Is it time for a rebuild ?

[Ridge1982]

I say yes. The defense will be a sieve all year long, O’Reilly and Vova are getting long in the tooth, and Kyrou will continue to be lazy after getting a fat contract.

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[Reality Czech]

You just knew this thread was coming, so many fair weather fans in this town.

If the Blues continue to suck then maybe they do trade key UFAs at the deadline but it's kind of lame how quickly some of you lose all hope. The Penguins also have a 4-game losing streak, wonder if their fans have given up hope as quickly as ours have.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

If Chief can turn things around in November I say no. If not, then yes. Light the fuse.

 

[Mike Liut]

If we are still sucking by the TDL, then I’d move ROR, Tarasenko and Barbs

 

[Blueston]

It’s like some of y’all have never seen a little slump before. IF we still suck in a couple months I would expect significant changes, but seems far more likely that we get our heads out of arses and turn season around.

 

[bleedblue1223]

No, but also what does a rebuild even mean? I think people are simply learning the impact of having your best 2 defensive wingers out, and how that impacts the defensive side of things, and also when they are big contributors offensively, it's a double impact.

As far as a traditional rebuild, no that would be stupid, even if this season ends up as a failure and we trade Tarasenko at the deadline. We'd just need a retool, and with the cap increasing soon, that'll be pretty easy to do.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

How are you going to rebuild?

Schenn signed another 6 years.

Saad signed another 4 years.

Parayko signed another 8 years.

Faulk signed another 5 years.

Krug signed another 5 years.

Leddy signed another 4 years.

Binnington signed another 5 years.

You can’t rebuild.

You can trade off ROR and Tarasenko and Barbashev at the deadline but even then, you still have 40 million dollars tied up in 29+ year old players for the next half decade

 

[BrokenFace]

I'm glad Army hasn't given up on Kyrou as quickly as some of the people around here. Anyway, I could see this year being like 2018 at the TDL when we traded Stastny even though we were in a playoff spot. IIRC we had three straight games vs the Jets and Preds, 2 of our likely opponents in the first or second round, and we looked like we couldn't compete with them. So we traded pending UFA Stastny to look towards the future even though we didn't rebuild. We should do the same this year with our UFAs if we are in a playoff spot but just don't look like we can compete with the real contenders.

I don't think a lot of people on HF know what a rebuild really means. I don't even know what that would look like for a team with the contracts the Blues have.

 

[Majorityof1]

You rebuild when you are horrible. Mediocrity is more our problem. We are a mediocre team in a slump, which may look horrible, but its for the short term. We have to many good players signed too long, as has been pointed out, to rebuild.

I wouldn't mind a retool so much, I think we need to improve our D somehow. That may entail moving expiring assets for futures this year, and then moving those assets for nearer term help that fits in our teams window. So maybe flip what we get for RoR and Vladdy on Chycrun or Sanheim/Provorov, and then sign Horvat and a winger, move Krug for whatever. I love RoR and Tarasenko. I don't want to see either go, but we have to get a better D core and we need money to do it.

 

[MissouriMook]

Has anyone who thinks it is time for a rebuild actually looked at the standings? Dallas and Winnipeg are 2 games over .500, Chicago is a game over, Colorado and Minnesota are .500, we're a game under, Nashville is 2 games under and Arizona is 3 games under. We're throwing in the towel after 7 games?

 

[BlueDream]

Has anyone who thinks it is time for a rebuild actually looked at the standings? Dallas and Winnipeg are 2 games over .500, Chicago is a game over, Colorado and Minnesota are .500, we're a game under, Nashville is 2 games under and Arizona is 3 games under. We're throwing in the towel after 7 games?

View attachment 601338

This. Really the only great teams who are running the league so far are Boston and Vegas.

Everyone else is basically treading water.

 

[Spektre]

A complete rebuild isn't possible due to already stated contract situations on the team. Army can't trade 10 players. There are some big decisions to make. ROR & Tarasenko are the obvious ones.

Army surely has an idea of what the ask is from ROR's camp and he probably has a good idea if a deal can be worked out. Everyone knows Tarasenko wants out. Does Army trade 91 at the TDL no matter where the team is at in the standings? Does he keep him and take his chances in the playoffs (if the team is in a playoff position).

A rebuild is out of the question. Having possibly 3 first round picks in a very deep draft certainly would not be the worst possible outcome since Tarasenko is gone after this season anyway.

 

[stl76]

 

[thedustman]

I'm still recovering from celebrating our cup win four games ago

 

[Chojin]

This team can't rebuild. Buckle up for years of being a bubble team.

 

[Stealth JD]

They need to retool and get some youth in the system. Are they one of the best-8 teams in the West? Yeah...probably. But only barely if they are, and likely because there are some pretty terrible teams in the West (which unfortunately may mask some of the short-comings this roster already has). Squeaking into the playoffs and immediately getting waxed shouldn't be the objective, but I'm not sure if the upside is much higher than that. You can't be all-in every year, and if this team doesn't lock itself firmly into a playoff spot by mid-January I fully expect Army to be a seller.

It's shocking how thouroughly the defensive corps have been dismantled since the Cup squad. Beyond unfathomable how Army so quickly saw a team strength turn into a glaring weakness.

 

[Mike Liut]

We need more physicality on the team. Ass kickers, but not necessarily fighters. I loved the way the Preds played the other night.

 

[TurgPavs]

You have to start wondering about ROR and looking at UFA next summer.
ROR will turn 32 in Jan.
Tarasenko will turn 31 in Dec.
Barbie will turn 27 in Dec.

ROR has played in 945 regular season and 64 playoff games, Total 1009, and let's be clear, he plays tough minutes.
Tarasenko has played in 613 regular season and 90 playoff games. Total 703
Barby has played 358 regular season and 50 playoff games. Total 408

From October 2021 until current, regular season games
ROR 85 games played .69 points per game
Tarasenko 82 games played 1.09 points per game
Barbie 88 games played .69 points per game

Who do you bring back if any?
ROR was an absolute freak in the playoffs last year scoring 12 points to Tarasenko's 9. The Colorado series was a perfect example of the type of gritty play ROR has brought.
The questions is how much longer can he bring it?

For me ROR has always reminded me of Bobby Holik when he centered the old "Crash Line" in NJ. Holik retired after 1300+ games, and his last 3-4 years where tough to watch.
There is only a handful of centers that are active with over 1000 games played, which ROR will hit early next year. One of those players is Paul Stastny. Since the beginning of last season, ROR .69 points per game, Stastny .59 PPG. Stastny has a better FO% as well.

ROR clearly elevated his game in the postseason, however you cant look past Staz making 1.5 million this season, which while not the saem player right now, ROR is trending into that reduced roll.

 

[GoldenSeal]

We’re missing pieces of the puzzle, it’s that simple.

Also, Army’s style of management might be causing serious division among the ranks and that might be the bigger problem. The team is acting like they’re disgruntled and bought out. You simply don’t go around fixing what isn’t broken.

 

[Blueston]

You have to start wondering about ROR and looking at UFA next summer.
ROR will turn 32 in Jan.
Tarasenko will turn 31 in Dec.
Barbie will turn 27 in Dec.

ROR has played in 945 regular season and 64 playoff games, Total 1009, and let's be clear, he plays tough minutes.
Tarasenko has played in 613 regular season and 90 playoff games. Total 703
Barby has played 358 regular season and 50 playoff games. Total 408

From October 2021 until current, regular season games
ROR 85 games played .69 points per game
Tarasenko 82 games played 1.09 points per game
Barbie 88 games played .69 points per game

Who do you bring back if any?
ROR was an absolute freak in the playoffs last year scoring 12 points to Tarasenko's 9. The Colorado series was a perfect example of the type of gritty play ROR has brought.
The questions is how much longer can he bring it?

For me ROR has always reminded me of Bobby Holik when he centered the old "Crash Line" in NJ. Holik retired after 1300+ games, and his last 3-4 years where tough to watch.
There is only a handful of centers that are active with over 1000 games played, which ROR will hit early next year. One of those players is Paul Stastny. Since the beginning of last season, ROR .69 points per game, Stastny .59 PPG. Stastny has a better FO% as well.

ROR clearly elevated his game in the postseason, however you cant look past Staz making 1.5 million this season, which while not the saem player right now, ROR is trending into that reduced roll.

As you smartly laid out, ROR is tricky because he is still key part of team but need to expect that the next 240 games are likely much worse than the last 240. So he needs to be signed to lower number than he is at now. And that may be hard pill for him to swallow.

This is why Army is unlikely to give up on this season- we are likely losing major contributors after this year and will force us to take a step back. If we can plug holes on D (and maybe 3rd line) to strenghten us for 1 more bite at the apple- and we gave Colorado more trouble than anyone last year so its not unreasonable to think that we have another gear- before we transition to next phase I expect he will make every to do so.

 

[Ridge1982]

They need to retool and get some youth in the system. Are they one of the best-8 teams in the West? Yeah...probably. But only barely if they are, and likely because there are some pretty terrible teams in the West (which unfortunately may mask some of the short-comings this roster already has). Squeaking into the playoffs and immediately getting waxed shouldn't be the objective, but I'm not sure if the upside is much higher than that. You can't be all-in every year, and if this team doesn't lock itself firmly into a playoff spot by mid-January I fully expect Army to be a seller.

It's shocking how thouroughly the defensive corps have been dismantled since the Cup squad. Beyond unfathomable how Army so quickly saw a team strength turn into a glaring weakness.

I used to be a fan of his, but no longer. He needs to go.

 

[BlueOil]

i mean, what team doesn't rebuild after every losing streak in the season?

 

[TruBlu]

I think a retool is going to be forced whether we want it to or not. If we're outside looking in at the TDL then we'll most surely be shopping Tank to a team looking for some scoring depth in the playoffs and ROR to a team looking to fill an injury in the middle. If we do end up in the playoffs, we're not going to be anywhere in the upper tier of favored teams to win and, at best, make a trip to the second round. Once the season is over we know Tank is gone...and probably ROR as well. The unfortunate thing about constantly building playoff capable teams is you eventually end up where we are now; a thin prospect pool with none of them being A tier quality. The upside is that you're always in the hunt. Given my preference, I prefer to have a long window of opportunity to compete. I do think we're on the downward slope of our window though. Sometime in the next few years we are going to have to start building the cupboard back up.

 

[Xerloris]

I used to be a fan of his, but no longer. He needs to go.

I want to see some answers from you on these points.

Eddy for Faulk, good or bad?
Losing Dunn in the expansion draft, how was it Armstrongs fault?
Jbo almost dying, how was this Armstrongs fault?
The only shit you're going to bring up is Pietrangelo leaving and if you think he fixes any of the current problems you're a f***ing fool and not a single person should ever listen to shit you ever have to say.

 

[542365]

I don't think there is any real way to rebuild given our contract situation, but if this mess continues all year I think you definitely have to move ROR, Tarasenko, and Barbie at the deadline. Getting an extra first in this ridiculous draft could really turn things around quickly. I still see us as a bubble team that will likely make the playoffs barring a ton of injuries, but I can't see any way we beat the best of the West in a playoff series. At that point, why push hard just to get knocked out early and pick in the 20s when we could move pieces, pick a couple times in the middle of the first, and really improve the quality of our prospect pool, which is currently thin and weak.