Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24
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Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
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Eh, people see gaudy point totals and think that automatically makes them a shoe-in to be a star in the NHL. While it's been proven that's not always the case.
I don't love the Stramel pick. I don't hate the Stramel pick. I'll wait to see how the kid pans out before rioting or raising a huge stink.
People here like shiny flashy things because they have the attention span of a 2 year old. Personally, I think Edstrom will be better than all of Perreault, Stramel, Ritchie, Nadeau, etc.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I'm not trying to hate on people who like Perreault, I get the appeal, I just don't think he's the Pastrnak of 2023, at the time there were like 6 guys we were all discussing and none of them were any more or less slam dunks than the others
I understand the question marks after Perrault USNDT career and his apparent lack of two way play.
He’s now tearing up a men’s league at age 18 and is playing a much more responsible game. The scouts got him wrong big time and if a redraft were to happen he’d be a top 10 pick. As it was he fell in our lap as the obvious pick and we went about a full 25 places off the board to take Stramel.
He’s now tearing up a men’s league at age 18 and is playing a much more responsible game. The scouts got him wrong big time and if a redraft were to happen he’d be a top 10 pick. As it was he fell in our lap as the obvious pick and we went about a full 25 places off the board to take Stramel.
Let's hope he can break out a bit next year. Otherwise it's up to Heidt to save that draft.
I also liked Edstrom, Ritchie(has been killing it since coming back from injury), and Wahlberg as other big C's with talent, Stenberg(another C)as well as the undersized but stunningly talented Brindley, as well as Heidt. We did get Heidt later on, obviously, but that was due to luck more than anything.
Those were all C's. If you expand to tother positions(like Perrault) then there were other choices i would've preferred over Stramel.
Hope i'm wrong, and Stramel is just one of those slow developers. As of now, i just don't get the pick, or rather, I think i do, and don't agree with it, especially with the other players available. Ritchie, Edstrom and Wahlberg are all 6'3", also, and the latter two are playing in a better league than the NCAA(SHL).
Jbcraig1883
Registered User
Since everyone is listing who they preferred, I had Ritchie, Perreault, Heidt, Nadeau, Stenberg, Brindley, and then Edstrom in that spot. Since we did get Heidt later on, the Stramel pick doesn't bother me as much. But I'd rather have taken any of the aforementioned.
Happy to eat crow in a few years if Stramel ends up contributing more than those guys.
Happy to eat crow in a few years if Stramel ends up contributing more than those guys.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
College is not a men's league. SHL, AHL, KHL, NHL ...those are men's leagues. Every year you see successful college players go to the AHL, and fail to impress.
Me too. I know he's short, but he's pretty thick, and absolutely dances on his skates. I just can understand not taking after their experience with Rossi( at the time of the draft).
Maybe we have the definition of men confused which by today’s standards wouldnt surprise me but I’d say the NCAA is a men’s league. There are plenty of men playing in it and virtually no boys.
Further , a full 99% of players in men’s ncaa hockey are 19 years old and above. Rendering it fully a MENS LEAGUE
TaLoN
Red 5 standing by
The average age of every team in the NCAA is 20 years plus... some with an average age of 22 plus.
NCAA hockey is a men's league. CHL hockey is not, which is why its called juniors.
The other leagues you identified are professional leagues. Yes, not all NCAA players move on and succeed in the pros, but that doesn't mean they didn't come from a men's league.
BagHead
Registered User
This is definitely a semantics issue. If you define men's league by 18+ average age, it's absolutely a men's league. If you definite it by it not having any boys (under 18), it's not a men's league. If you use "men's league" in line with "pro league", then it's also not a men's league. It really just depends on the speaker's definitions as to whether it's a men's league or not, and obviously for f7ben it is. Personally, I think it walks the line.
If one does consider the NCAA a men's league, it's most certainly one of the lowest, if not the absolute lowest league. Tearing it up is quite a bit different than tearing up the SHL, Liiga, AHL or even the ECHL, and I have to imagine that's what 57special was getting it. If that's not what he was getting at, then I apologize for misinterpreting his words, and instead it's what I am getting at.
The NCAA is certainly miles ahead of the echl. Any years frozen 4 teams would absolutely destroy the best echl team consistently
Well, I had a long discussion with a guy who played at Mankato for 4 years, then quite a few years in the ECHL, and he said the opposite. He said the pros were smarter faster, and stronger.
BagHead
Registered User
I have no way of verifying the truth of that statement. Regardless of your confidence in it, the ability levels between the two leagues are close enough that I still have doubts. NCAA players have gone on to tear up the ECHL, and others have gone on to flounder there. The NCAA may have more top-end skill, but it also lacks the polish of the professional game. That it's close, though, sort of proves my point that it walks the line of being a men's league. The ECHL is one of the lowest pro leagues that I even know the name of.
Never underestimate a grown man playing for a paycheck, and a chance for a better life. A 24-26 yo man has it all over a 20 yo both mentally, physically, and maturity wise.
TaLoN
Red 5 standing by
In terms of prospects... going from juniors to NCAA is going from juniors to a men's league. That's the comparison here, and is valid. That doesn't make him a sure thing, as going up the ladder trips up many along the way, but it does look VERY PROMISING.
I think an underestimated element in development is the system/coaching and linemates/roles. it’s not all about the league.
Plus, 18-22 year olds are fickle creatures in general.
Plus, 18-22 year olds are fickle creatures in general.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Going from the USNTDP to the NCAA is such a minor jump relative to other jumps along the way in a career.
If you're going to get nitpicky about average age indicating a men's league, you can easily claim the USHL (where the USNTDP plays a majority of their games) is already a men's league, the average age is over 18.
The point of the USNTDP is that it's basically an all star team of some of the best players of that age range in the country, so when he's putting up these points, he's doing it on an all-star team against non-all star teams. At BC, this hasn't changed much because he's still playing with Smith and Leonard, and now Gauthier too, on the best team in the league. Point of that being he still has a ton of help from guys who the industry almost unanimously agrees are better players than himself.
So sure, it's a step in the right direction, and a better sign than if he went to BC and hit a wall completely, but it was hardly a step up for him both in terms of age of competition, and quality of linemates.
But if you really want to see what he looks like when he gets to a harder level, you're going to have to wait until he gets to Hartford and plays against actual men in an actual professional league and his best linemates are guys who probably aren't going to be much, if anything, in the NHL. And that still doesn't guarantee success because the jump from the AHL to the NHL is arguably larger than the jump from NCAA to the AHL.
Again, not trying to hate on Perreault or anyone who prefers him, but he is still no more of a sure thing now than he was a year ago when most of the leagues scouts agreed he was a late first round pick and his linemates were all top 10 picks.
If you're going to get nitpicky about average age indicating a men's league, you can easily claim the USHL (where the USNTDP plays a majority of their games) is already a men's league, the average age is over 18.
The point of the USNTDP is that it's basically an all star team of some of the best players of that age range in the country, so when he's putting up these points, he's doing it on an all-star team against non-all star teams. At BC, this hasn't changed much because he's still playing with Smith and Leonard, and now Gauthier too, on the best team in the league. Point of that being he still has a ton of help from guys who the industry almost unanimously agrees are better players than himself.
So sure, it's a step in the right direction, and a better sign than if he went to BC and hit a wall completely, but it was hardly a step up for him both in terms of age of competition, and quality of linemates.
But if you really want to see what he looks like when he gets to a harder level, you're going to have to wait until he gets to Hartford and plays against actual men in an actual professional league and his best linemates are guys who probably aren't going to be much, if anything, in the NHL. And that still doesn't guarantee success because the jump from the AHL to the NHL is arguably larger than the jump from NCAA to the AHL.
Again, not trying to hate on Perreault or anyone who prefers him, but he is still no more of a sure thing now than he was a year ago when most of the leagues scouts agreed he was a late first round pick and his linemates were all top 10 picks.
BagHead
Registered User
I agree, his production moving up a level is super promising. I'm not trying to bash the prospect or anything.
TaLoN
Red 5 standing by
The USNDTP plays against USHL teams. The quality and age of competition is definitely increased by going to the NCAA.
Nobody is calling him a sure thing, that I'm aware of. Just one of the many alternatives that people would've preferred over Stramel who is doing little to change draft day opinions.
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I don't know where you are getting your info. The CHL has all sorts of players that are 20, and by mid season, 21. There tend to be some pretty tough players in there too, though maybe not as tough as they used to be, when the CHL was very tough. While some college teams load up on older players (usually less talented ones), the top teams get players 17-19yo's in ASAP, and the more talented ones are gone after a year or two.
There is a difference of about two years on average, but the difference in age between the ECHL and the NCAA is greater than the difference between the NCAA and CHL. While it's not like the old days when Junior hockey was a bloodbath every night, and college hockey had almost zero fighting, let's not pretend that college hockey is filled with a bunch of tough guys, and the CHL with pencil necked geeks. There is a bunch of terrifyingly strong farm boys playing in the CHL who have no illusions about how tough they are going to have be to make it in pro hockey, while college players are going to frat parties, and going to Sociology classes.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
TaLoN
Red 5 standing by
2 years is a LOT at that age! Avg age of the teams in the OHL right now is high 17, low 18.
Avg age in the NCAA is low 20 to low 22. That's 2 to 4 years difference in avg for the NCAA vs OHL in the CHL.
I'm not disputing the age difference that is encountered in the pros... because it's clearly higher and why it's another clear step up... but you cannot discount the age difference and maturity between the CHL and NCAA. It's why Charlie Coyle... who was only putting up mediocre numbers in NCAA, went off the charts when he stepped down to the CHL and was a man amongst boys.
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