil and Geno

 

[Candyman]

Such disrespect by Teemu to stop at 1457.

I love that this reference is more than 10 years old and still hilarious.

 

[Sky04]

I love Ovi as much as anyone, but let’s not go there lol. They’re gonna pass each other regularly, depending on who’s on a scoring streak.

Sid has played 160 ish fewer games too, this side of the argument is not in Ovi’s favor

/thread

 

[SeanConn]

The fact their career totals are that close this many years later, and both are top 15 players in the current NHL is just testament to how amazing these two talents have been.

Crosby the best playmaker and all around offensive weapon since Gretzky… Ovechkin— the greatest goal scorer of all time.

I hope they retire the same season and the competition for who ends with more career points goes right down to the wire.

 

[Shrimper]

Just like that Crosby is back in front. That's how pointless this thread is

 

[FinProspects]

I love that this reference is more than 10 years old and still hilarious.

Where is the original thread - I cant find it!

 

[Bowski]

LOL, this wasn't locked?

Well, one thing both sides can agree on is that Teemu Selanne can fire that rifle up his 18th place a$$!

 

[Video Nasty]

Mikita coming up for both then likely crossing the 1500 point barrier as just the 15th and 16th members before the season closes.

It’s very possible that with healthy seasons, both vault past Coffey, Recchi, Thornton, Bourque, and Esposito to become the 10th and 11th members of the 1600 point club by the end of next season.

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

...He's played 160 less games. He'd be ~200 points ahead of they had the similar games played.

Ovy had had half season where he matched Sid’s best production levels and dropped off. If Sid was more durable and played more full seasons he may have dropped off too. And I don’t see an argument to give the benefit of the doubt to missing games over someone who actually played those games. Certainly Sid hypothetically would end up with more points if he was more durable - which makes sense as he is a playmaker - but I wouldnt give much credit or put much stock in this.

 

[Randyne]

...He's played 160 less games. He'd be ~200 points ahead of they had the similar games played.

actual games >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fictional games
Ovechkin has 2102 TGF which is 210 more than Sid has.

Are you guys drunk laredy?
OV leads by 270 golas

It was about goals for. Goals scored by them or their team while Ovi and Sid were on ice.

 

[orby]

Both Crosby and Ovi are less than 40 points away from 1500. It'll be fun to see who hits that mark first! I think both can do it this season if they stay healthy. Ovi is currently one point ahead, but Crosby has some games in hand.

 

[george14]

Tied again

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

...He's played 160 less games. He'd be ~200 points ahead of they had the similar games played.

Just noticed, 168 gp less after tonight. it's 2 full seasons, just nuts!!

 

[george14]

Ovy had had half season where he matched Sid’s best production levels and dropped off. If Sid was more durable and played more full seasons he may have dropped off too. And I don’t see an argument to give the benefit of the doubt to missing games over someone who actually played those games. Certainly Sid hypothetically would end up with more points if he was more durable - which makes sense as he is a playmaker - but I wouldnt give much credit or put much stock in this.

Hypothetically? Let’s not get into semantics here. They have the same amount of points while one guy played 2 fewer seasons. I have noticed a lot of Sid detractors use “durability” against him. It’s not like he had an Eric Lindros “what if” career; he will retire with 600+ goals and 1,000+ assists. He has the same offensive point production as Ovechkin in 2 fewer seasons due to concussion issues from a cheap shot + a broken jaw from a slap shot. It’s not like he sat out due to contract disputes or had “load management” breaks like the NBA. He was robbed of 2 full seasons during his prime and so were the fans.

To me, this sounds like a typical Ovi fan/Sid hater argument that is rooted in emotion. Bobby Orr had a hell of a career that gets elevated because of injuries, same with Bossy. This isn’t some Sid-exclusive argument that only he benefits. He could very well retire with 2 separate HOF careers, and that’s with missing time that affected awards/production over the course of 4 seasons. He essentially has all of the individual + team awards already, multiple times over.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Just noticed, 168 gp less after tonight. it's 2 full seasons, just nuts!!

If there was some sort of advantage to having a $9M player sitting in the press box, and secondary assists were just as good as goals, you'd totally have a point.

But here in real life they've been in the NHL for the same number of seasons, and goals are far more important than secondary assists.

Hypothetically? Let’s not get into semantics here. They have the same amount of points while one guy played 2 fewer seasons.

That is completely false.

They have played precisely the same number of seasons.

 

[Midnight Judges]

He has the same offensive point production as Ovechkin in 2 fewer seasons due to concussion issues from a cheap shot....

That is also completely false.

Crosby's concussion was initially due to extremely poor on-ice awareness. He was puck watching with his head down. Sidney Crosby was turning abruptly and not looking where he was going. He ran right into a player that was skating in a straight line.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Crosby and Ovi have been effectively tied in points scoring for seemingly the last 5 years. Why make a thread every time one passes the other?

In the last 6 seasons, Crosby is at 435 points and Ovi is at 427 points. They've been basically tied in production since after the Penguins cup win in 2017.

 

[DeletedUser539]

Crosby and Ovi have been effectively tied in points scoring for seemingly the last 5 years. Why make a thread every time one passes the other?

In the last 6 seasons, Crosby is at 435 points and Ovi is at 427 points. They've been basically tied in production since after the Penguins cup win in 2017.

They both go in the top 10 all time and I can see arguments for both over the other either way both legends looking to have legendary twilight years still

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

That is also completely false.

Crosby's concussion was initially due to extremely poor on-ice awareness. He was puck watching with his head down. Sidney Crosby was turning abruptly and not looking where he was going. He ran right into a player that was skating in a straight line.

Dude just stop!!!

 

[Midnight Judges]

Dude just stop!!!

Watch the video and feel free to articulate which part of what I said was wrong. Sid runs right into Steckel while turning abruptly and not looking where he was going, with his head down. The collision was Crosby's fault. I get that you guys love him and all, but blaming David Steckel is not equitable.

There are lots of great arguments in Sidney Crosby's favor. Slandering David Steckel need not be among them. Steckel was an honest player who answered the bell more than his fair share. This was not a "cheap shot." It was an unfortunate incident.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

If there was some sort of advantage to having a $9M player sitting in the press box, and secondary assists were just as good as goals, you'd totally have a point.

But here in real life they've been in the NHL for the same number of seasons, and goals are far more important than secondary assists.

Since 07-08 (sorry, nerd stats only go back to 07-08), OV has a RelTM/60 of 0.40 (total of 116.06) at 5v5 and of 0.32 (total of 27.47) on the PP. Crosby is at 0.62 (total of 155.01) and 0.62 (total of 41.19) respectively (funnily enough).

I generally agree with goals > primary assists >> secondary assists, up to a certain extent. We're not comparing Jason Robertson and David Krejci, but two of the greatest in history at their craft. Crosby, despite his lower goal total, is a much greater overall play driver, and overall his assists cannot be deemed, on average, to be as replaceable as the "average" assist. The RelTM stats I referred to, while in no way perfect, do have a meaning due to the sheer sample size - and show that Crosby does seem to increase his team's / teammates' on-ice overall scoring (so his goal + his other teammates' goals) more than OV did. Obviously, the Caps have played a more offensive style overall, and it may be harder for a star player to separate from their teammates when the team as a whole is offense first, thereby potentially OV's numbers there.

Looking at some more advanced stats, EH's model puts their "career" (i.e. since 07-08, so not their entire career) Offense GAR (so just the offense contribution) at 222 for OV and 227 for Crosby. Their Offense xGAR (again, EH's model, which I tend to prefer to their GAR model) puts OV at 283 and Crosby at 272, with OV having the edge on the PP and Crosby having the edge at 5v5. Even taking into account injuries (otherwise as you know, Crosby would have the edge, but I agree "availability" is a thing), this is, like, very, very close.

Unfortunately, I can't bring up those stats for their first 2 seasons, since they simple aren't available.

 

[Fordy]

it's so funny to describe a clip of a guy angling 45 degrees towards someone with their head turned, while they are looking right at them, and then hitting them in the head as "skating in a straight line"

 

[Midnight Judges]

Since 07-08 (sorry, nerd stats only go back to 07-08), OV has a RelTM/60 of 0.40 (total of 116.06) at 5v5 and of 0.32 (total of 27.47) on the PP. Crosby is at 0.62 (total of 155.01) and 0.62 (total of 41.19) respectively (funnily enough).

I generally agree with goals > primary assists >> secondary assists, up to a certain extent. We're not comparing Jason Robertson and David Krejci, but two of the greatest in history at their craft. Crosby, despite his lower goal total, is a much greater overall play driver, and overall his assists cannot be deemed, on average, to be as replaceable as the "average" assist.

Neither can Ovie's goals - except this is true to a far greater degree because Ovie is a far larger outlier in terms of goal scoring than Crosby is in terms of assist accumulation.

Take this one - it's 40+ feet unscreened on one of the best goalies in the NHL. Like, that's not a goal from just about any other player.

 

[CorgiAttack87]

Watch the video and feel free to articulate which part of what I said was wrong. Sid runs right into Steckel while turning abruptly and not looking where he was going, with his head down. The collision was Crosby's fault. I get that you guys love him and all, but blaming David Steckel is not equitable.

View attachment 638986

There are lots of great arguments in Sidney Crosby's favor. Slandering David Steckel need not be among them. Steckel was an honest player who answered the bell more than his fair share. This was not a "cheap shot." It was an unfortunate incident.

oh yeah steckel definitely didn't see crosby the whole way there and put his shoulder right into his head lmao what a joke

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Ovechkin and Crosby are two of the players of all time