Leafs announce promotions and new goalie coach

[WTFMAN99]

Industrial experience is nearly seamlessly transferable in almost all cases; I took what I learned working for Toyota, and directly extrapolated out a lot of those practices into working for an office furniture manufacturer, vastly different in scope but key elements remain the same.

People can, over time, overtake another person with more experience through the law of declining of returns, but one thing that cannot happen unless you trip and fall into an absolute genius/prodigy/outlier is have someone exceed that person without the same experience.

I do think, though, that we've bifurcated the discussion - one about Wickenheiser deserving her own promotion aside from the rest, and the other being her qualifications as an AGM and if the group has been promoted on the same basis/merit.

As to the first, I submit that even through base history, Wickenheiser has done more than any of the others, and it's not even close particular to her role.

As to the second, I think Wickenheiser is deserving of an AGM role, but I debate the others - as a result, using the old adage, "if everyone is something, no one is something". Having 5 AGM's doesn't make them AGM's, it makes them Directors with prettier titles and bigger paycheques and fancier resumes, which will help them move on to bigger and better things (which I think is by design; if Dubas gets the boot, they'll likely get the boot as well, but will have AGM on their CV).

To use another company I worked for, on the Sales side, they wanted to promote 5 Regional Managers of Sales to Vice Presidents of Sales, despite the fact that they already had two VP's of Sales.

The Plan?

To have them each become Regional Vice Presidents, which was no different than Regional Managers - same responsibilities, no one below them got a corresponding promotion and no corresponding backfill to the RM position, and the existing Vice Presidents became Senior Vice Presidents so (you guessed it) bigger titles, and paycheques, but the same job.

Why did they do it? Simply put, they wanted to pay their people more and give them fancier titles. In reality, it was gross - they give already higher-ups just more money and clout, but the people who work beneath them lose opportunities at legitimate promotions and abilities to move their own careers forward.

I guarantee there is no plan to promote any new "Directors" to these portfolios. This is all glad-handing and resumé padding, while the people who report to them see little, if any, benefit... outside of potentially keeping their job under a new regime.

I agree on this and your other posts. Wickenheiser was actually the most deserving and she has a ton of actual hockey experience.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Why do they refer to her as Dr? What exactly does she have her doctorate in? Why are the other individuals not given their titles (Mr)? Is she supposed to be the called Dr, Wickenheiser in a professional setting when doing hockey things?

This just seems like pandering.

If only the leafs were as good at playoffs are they are in media relations.

I had a high school teacher who has a M.D. in Physics who would get pissed if he wasn't referred to as Dr. It takes a lot of time and dedication to get an M.D., and it shows a sign of respect and acknowledgement for those that have gone through the process. And when I say a high school teacher, this guy taught at a high school of less than 300 students, so it's not like a school in Toronto where 1 class could be 300 big.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

The problem I personally find with Dubas isn’t that he’s inexperienced per se but the fact that he’s also started from the position of rejecting convention so over time he’s also learning why convention is convention.

It’s that his M.O. has always been to bring a degree of innovation to team building process. Which means he’s rejecting some conventional roster and organization building strategies to find capitalize on practice inefficiencies and “staking his career” on those “beliefs.”

I also think that Dubas was something of a snake oil salesman when he sat down with Shanahan oh many years ago.

I think there is a big factor where Shanahan, a career hockey man who likely (though admittedly I can't be certain) wasn't exactly a mathematical genius. In walks in a young, confident kid who started throwing around equations and numbers to support existing or emerging ideas within the community (i.e. puck possession is critical), going beyond the X's and O's on a whiteboard.

I think Shanahan bought in, partially because of his own hubris. He's openly admitted that sitting down with Dubas was meant to be an hour long conversation to give him his due, but ended up being a full day endeavour, ordering lunch, etc.

To me, that seems odd. Even when I interview someone and am blow away but what they have to say, even at high-level positions, I'll give them two hours instead of one, but more screams "I'm falling under your spell, and buying what you're selling."

 

[Duffman955]

yo are you the same Duff on realgm? lol

I'm the real Duffman,

But I don't know what RealGM is

 

[barilko05]

Rookie President hires rookie GM hires rookie coach & gets rookie AGMs.

Actually, the only AGM he had with experience has been moved out of his role.

Not saying some of them didn't deserve a promotion but this is comical. I'd say why not hire a competent/experienced AGM but maybe he only wants guys beside him that are loyal and aren't a threat to him, didn't wanna hire his replacement or interim replacement?

Would you? The dumbest thing anyone in any position of authority can do is to hire a person who is competent and ambitious enough, not to mention experienced, to be considered their immediate replacement. It's BIZ 101 that you NEVER do that, if you value your job. Of course, in 99.9 per cent of cases, you also don't have a million slobbering internet trolls who think they can do a better job than you analyzing and criticizing every move you make. I'm not saying you are one of those, btw. Just making a point.

 

[McSnypsky]

Leafs also hired a new R&D person.

HAHA I first glanced at this and was like what? Jame Reimer is a an analyst now? oh my... might need to take a break from HF

 

[Stephen]

I also think that Dubas was something of a snake oil salesman when he sat down with Shanahan oh many years ago.

I think there is a big factor where Shanahan, a career hockey man who likely (though admittedly I can't be certain) wasn't exactly a mathematical genius. In walks in a young, confident kid who started throwing around equations and numbers to support existing or emerging ideas within the community (i.e. puck possession is critical), going beyond the X's and O's on a whiteboard.

I think Shanahan bought in, partially because of his own hubris. He's openly admitted that sitting down with Dubas was meant to be an hour long conversation to give him his due, but ended up being a full day endeavour, ordering lunch, etc.

To me, that seems odd. Even when I interview someone and am blow away but what they have to say, even at high-level positions, I'll give them two hours instead of one, but more screams "I'm falling under your spell, and buying what you're selling."

I’m the same age as Dubas and I actually don’t find him all that interesting. I’m super attracted to the craft of GM’ing and all the building and insights and succession planning and asset management and people management involved, with all the drama and competition associated. I find his tendency to talk about making bets, playing odds and the simulation mentality to really miss the unquantifiable craft that does into building special, cup winning teams. I want to learn from the old veterans and would be a lot more interested in what Shanny actually things or what Wickenheiser is bringing to the table.

 

[sxvnert]

LOL... ok, this is just ridiculous. They're not AGM's. This is just PR-based nonsense. If their job doesn't change, the title shouldn't change.

Free raises for everyone! And far be it from Kyle not to have a woman AGM; she's the most qualified of the bunch without question, but it just dilutes things to have it as part of a mass promotion.

Lots of lobster and Dom Perignon in the boardroom at lunch today!

Exactly what it is. Maybe Dubas should concern himself with actually improving this teams chances in the playoffs vs securing his legacy in the industry.

 

[Stephen]

Would you? The dumbest thing anyone in any position of authority can do is to hire a person who is competent and ambitious enough, not to mention experienced, to be considered their immediate replacement. It's BIZ 101 that you NEVER do that, if you value your job. Of course, in 99.9 per cent of cases, you also don't have a million slobbering internet trolls who think they can do a better job than you analyzing and criticizing every move you make. I'm not saying you are one of those, btw. Just making a point.

I dunno. They say to surround yourself with the best minds, but the Dubas regime seems to really avoid bringing in anybody who has done it before or has veteran experience as an executive in the game.

 

[Go4soda]

BREAKING NEWS:

Lester down at Concession Stand C has been promoted to AGM of Chicken Tenders.

only 1 AGM of chicken tenders??

 

[Ciao]

I had a high school teacher who has a M.D. in Physics who would get pissed if he wasn't referred to as Dr. It takes a lot of time and dedication to get an M.D., and it shows a sign of respect and acknowledgement for those that have gone through the process. And when I say a high school teacher, this guy taught at a high school of less than 300 students, so it's not like a school in Toronto where 1 class could be 300 big.

I've never heard of an M.D. in physics.

Usually the post-graduate degree is a Ph.D.

A lot of my friends that hold Ph.D.'s don't want to be called "Dr.", as is sounds too pretentious. However, all of my friends who are M.D.'s go by "Dr." in their professional lives.

 

[Ciao]

I also think that Dubas was something of a snake oil salesman when he sat down with Shanahan oh many years ago.

I think there is a big factor where Shanahan, a career hockey man who likely (though admittedly I can't be certain) wasn't exactly a mathematical genius. In walks in a young, confident kid who started throwing around equations and numbers to support existing or emerging ideas within the community (i.e. puck possession is critical), going beyond the X's and O's on a whiteboard.

I think Shanahan bought in, partially because of his own hubris. He's openly admitted that sitting down with Dubas was meant to be an hour long conversation to give him his due, but ended up being a full day endeavour, ordering lunch, etc.

To me, that seems odd. Even when I interview someone and am blow away but what they have to say, even at high-level positions, I'll give them two hours instead of one, but more screams "I'm falling under your spell, and buying what you're selling."

I suspect you have a rather active imagination, because I doubt that you really know what Shanahan and Dubas discussed then or now.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[thinkblue]

He's also reporting Greg harden isn't listed on the coaching page anymore

 

[TribalPhoenix]

I suspect you have a rather active imagination, because I doubt that you really know what Shanahan and Dubas discussed then or now.

Oh it's purely speculative, but that's what Shanahan has said in the past - he decided to meet with Dubas for an hour out of consideration, but it ended up being an all day affair where they had lunch brought in. He's openly stated that Kyle's use of analytics and way of looking at the game was completely different than what he was used to.

 

[kerk]

article with all the changes he's tweeted about today: Leafs hire former NHLer Matt Moulson as a scout among multiple changes

 

[TribalPhoenix]

only 1 AGM of chicken tenders??

Just chicken tenders.

Dreger is reporting that Stanley will be AGM of plum sauce, while Fred has been promoted to AGM of plastic cutlery.

 

[fancy lad]

I've never heard of an M.D. in physics.

Usually the post-graduate degree is a Ph.D.

A lot of my friends that hold Ph.D.'s don't want to be called "Dr.", as is sounds too pretentious. However, all of my friends who are M.D.'s go by "Dr." in their professional lives.

Yes it makes sense if they are practicing doctors, but in the case of Wickenheiser it would seem weird to call her Dr. Wichenheiser in her current professional setting. which i am sure dubas and team will not do.

To tell the truth i take back my initial comment of criticism of this whole dr. thing. i'm sure the leafs intentions are good.

 

[Lightsol]

what exactly did Brian Burke or Dave Nonis or Lou Lamorello accomplish here? It's not a Rookie vs Veteran thing.

Also if Richard Peddie's dumbass would have just listened to JFJ we wouldn't have had a shit show. JFJ wanted to rebuild. Peddie and MLSE wanted to compete and forced a bunch of moves and trades during JFJ's time.

Also ignores that with the exception of that period in the 80's where the only job requirement for Leaf GM was "willing to work for peanuts", the Leafs have only ever had experienced management. This is one of the first times I can remember where the Leafs have actually tried developing their own management team rather than just buying someone else's.

 

[Ciao]

Yes it makes sense if they are practicing doctors, but in the case of Wickenheiser it would seem weird to call her Dr. Wichenheiser in her current professional setting. which i am sure dubas and team will not do.

To tell the truth i take back my initial comment of criticism of this whole dr. thing. i'm sure the leafs intentions are good.

In truth, it seems her CPSO membership will expire if she's not working full-time in a residency at U of T this fall, but she will still be a fully qualified medical graduate.

I don't really expect she will go by Dr. Hayley Wickenheiser any more than the federal Minister Carolyn Bennett, who is one of my wife's former family physicians, goes by Dr. Carolyn Bennett -- or any one of the other physicians who now work in a different field.

However, I do think it was polite of the Leafs to draw attention to her exceptional professional training. Maybe she will jump in when someone has heart attack if and when the Leafs actually win a playoff round -- or the Stanley Cup!

 

[The Masters]

 

[capfit9]

Interesting to note, the day they announce the new goaltending coach a bunch of speculation floating around local radio that they might start the season with Mrazek & Kallgren or Woll. Which is exactly what I said they might do the day they fired Briere. It now seems to be all about PR for this upper management because they know they screwed themselves with the roster.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

I've never heard of an M.D. in physics.

Usually the post-graduate degree is a Ph.D.

A lot of my friends that hold Ph.D.'s don't want to be called "Dr.", as is sounds too pretentious. However, all of my friends who are M.D.'s go by "Dr." in their professional lives.

Ya it was a ph.d in physics, it's been a long time since high school

 

[Stephen]

But isn’t Wickenheiser an actual medical doctor? She’s quite an impressive human overall.

 

[cupcrazyman]

It's DOCTOR Wickenheiser Dubas & she shall be addressed as such !