Confirmed with Link: Matteau to MTL for Devante Smith-Pelly

[SteveCangialosi123]

You guys have completely misunderstood me here. My comments really have nothing to do with Matteau. Not even a little. To me Matteau was an asset that was mishandled by both regimes, and thrown away. Getting less value than they should have had they took the time to develop him and give him the opportunity.

This issue for me is trading a forward prospect for a limited player. Yeah it is nice and all that Pelly has 10 points in 9 games but any reasonable person looking at his career would fully understand that there hasn't been much of anything there. This is a guy that had opportunity with Getzlaf and Perry on multiple occasions so don't tell me his numbers are because of usage...

So this is a player that had 21 goals in 195 before he got here - Pelly literally just scored a quarter of his career goals here in New Jersey in 9 games... 25% here. and is a RFA with arbitration rights at the end of this seasom.

Sorry dudes, Matteau can be bubble gum stuck to the bottom of your shoe...But trading a two year younger player, signed for another year that hasn't been given an opportunity for a 4th liner is terrible, terrible, terrible asset management. Just is.

Your argument is invalid because your assumptions aren't accurate. You're starting with the premise that DSP is "limited." This is baseless. He has physical tools, was highly touted, produced in junior, produced in the AHL, produced in the NHL playoffs, produced 7 points in 11 games when in the top 9 on MTL, and has been amazing for us in 9 games. If DSP is limited, Matteau is certainly limited (he has never produced or shown much of anything at any level).

And why are you acting like DSP was getting 15 minutes a night with 1st line talent for 100+ games? The heavy majority of those games were played on the 4th line with bad players for 10 minutes a night with very little if any PP time.

How do your comments have nothing to do with Matteau? You made countless posts in defense of his lack of production in the AHL and NHL.

And if you think this move by Shero is "bad asset management", I'm not sure what to say. It's probably the best trade of the season for any team in the NHL.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

i can't imagine you will get much disagreement there but DSP from matteau is nothing to complain about especially since this regime also wanted nothing to do with mytoe

 

[JimEIV]

Your argument is invalid because your assumptions aren't accurate. You're starting with the premise that DSP is "limited." This is baseless. He has physical tools, was highly touted, produced in junior, produced in the AHL, produced in the NHL playoffs, produced 7 points in 11 games when in the top 9 on MTL, and has been amazing for us in 9 games. If DSP is limited, Matteau is certainly limited (he has never produced or shown much of anything at any level).

And why are you acting like DSP was getting 15 minutes a night with 1st line talent for 100+ games? The heavy majority of those games were played on the 4th line with bad players for 10 minutes a night with very little if any PP time.

How do your comments have nothing to do with Matteau? You made countless posts in defense of his lack of production in the AHL and NHL.

And if you think this move by Shero is "bad asset management", I'm not sure what to say. It's probably the best trade of the season for any team in the NHL.

They aren't assumptions, they are facts.

4 yrs ANA NHL 129 games - 40 points -- 6 points on special teams - ATOI 13:03 .31 points per games
2 yrs MTL 66 games 15 points -- All even strength ATOI 11:42 .22 points per game


This is a 4th liner with a 195 game track record.

 

[devilsblood]

The mishandling of Matteau is strictly on Lou. Shero was dealing with the hand he was dealt. The argument of "he should have played more this season in NJ" fails to consider that he was just not able, or at least ready to be given consistent minutes.

New regime did not like Matteau, he was not part of their plans, they traded him. That's good asset mgmt.

 

[devilsblood]

They aren't assumptions, they are facts.

4 yrs ANA NHL 129 games - 40 points -- 6 points on special teams - ATOI 13:03 .31 points per games
2 yrs MTL 66 games 15 points -- All even strength ATOI 11:42 .22 points per game


This is a 4th liner with a 195 game track record.

Who was ready to bloom into a productive top 6 RW.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

They are assumptions, they are facts.

4 yrs ANA NHL 129 games - 40 points -- 6 points on special teams - ATOI 13:03 .31 points per games
2 yrs MTL 66 games 15 points -- All even strength ATOI 11:42 .22 points per game


This is a 4th liner with a 195 game track record.

I agree that a guy playing 12 minutes a game on pace for 25 points a year is a 4th liner. But as I said previously, name me some players who get 4th line minutes with 4th liners who produce more than 20-30 points a year. That's respectable production given the circumstances (19-22 year old keep in mind). He also scored 27 goals in 55 games in the AHL. You give no weight to that. He's also got 17 points in 20 games this season when he has played in the top 9. That's impressive. But none of that means anything to you because you've already branded him "limited."

He's shown as much skill or even more than David Clarkson did in this uniform. He was the king of the garbage goal. I see no reason why he couldn't get 15 or 20 goals and 30-35 points if he's given 15+ minutes a night with solid linemates. And there's nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise. He's looked great and he's produced on the score sheet. This was a fantastic trade.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

You guys have completely misunderstood me here. My comments really have nothing to do with Matteau. Not even a little. To me Matteau was an asset that was mishandled by both regimes, and thrown away. Getting less value than they should have had they took the time to develop him and give him the opportunity.

This issue for me is trading a forward prospect for a limited player. Yeah it is nice and all that Pelly has 10 points in 9 games but any reasonable person looking at his career would fully understand that there hasn't been much of anything there. This is a guy that had opportunity with Getzlaf and Perry on multiple occasions so don't tell me his numbers are because of usage...

So this is a player that had 21 goals in 195 before he got here - Pelly literally just scored a quarter of his career goals here in New Jersey in 9 games... 25% here. and is a RFA with arbitration rights at the end of this seasom.

Sorry dudes, Matteau can be bubble gum stuck to the bottom of your shoe...But trading a two year younger player, signed for another year that hasn't been given an opportunity for a 4th liner is terrible, terrible, terrible asset management. Just is.

We really don't know this for sure, though. It's entirely possible that Matteau, if given more of an opportunity to show that he belonged in the NHL, would just prove all the more that he didn't, and thus reduce his value in a trade from an unknown quantity to a basically known failed commodity. In Montreal, that seems to be the direction his career is trending in so far, unfortunately for him.

At this point, it's starting to look like Matteau will be lucky to have Smith-Pelly's NHl career. There certainly aren't signs in my opinion that he will be better than DSP.

I just think you've consistently overvalued Matteau in this thread--for instance, thinking Shero could get a third round pick for him, when a sixth round pick is probably a more accurate assessment of Matteau's worth in the league, in my view--so it prevents you from seeing that DSP is actually good value for an asset that had questionable and probably only depreciating worth.

I defended Matteau more than most around here, but there was no denying that his value around the league was low, and so far he hasn't done anything to increase it in Montreal. Maybe that changes, but for now, Matteau has done little to make me regret the trade.

 

[JimEIV]

I agree that a guy playing 12 minutes a game on pace for 25 points a year is a 4th liner. But as I said previously, name me some players who get 4th line minutes with 4th liners who produce more than 20-30 points a year. That's respectable production given the circumstances (19-22 year old keep in mind). He also scored 27 goals in 55 games in the AHL. You give no weight to that. He's also got 17 points in 20 games with season when he has played in the top 9. That's impressive. But none of that means anything to you because you've already branded him "limited."

He's shown as much skill or even more than David Clarkson did in this uniform. He was the king of the garbage goal. I see no reason why he couldn't get 15 or 20 goals and 30-35 points if he's given 15+ minutes a night with solid linemates. And there's nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise. He's looked great and he's produced on the score sheet. This was a fantastic trade.

Before he got here he had 21 goals in 195 games that averages 8.8 goals over 82 games. To get to 20 he has to more than double his career average of 195 games.

By Clarkson's 2nd year in the NHL he scored more goals than Pelly has right now over his 5 years in the NHL.

Clarkson had 29 goals his first 170 games......Pelly has 28 goals in 202 career games with a ridiculous hot streak where he just produced 25% of his career goals in 9 games.

Say what you want about Clarkson's overall game and I probably couldn't disagree with you but Clarkson had a really good shot and he scored a lot of goals here.

 

[NJDevils17]

Smith-Pelly could play top 6 minutes and produce 15-20 goals. However, a successful team has him on the third line. I have no doubt if he stays with Henrique he can put together a 15--20--35 season. That's great but really he's better suited for a third line role. A top 6 RW would change this team a ton. Palmieri, RW2 and Smith-Pelly is very good.

Palmieri is a first line RW in the NHL. It's the weakest position and he is 7th in goals and 12th in points. That's first line production. We're a 2nd line RW away from some serious depth at the position.

If he proves to be a fixture in the top 6 for the future then heck yeah it's awesome but I'm not going to bank on it until there's a longer track record. Imagine if Shero acquires two top 6 right wings for Matteau, a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Before he got here he had 21 goals in 195 games that averages 8.8 goals over 82 games. To get to 20 he has to more than double his career average of 195 games.

By Clarkson's 2nd year in the NHL he scored more goals than Pelly has right now over his 5 years in the NHL.

Clarkson had 29 goals his first 170 games......Pelly has 28 goals in 202 career games with a ridiculous hot streak where he just produced 25% of his career goals in 9 games.

Say what you want about Clarkson's overall game and I probably couldn't disagree with you but Clarkson had a really good shot and he scored a lot of goals here.

Clarkson was also 23 years old in his first year. DSP is 23 this year. As a 23 year old Clarkson put up 9 goals 13 assists for 22 points in 12 minutes a game (81 games). DSP has 13 goals 9 assists for 22 points but in 55 games. I see no reason why DSP couldn't improve now that he's seemingly found a home in NJ. I don't think he'll be a star, but he's more than a 4th liner or at the very least a very very good 4th liner capable of potting 15. That's valuable.

 

[Zippy316]

Smith-Pelly could play top 6 minutes and produce 15-20 goals. However, a successful team has him on the third line. I have no doubt if he stays with Henrique he can put together a 15--20--35 season. That's great but really he's better suited for a third line role. A top 6 RW would change this team a ton. Palmieri, RW2 and Smith-Pelly is very good.

Palmieri is a first line RW in the NHL. It's the weakest position and he is 7th in goals and 12th in points. That's first line production. We're a 2nd line RW away from some serious depth at the position.

If he proves to be a fixture in the top 6 for the future then heck yeah it's awesome but I'm not going to bank on it until there's a longer track record. Imagine if Shero acquires two top 6 right wings for Matteau, a 2nd and a 3rd.

I would like to see us add a playmaking RW for the top six, if possible. Would give us a nice variety in our top 3 right wings if Smith-Pelley shows he is able to be a solid 3RW.

As for Smith-Pelly, I think he's going to end up being a 3RW who can fill in the top six if need be and provide a north-south net front presence like he is now.

 

[Zippy316]

Clarkson was also 23 years old in his first year. DSP is 23 this year. As a 23 year old Clarkson put up 9 goals 13 assists for 22 points in 12 minutes a game (81 games). DSP has 13 goals 9 assists for 22 points but in 55 games. I see no reason why DSP couldn't improve now that he's seemingly found a home in NJ. I don't think he'll be a star, but he's more than a 4th liner or at the very least a very very good 4th liner capable of potting 15. That's valuable.

Yeah I think the Clarkson comparable is pretty good.

Clarkson also came out of practically nowhere with his goal and point production at the NHL level, in a bit of the same way Smith-Pelley has had this run.

 

[JimEIV]

Clarkson was also 23 years old in his first year. DSP is 23 this year. As a 23 year old Clarkson put up 9 goals 13 assists for 22 points in 12 minutes a game (81 games). DSP has 13 goals 9 assists for 22 points but in 55 games. I see no reason why DSP couldn't improve now that he's seemingly found a home in NJ. I don't think he'll be a star, but he's more than a 4th liner or at the very least a very very good 4th liner capable of potting 15. That's valuable.

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.



Take a look here:

He has a solid release, and a relatively powerful shot, but his puck skills are weak, and his offensive awareness wasn't high enough for him to ever crack Pronman's top-10 Ducks prospects, nor did he ever make Pronman's top 100 prospects around the NHL.

Pronman has written pretty consistently that while Smith-Pelly has a top-six level shot, his skill set trends more towards the fourth line. He brings a high level of physicality, and can bring a certain level of chaos when forechecking, but he hasn't displayed the instincts to be truly effective with or without the puck, though Pronman noted in 2012 that he saw improved hockey sense from Smith-Pelly over his junior career.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2015/2/25/8106071/devante-smith-pelly-trade-jiri-sekac-canadiens

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.



Take a look here:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2015/2/25/8106071/devante-smith-pelly-trade-jiri-sekac-canadiens

If we flipped a useless plug with no future into a physical player capable of getting near 20 goals a year, we win. Big time. You can't tell me you haven't been impressed with how he's looked in our uniform. Goals aside, he's made great passes, worked hard, used his body, drew penalties and has done everything Hynes has asked. Really couldn't ask more. This time next year you're gonna look back and see how silly this was.

 

[Zippy316]

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.



Take a look here:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2015/2/25/8106071/devante-smith-pelly-trade-jiri-sekac-canadiens

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. We traded a guy that was clearly not going to get a chance here and eventually was going to be buried with all of our LW prospects for a player we could use at a position of weakness.

Clarkson was also able to fill in at times higher up in the line-up, which Smith-Pelley has shown of late.

EDIT: Or I was beaten to exactly what I was going to say.

 

[devilsblood]

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.



Take a look here:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2015/2/25/8106071/devante-smith-pelly-trade-jiri-sekac-canadiens

I can already see it. DSP scores 30, and Jim is giving us a "so what, Clarkson did too and we see where he is now".

 

[Classic Devil]

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.

As limited as Smith-Pelly is, Matteau is that much more limited.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

They aren't assumptions, they are facts.

4 yrs ANA NHL 129 games - 40 points -- 6 points on special teams - ATOI 13:03 .31 points per games
2 yrs MTL 66 games 15 points -- All even strength ATOI 11:42 .22 points per game


This is a 4th liner with a 195 game track record.

Yes and going by this logic Palmieri was just a third liner before the season started. Both of those guys were on deep teams and were not able to get their full chance. Palmieri has already proved himself and Smith-Pelly is in the process of doing so. Smith-Pelly is a third liner at worst and a guy you can plug in the top 6 and PP. We got a steal and a very good player going forward. But keep tearing down the guy who has been our best player the last 2 weeks.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

As limited as Smith-Pelly is, Matteau is that much more limited.

Exactly. The best part is one hasn't even proved that he can be an NHL player. I don't get why some of the louder more out spoken posters on this site have something against Smith Pelly. No one thinks he's gonna keep up this pace. I see a guy with size who can score between 18-25 goals a season and 40+ points. What's Matteau's potential 8 goals and 20 points a season at best?

 

[NJDevs26]

I think that we are making this comparison, really as a best case scenario, highlights the fact that this is an extremely limited player.

And what exactly is Matteau's best case scenario, Steve Bernier?

 

[JimEIV]

As limited as Smith-Pelly is, Matteau is that much more limited.

And what exactly is Matteau's best case scenario, Steve Bernier?

And again, what Matteau is as a player is completely irrelevant to my point.

I am not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp, we traded a former 1st rounder for a guy who was literally one step away from being available for free this summer after Montreal most likely walked away from resigning him.

You cannot come to any other conclusion than piss poor asset management.

A pick for Matteau would've been much more advantageous for New Jersey OR giving up a low pick for Pelly would've been better for us as well...but throwing away an undeveloped former 1st round asset for what really is the type of player you can pick up for nothing is just bad management...

Players like a Bernier, like a Carter, like a Kalinin, like a Tootoo...Or like a Dale Weiss or a Chris Stewart this summer --- Or like a Stempniak... Free, no cost at all, None whatsoever. Pelly was one step away from that with Montreal.

Now if All Matteau was worth on the open market was 6th round pick, the value of giving him an opportuuntiy here has to be worth more than that...

And if all Matteau was worth on the open market was 6th round pick, we should've paid that for Pelly...Any way you want to slice it, it is poor asset management.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

If we hadn't traded Matteau, he'd probably still be moldering in the press box, not developing. Shero, Hynes, and the new regime as a whole didn't seem interested in developing him from the first. I think Shero wanted to trade Matteau for the best value that he could get, and DSP was the best offer available. There's just no point in holding onto an asset you have no interest in developing. It's not going to gain value that way.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

And again, what Matteau is as a player is completely irrelevant to my point.

I am not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp, we traded a former 1st rounder for a guy who was literally one step away from being available for free this summer after Montreal most likely walked away from resigning him.

You cannot come to any other conclusion than piss poor asset management.

A pick for Matteau would've been much more advantageous for New Jersey OR giving up a low pick for Pelly would've been better for us as well...but throwing away an undeveloped former 1st round asset for what really is the type of player you can pick up for nothing is just bad management...

Players like a Bernier, like a Carter, like a Kalinin, like a Tootoo...Or like a Dale Weiss or a Chris Stewart this summer --- Or like a Stempniak... Free, no cost at all, None whatsoever. Pelly was one step away from that with Montreal.

Now if All Matteau was worth on the open market was 6th round pick, the value of giving him an opportuuntiy here has to be worth more than that...

And if all Matteau was worth on the open market was 6th round pick, we should've paid that for Pelly...Any way you want to slice it, it is poor asset management.

You're 100% wrong. How is flipping a useless player who had no business being a 1st round pick who was disliked by management for a 23 year old with higher potential and more success already a bad move? You're overthinking it. Bottom line: we moved a worse player with worse potential for a better player with better potential and over the last 2 weeks he's literally been one of the most productive players in the league. It's over, you lose.

 

[theoptimist]

But Matteau wasn't going to play anyway, so why not just trade him for something.

 

[Devils Dominion]

You all are continuing to fall for the bait.....