Ovechkin passes Crosby for 17th all-time in points

[george14]

Crosby as a playmaker 4 AR+RRs. Ovi as a goal scorer 10 AR+RRs. I think that’s what we’re doing here.

Breaking News Ovechkin better goal scorer than Crosby.

Now do Conn Smythes. How about assists? Points per game? Points? Games played? Playoff points?

Edit: Crosby has effectively been eliminated from awards for several seasons due to concussion issues.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Crosby as a playmaker 4 AR+RRs. Ovi as a goal scorer 10 AR+RRs. I think that’s what we’re doing here.

Exactly, this shouldn’t be this difficult.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Breaking News Ovechkin better goal scorer than Crosby.

Now do Conn Smythes. How about assists? Points per game? Points? Games played? Playoff points?

Edit: Crosby has effectively been eliminated from awards for several seasons due to concussion issues.

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even. There’s a reason many hockey pools count goals as 2 points and that’s because they are much harder to come by. Ovy is the best goal scorer ever, Sid isn’t close to be the best play maker ever. Scoring goals is a rarer more sought after ability.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

Was this meant to be ironic?

 

[yada]

There’s already a thread for this.

Who will have the longer NHL legacy? Ovi vs Sid

I think we all know Crosby has been the better overall rounded player when he is healthy. 100 years from now who will have the greater legacy in NHL history? 3 cups is nice but it only puts crosby ranked at 185 for most rings according to NHL records. His Conn S trophies puts him in a five...

forums.hfboards.com

The 2 Smythes are the crown jewel of the legacy resume for Crosby. Nobody will remember or care how strong/weak they were in 20-30 years. But problem is that 4 other guys have also done that.

Barring something crazy, Ovi’s crown jewel will be 895. Nobody will remember or care in 20-30 years how defensively-focused the all time leading goal scorer was. Gretzky has already said he wants to follow the team around when he gets close. The money shot of 8 + 97 celebrating 895 together just dwarfs anything Crosby has to offer.

And that’s before accounting for things like individual trophy case gap, all time records gap, media/personality/marketability, McDavid eating into Crosby’s legacy, etc.

Stanley cups and smythes more important then the goal record

 

[george14]

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even. There’s a reason many hockey pools count goals as 2 points and that’s because they are much harder to come by. Ovy is the best goal scorer ever, Sid isn’t close to be the best play maker ever. Scoring goals is a rarer more sought after ability.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

The irony in you beginning this rant with an excuse, yet accusing Crosby of having excuses is too good.

This is a ridiculous argument. Crosby is a goal scorer and a playmaker, thus the argument is wrongly applied. It’s like saying shutouts are more rare than wins, so more shutouts automatically means you are better. Your arguments are all short-sighted and ridiculous.

By your logic, Mike Gartner is better than Jean Beliveau.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The irony in you beginning this rant with an excuse, yet accusing Crosby of having excuses is too good.

This is a ridiculous argument. Crosby is a goal scorer and a playmaker, thus the argument is wrongly applied. It’s like saying shutouts are more rare than wins, so more shutouts automatically means you are better. Your arguments are all short-sighted and ridiculous.

By your logic, Mike Gartner is better than Jean Beliveau.

I didn’t begin with an excuse, I began with a fact. An excuse would be presenting a reason why he didn’t win something.

Lmao, nice try with the mike gartner nonsense. We are talking about two players whose careers started at the same time. One completely dominates the other in goal scoring. The gap is huge, so huge, that Crosby’s all around game can’t close the gap.

If Ovy beats Gretzky’s record he will lay claim to being the greatest goal scorer ever. You can easily argue that he is already. Crosby has no such claim. He’s not the greatest st anything. In 20 years when the history books are written, experts will have had time to reflect on what Ovy has done and how difficult it was. What he’s done was thought impossible 10-20 years ago.

Crosby played on better teams and won gold playing for Canada, yay!!!!! I mean Scott Neidermayer won everywhere too, no one thinks he’s close to the best ever. It’s a team game, players only control their own play.

Pumping up Crosby for team accomplishments and missed games, same old, same old tired arguments.

 

[powerbomb]

It's great to see that these arguments have evolved not a lick in fifteen years. Still have fanboys plugging their ears and shouting at each other, rewarding onlookers with a circus scene. Oh, the rabbit hole of irony and shame... there's a mirror you can use if you want to marinade in the unintended irony of partisanship and the noble pursuit of, er, winning Internet arguments?

 

[Magic 8 Ball]

It's great to see that these arguments have evolved not a lick in fifteen years. Still have fanboys plugging their ears and shouting at each other, rewarding onlookers with a circus scene. Oh, the rabbit hole of irony and shame... there's a mirror you can use if you want to marinade in the unintended irony of partisanship and the noble pursuit of, er, winning Internet arguments?

It's pathetic that these fanboys are 15 years older and still acting like children. When you graduate high school, it's time to get a life.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I didn't know Crosby and Malkin played on the same line. Am I reading something (all this) in an alternate universe?

The comment was in response to someone mentioning the player's production without the other in the lineup (Crosby w/o Malkin and Ovi w/o Backstrom). I'm not the one who started that discussion, I was just pointing out how what the guy said was BS. Shockingly, the guy slinging BS disappeared from the thread after a couple outlandish comments lol.

 

[orby]

The Crosby vs Ovechkin debate will never end. Nothing is ever gonna budge Sid or Ovi superfans from their positions. It's like arguing over whether blue is a better color than red.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Was this meant to be ironic?

What is ironic about that?

Sidney Crosby obviously didn't deserve the Conn Smythe in 2016 when he produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player who didn't kill penalties (10 seconds per game - which is really just him hopping over the boards after the real penalty killer got a clear) or play much defense (66% offensive zone starts).

Sid was tied for 6th in points and tied for 12th in goals in those playoffs.

Ovechkin earned all of his awards. For his Conn Smythe he produced at a 92 point / 51 goal pace.

Ovechkin was 2nd in points and 1st in goals in those playoffs.

Surely you're not about to argue that Ovie's 92 point / 51 goal pace was the same as Crosby's 65 point / 21 goal pace.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

What is ironic about that?

Sidney Crosby obviously didn't deserve the Conn Smythe in 2016 when he produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player who didn't kill penalties (10 seconds per game - which is really just him hopping over the boards after the real penalty killer got a clear) or play much defense (66% offensive zone starts).

Sid was tied for 6th in points and tied for 12th in goals in those playoffs.

Ovechkin earned all of his awards. For his Conn Smythe he produced at a 92 point / 51 goal pace.

Ovechkin was 2nd in points and 1st in goals in those playoffs.

Surely you're not about to argue that Ovie's 92 point / 51 goal pace was the same as Crosby's 65 point / 21 goal pace.

What’s ironic about making a Smythe excuse about Crosby, then proceeding to complain that only Crosby fans make excuses?

I’m not on the either side, for what it’s worth. I’m a fan against lazy arguments.

 

[SEALBound]

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even. There’s a reason many hockey pools count goals as 2 points and that’s because they are much harder to come by. Ovy is the best goal scorer ever, Sid isn’t close to be the best play maker ever. Scoring goals is a rarer more sought after ability.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

Outside of a hardy laugh, I don't have any real comments that don't just belittle this statement.

I just want to quote to make sure it's captured.

Hil-ar-ious.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I'll never understand the argument that Phil Kessel, playing on the third line and drawing the bottom defensive pairing, deserved the Conn Smythe over Sidney Crosby, whom drew the top defensive pairing, because of 3 points or whatever it was.

 

[J bo Jeans]

I didn’t begin with an excuse, I began with a fact. An excuse would be presenting a reason why he didn’t win something.

Lmao, nice try with the mike gartner nonsense. We are talking about two players whose careers started at the same time. One completely dominates the other in goal scoring. The gap is huge, so huge, that Crosby’s all around game can’t close the gap.

If Ovy beats Gretzky’s record he will lay claim to being the greatest goal scorer ever. You can easily argue that he is already. Crosby has no such claim. He’s not the greatest st anything. In 20 years when the history books are written, experts will have had time to reflect on what Ovy has done and how difficult it was. What he’s done was thought impossible 10-20 years ago.

Crosby played on better teams and won gold playing for Canada, yay!!!!! I mean Scott Neidermayer won everywhere too, no one thinks he’s close to the best ever. It’s a team game, players only control their own play.

Pumping up Crosby for team accomplishments and missed games, same old, same old tired arguments.

Crosby played on better teams?? Since they both started in the league the Pens have finished ahead of the Capitals 5 total times, and have never won the presidents trophy while the Caps have 3 times.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'll never understand the argument that Phil Kessel, playing on the third line and drawing the bottom defensive pairing, deserved the Conn Smythe over Sidney Crosby, whom drew the top defensive pairing, because of 3 points or whatever it was.

Which got decided on the last game with offensive/ defensive plays that ended up winning them the cup.

That's setting up Letang (game winner) and icing it by sending Hornqvist in to be up by 2 in a 3-1 win.

Yes. they were both 1st assists.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even. There’s a reason many hockey pools count goals as 2 points and that’s because they are much harder to come by. Ovy is the best goal scorer ever, Sid isn’t close to be the best play maker ever. Scoring goals is a rarer more sought after ability.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

3 more points, in 168 less games

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I'll never understand the argument that Phil Kessel, playing on the third line and drawing the bottom defensive pairing, deserved the Conn Smythe over Sidney Crosby, whom drew the top defensive pairing, because of 3 points or whatever it was.

I think it's a combo of Kessel being a beloved player, Crosby being a disliked player, and people stat-watching instead of watching the actual games.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Lmao, Conn Smythe’s, 50% of Sid’s Smythes he shouldn’t even have making them even. There’s a reason many hockey pools count goals as 2 points and that’s because they are much harder to come by. Ovy is the best goal scorer ever, Sid isn’t close to be the best play maker ever. Scoring goals is a rarer more sought after ability.

Sounds like Crosby has shelf full of excuses whereas Ovy has the hardware.

Agreed, maybe the NHL should also unretire #99, what a joke with his 894 goals and 1963 helpers!!! He should have score much more goals, what a fraud!!!

 

[joestevens29]

Never read the thread, but I honestly don't know that I've seen a thread started about a guy passing another guy even though both are still playing.

Could make a new thread everyday

 

[beowulf]

What is ironic about that?

Sidney Crosby obviously didn't deserve the Conn Smythe in 2016 when he produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player who didn't kill penalties (10 seconds per game - which is really just him hopping over the boards after the real penalty killer got a clear) or play much defense (66% offensive zone starts).

Sid was tied for 6th in points and tied for 12th in goals in those playoffs.

Ovechkin earned all of his awards. For his Conn Smythe he produced at a 92 point / 51 goal pace.

Ovechkin was 2nd in points and 1st in goals in those playoffs.

Surely you're not about to argue that Ovie's 92 point / 51 goal pace was the same as Crosby's 65 point / 21 goal pace.

This has got to be the funniest post here, trying to use numbers on a hypothetical 82 game playoff season? Come on.

 

[Tyrus]

They're both so much worse than McDavid, at this point who cares really.

 

[dr robbie]

This has got to be the funniest post here, trying to use numbers on a hypothetical 82 game playoff season? Come on.

It makes me chuckle when specific posters lash out against any per game metric due to it hurting their horse, but then extrapolate production to magnify a perceived edge. It has to be exhausting constantly trying to make the narrative fit what you want it to be.

 

[MeHateHe]

3 more points, in 168 less games

Fewer.





C'mon. If we're going to get into petty, pedantic debates, at least hit the grammar high points.