Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
As long as we keep Buch-Kyrou-Thomas-Snuggy
Is it time for a rebuild ?
- Thread starter Ridge1982
- Start date
Reality Czech
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- Apr 17, 2017
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I'd like to bring back at least 1 of Barbie or Acciari, depending on what happens with ROR and other potential free agents. I might learn towards Acciari if he would cost less, but Barbie is almost the perfect 3C swiss army knife player. Not sure how high I would go with him in terms of salary though.
How can you advocate for trading someone that's been here for like a decade and was a key component of our cup win while in every other thread you incessantly whine about losing players that give the team character?
Thallis
No half measures
I am always just so confused about when people talk about Barbashev being a key component on the cup win. Dude had 6 points, 44% xGF, equal penalties drawn and taken, played under 15 minutes in 20/25 games. The only consequential point he got was a deflection off Nyquist past Martin Jones in Game 4 vs San Jose. Like what's the bar here? At that point everyone who didn't get healthy scratched is a key component of the cup win.
I mean think of the heavy lifting ROR did during that cup run. Do you think he would have been able to do that if our 4th line that had Barbie/Steen and Sunny were not able to shut down the other teams top line? That's a seriously key component that stands completely independent of points. Championships are won with defense and we had 2 lines that were playing the other teams most potent offense to a near standstill.
Thallis
No half measures
They didn't shut anything down though, they had the worst outcomes on the team in terms of chance quality in the defensive zone. Steen, Barbashev, and Fabbri were the bottom 3 in terms of xGA/60 on that run and it wasn't really all that close. Sunqvist was good, sure, but we already traded him
i think we sometimes associate guys who hit a lot with good defense, but as you suggest it's not the same. barbie was great at being physical on forecheck during Cup run, but that was about it. He has always had bad defensive metrics.
LGB
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- Feb 4, 2019
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Blues 25-26 roster outline
x - Thomas (26) - Snuggerud (21)
Bolduc (22) - x - Kyrou (27)
Neighbours (23) - Schenn (34) - x
Saad (33) - x - x
x - Faulk (33)
Leddy (34) - Parayko (32)
Krug (34) - x
Buchnevich (30) UFA going into this season. Parayko is the only player left with full trade protection. This is the year that I’d think our top 3 prospects will be ready to be big contributors. If we want to be ready to contend we need to find a 2C and overhaul the defensive corps.
x - Thomas (26) - Snuggerud (21)
Bolduc (22) - x - Kyrou (27)
Neighbours (23) - Schenn (34) - x
Saad (33) - x - x
x - Faulk (33)
Leddy (34) - Parayko (32)
Krug (34) - x
Buchnevich (30) UFA going into this season. Parayko is the only player left with full trade protection. This is the year that I’d think our top 3 prospects will be ready to be big contributors. If we want to be ready to contend we need to find a 2C and overhaul the defensive corps.
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- Feb 12, 2008
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Well of course he's going to be the best player. We are getting Bedard duh
LGB
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He's probably our 4C. Didn't want to project a 4th line because who knows. Just have Saad there because he's already under contract.
LogosBlue
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- May 16, 2018
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Well, i think last night seals the deal. We get destroyed by Arizona and the Blackhawks, Ducks win. Not winning games against weak teams. Sounds like full on rebuild mode to me.
DA was going to flip the FA's at the trade deadline anyway but if i'm making the decisions, i move out every expensive contract i can at this point with the exception of a few.
The Blues need to pick up at least (3) 1st's, (3) 2nd's and a handfull of lesser picks/prospects at this trade deadline. A scattering of picks this year and next would be nice.
DA was going to flip the FA's at the trade deadline anyway but if i'm making the decisions, i move out every expensive contract i can at this point with the exception of a few.
The Blues need to pick up at least (3) 1st's, (3) 2nd's and a handfull of lesser picks/prospects at this trade deadline. A scattering of picks this year and next would be nice.
Yean I doubt we are getting 3 firsts and 3 seconds. I think our max is 1-2 firsts plus a 2nd plus some mid round picks and prospects. I don't think any big salary contracts with term will get moved out at this tdl. Maybe in the offseason but not right now
LogosBlue
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- May 16, 2018
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Your right about term contract w/ salary. Just about everyone is up against the cap and that effects what you can do at the TDL. I wouldn't be surprised if one of these contracts are moved, bringing back another asset with term and a pick.
taylord22
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- Mar 30, 2009
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I think this is accurate. However, I also think hitting becomes far more important in the playoffs because it creates time. One of the few plays in hockey outside of a DZ blue-line pin that does. That line created a lot of time and excelled at making small plays on the heels of hits, hesitation, and pins.
I don't think we'll ever be fortunate enough to see that brand of "viking defense" again (due to our rebuild, and the NHL rapidly becoming less physical). The rangy, +level skating D is what fueled that line -and others- ability to play such a high-risk/high-reward defense. That said, we've seen Barbashev do well in both that role, and in offensive roles. And perhaps more than any other player in recent memory, he's been asked to change roles FREQUENTLY.
My reason for wanting to hold onto him -while acknowledging his overall defensive game is overblown- is that he's a good compliment to Schenn, moving forward. And I like the idea of keeping him around while players like Alexandrov/Robertson/Kaskimaki are breaking through. I would agree with the argument that we can find similar players to serve those roles in FA, but if Barbashev's cost is looking only reasonably higher, I'd prefer to just pay/keep him.
Personally, I'd like to see him in an established net-front role — particularly on the PP. His hand-eye coordination stands out, but for whatever reason — and maybe/probably there are legit ones — he hasn't been used in that role.
Majorityof1
Registered User
We are not going full rebuild. We can't as we have too many vets signed for too long. Teams aren't taking on those contracts., and it would be foolish to pay to move them out right before a rebuild.
Yes, we lost to the Yotes, but so have Vegas, Detroit, Colorado and the Leafs in the past few weeks. They are playoff teams. We are without ROR and Buchnevich, 2 of our better forwards. We lost Thomas about halfway through the game, arguably our best forward. Tarasenko is just back from an injury and still rusty.
We need to get value for our UFAs while we can. Fix our coaching staff in the off-season, find a top 4 D who can play good defense, and sign a couple middle 6 forwards to help offset ROR and Tarasenko until our prospects are ready. That doesn't need a rebuild to happen.
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
A big part of the problem with moving forward is the "but he helped us win a cup" mentality. That was four years ago and we've been downhill ever since. I would prefer to win another cup. It's time to let go of those guys you hold so dear and make decisions out of what will improve the team. Ask Patty Maroon if he regrets being let go so he could win another cup. This is a business. If we don't treat it as such then the on ice product will look like this every single season.
LogosBlue
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Is that all we need to do? Sounds like that adds up to a pretty good overhaul. Plus, you make that many changes guys will wanna jump ship (especially the high paid guys who want to compete for a cup now)
Majorityof1
Registered User
It is definitely a lot, but it is less than a rebuild. A rebuild involves selling off all of our older guys, being bad for several years and stocking up high draft picks. Then after 3-4 years of finishing bottom 5 in the league, being mediocre for a few more while those picks learn the ropes. Do all that and there is no guarantee it works out.
My major retool can be done in a couple seasons. Focus on gettin this years pick as high as possible and then trading our UFAs for some near ready prospects.
As for guys wanting to jump ship....so what? Our vets are signed longer term. We can sell them on a 2-3 year retool if we have a plan. And if we can't sell them on it, then sell them on the fact they have to play well enough that teams want to trade for them. Tarasenko wanted a trade, We offered him to Seattle for free. They said no thanks and it motivated him to play well for us.
DA doesn't buy into the rebuild scheme. His moves are always set up to have the contracts ladder. It's kind of like a retirement plan. The downside is that you don't give the fanbase what they want when they want to give the moon to a guy like AP, or Backes, etc. The upside is that you have a very long cup window. However, like everything, the window eventually ends. That's where we are right now and the only way to fix it is to trade the guys who have value so that you can start again. This season is the pivot point.
Celtic Note
Living the dream
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I guess I don’t understand why we can’t rebuild with all the vets. They are not getting better. In fact they likely get worse. So holding onto them just means we aren’t getting assets for them, but it doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be drafting high with what we have. Now, it could be a pretty long rebuild, but what rebuild isn’t?
If there are concerns with team finance, I can see that.
But, old players tend to get injured and go on LTIR or retire with odd issues like equipment itch, so I am sure there are a couple get out of jail free cards like we have seen other organizations use. Other teams need overpaid players to reach the cap floor.
A retool on the other hand seems tricky with those contracts without a few lucky trades and some salary cap growth. A recession might not help that out.
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Majorityof1
Registered User
I don't think the vets are that bad yet. We have played without Vladdy and RoR for large stretches and were still competitive. You cannot tank playing .500 hockey, or even .425. You need to play .325-.350 hockey. I don't think a team with Thomas, Kyrou. Buchnevich, Schenn, Saad, Faulk and Payako can be that bad.
Kyrou and Buchnevich are on an 82 point season pace, Thomas is on a 73 pace, Schenn 60 pt pace. Look at the teams truly vying for Bedard and tell me who has that much talent. Chicago has Kane who is playing poorly but is truly awful after him and maybe Domi and Jones. Anaheim has Zegras, Terry and Fowler on D. None of which are scoring at Thomas' pace, much less Kyrou's. Arizona has Keller, Schmaltz and Chychrun as their best 3. San Jose has Karlsson, Meier and Hertl, Couture and then nobody. Our core minus all the UFAs is better than any of them.
Our main problem right now is not those veterans but the x's and o's schemes we are utilizing. Even if we tank, we need to fix that asap. Do we want to instill that kind of awful hockey in our young guys we draft for the rebuild? Once we fix the defensive x's and o's, will our vets be as bad as they have been? Once we fix our D, will Binnington?
So its not only an issue of not having the finances to suffer exteneded poor play. That's part of it. But can we be that bad with the quality of all our solid players that are signed to long term contracts?
