Is it time for a rebuild ?

[BlueSeal]

No, but it's also far too early to declare that letting Perron go was the wrong choice. Sure it's easy to say right now it was a mistake, but you act like it's a fact rather than just your opinion. Time will tell but I don't think having Perron on the team right now would solve our issues.

Given DP’s history with us, We know it’s a fact.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

We said the same thing in 2018 before things turned around in 2019 and we won the cup. Things can change and you don't always have to fire/trade people for it to happen.

They literally had to fire Yeo and bench (fire) Allen to turn things around though......

 

[Xerloris]

They literally had to fire Yeo and bench (fire) Allen to turn things around though......

They literally didn't. Things did not turn around after the Yeo firing for several more months and benching Allen had nothing to do with saying "f*** Allen" and everything to do with just riding a hot goalie.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

No HEART, no SOUL

We are roadkill

 

[Reality Czech]

Given DP’s history with us, We know it’s a fact.

No, it's not unless you think Perron being here would magically have this team in first place. It can only be declared a mistake once we see what the season looks like in retrospect. You don't get to make that call 8 games into the season, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Speaking of Armstrong's heart, wouldn't it be nice if the players showed some on the ice? Maybe some of you who are calling for a retool/rebuild will get your wish.

 

[Ridge1982]

I want to see some answers from you on these points.

Eddy for Faulk, good or bad?
Losing Dunn in the expansion draft, how was it Armstrongs fault?
Jbo almost dying, how was this Armstrongs fault?
The only shit you're going to bring up is Pietrangelo leaving and if you think he fixes any of the current problems you're a f***ing fool and not a single person should ever listen to shit you ever have to say.

Perron leaving is what did it for me. You don’t tinker with club chemistry.

 

[BrokenFace]

Luckily the TDL is still far away. These players will show us if it's time for a rebuild or reload by then.

If having Perron was the only thing keeping us competitive, then this team wasn't going to go far anyway.

 

[PJJJP]

If our team turns to garbage because of 1 player, then we were never a great team in the first place and it was all a mirage. Some of the overactions to the start of the season are hilariously bad

 

[PocketNines]

They literally didn't. Things did not turn around after the Yeo firing for several more months and benching Allen had nothing to do with saying "f*** Allen" and everything to do with just riding a hot goalie.

The Blues absolutely had to get Jake Allen out of the way, he was laying waste to the franchise. And Yeo had to go, he was hapless.

 

[The Note]

Let me preface this by saying: I do think team cohesion and chemistry matters and does get undersold by the analytics/advanced metrics crowd (which I would consider myself a part of to a degree). Everyone pulling on the rope and buying-in, to borrow a favorite Hitchism, clearly matters. I also believe that the general vibes around a team are a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Is the team winning because the locker room is in such a good spot, or are the vibes so good in the locker room because they're winning so much? It all feeds into it.

Having said that, I think that it is easy to handwave away larger issues by attributing poor play to a lack of "effort" "heart". Go into any GDT - Blues or otherwise - where a team is playing poorly and you are sure to see posts calling the team lazy, they don't want it enough, etc. It's an easy first reaction that requires no analysis and basically cannot be refuted. This isn't to say that a team never comes out flat, or that they never look like they'd rather be anywhere else than playing, like, the Blue Jackets on a random Tuesday in February. It's a long season and that will happen, and I think to some degree, particularly in the condensed schedule, we saw fatigue impact hustle/effort plays. It seems right now a combination of things are happening in that guys are not executing, which I have more faith in coming around, and that there are larger, scheme-related issues - particularly in the defensive zone (@Majorityof1 had a good post about this in some thread, but I can't find it rn). The defensive scheme is either designed in a way that is not maximizing the - admittedly flawed - group currently here or the players are not executing it. Either way, the results are ugly. Those scheme and personnel issues are the more concerning bit and the ones that are going to be harder to fix. This is generally the other side of the "death of 1,000 cuts" mentality. There is no singular talent(s) in this group that can go win you a game when things are going poorly. I was/am lower on this roster than most here seemed to be, but even I thought they'd still pretty comfortably make the playoffs. There is still plenty of time, though having said that, you can't bake in too many 5+ game losing streaks into the season, regardless of when they occur. I don't think they will be this bad for the whole year but I think there is enough reason to be concerned about a team that wasn't great 5-on-5 last year and shot a full percentage point better than the next best team which relies heavily on a group of pricey veterans that are all another year older looking totally lost out there for big stretches.

And, just as a final note, David Perron is one of my favorite Blues ever. I still have one of those alternate jerseys with the big circular crest w/ Perron on the back from his first stint. I wish he were on the roster still. But, he signed with the Red Wings on July 13th. This team had all of UFA, training camp and preseason to most effectively process/manage/offset his loss. If it is a contributing factor to the team's play heading into November then, yes, blow it all up and save folks a lot of time and money.

 

[TruBlu]

The Blues absolutely had to get Jake Allen out of the way, he was laying waste to the franchise. And Yeo had to go, he was hapless.

Jake Allen's numbers have been pretty close to Binny's numbers the last two seasons...all while playing behind a much worse defensive team than the Blues. As a matter of fact, Jake's save percentage is better than Binny's last year and so far this year. If you think Allen was the problem then you must also think Binny is a problem now.

 

[PocketNines]

Jake Allen's numbers have been pretty close to Binny's numbers the last two seasons...all while playing behind a much worse defensive team than the Blues. As a matter of fact, Jake's save percentage is better than Binny's last year and so far this year. If you think Allen was the problem then you must also think Binny is a problem now.

Jake Allen – and this is an unassailable fact – was destroying a Cup caliber hockey team.

Anyone who thinks Binnington is undermining the team right now may have pudding where a brain should be.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Perron leaving is what did it for me. You don’t tinker with club chemistry.

If Perron leaving would cause this, then the Club needs some serious therapy because that’s just juvenile.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

If Perron leaving would cause this, then the Club needs some serious therapy because that’s just juvenile.

Yes, it is juvenile. And it also entirely part of the human condition.

O’Reilly is the one being the stinker.

It is Captain ROR who needs to get his attitude straight.

Chief is giving him time to get this under control, but, at some point, Coach is gonna need to take charge.

Right now he forcing ROR and Kyrou to work out their differences on the ice and it is killing the team.

 

[TruBlu]

Jake Allen's numbers have been pretty close to Binny's numbers the last two seasons...all while playing behind a much worse defensive team than the Blues. As a matter of fact, Jake's save percentage is better than Binny's last year and so far this year. If you think Allen was the problem then you must also think Binny is a problem now.

Numbers don't lie. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Stealth JD]

If Perron leaving would cause this, then the Club needs some serious therapy because that’s just juvenile.

It has an effect. As we saw all those years when Jackman or Brewer was asked to be the #1 and play over their head, trying to fill gaps at the top of the roster stretches the talent level too thin. Similarly, when you've got a surplus of talent it allows you to stack the bottom of the roster much deeper.

Losing Perron forces somebody else up onto ROR's wing. If Kyrou is now going to offset Perron's production, that's one thing. But who's going to replace Kyrou's production on the 2nd or 3rd line wing? But suddenly Kyrou is getting tougher matchup taking Perron's minutes and he's getting caved in. Compounding the problem, Barbashev and Neighbors are doing nothing to replace Kyrou's lost product on the third line, and collectively everybody is failing to take that one step forward to replace the single guy who left (Perron). When Buchnevich and Saad went down, the troubles grew even more obvious. The depth up front simply doesn't exist.

We've now got Toropchenko, Walker, Accairi, Brown, Pitlick, Neighbors dressing regularly and contributing minimally. The top-6 can't play the opposition to even, and the bottom-6 can't make up the difference because they're a collection of replacement-level players. Should Perron's loss be blamed for the entire collapse of the offense, and ROR aging before our eyes? Obviously not. But this club isn't nearly the same as last year's club.

 

[BlueOil]

Penguins also have a 4-game losing streak, wonder if their fans have given up hope as quickly as ours have.

it's 5 now and we can see, there's a main board thread going

 

[Reality Czech]

it's 5 now and we can see, there's a main board thread going

Ok? And?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Given the sacrilege on ice I've seen this far, someone needs to head down the Dirty Miss in a flaming canoe. The hockey gods demand it!

 

[BlueSeal]

Let me preface this by saying: I do think team cohesion and chemistry matters and does get undersold by the analytics/advanced metrics crowd (which I would consider myself a part of to a degree). Everyone pulling on the rope and buying-in, to borrow a favorite Hitchism, clearly matters. I also believe that the general vibes around a team are a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Is the team winning because the locker room is in such a good spot, or are the vibes so good in the locker room because they're winning so much? It all feeds into it.

Having said that, I think that it is easy to handwave away larger issues by attributing poor play to a lack of "effort" "heart". Go into any GDT - Blues or otherwise - where a team is playing poorly and you are sure to see posts calling the team lazy, they don't want it enough, etc. It's an easy first reaction that requires no analysis and basically cannot be refuted. This isn't to say that a team never comes out flat, or that they never look like they'd rather be anywhere else than playing, like, the Blue Jackets on a random Tuesday in February. It's a long season and that will happen, and I think to some degree, particularly in the condensed schedule, we saw fatigue impact hustle/effort plays. It seems right now a combination of things are happening in that guys are not executing, which I have more faith in coming around, and that there are larger, scheme-related issues - particularly in the defensive zone (@Majorityof1 had a good post about this in some thread, but I can't find it rn). The defensive scheme is either designed in a way that is not maximizing the - admittedly flawed - group currently here or the players are not executing it. Either way, the results are ugly. Those scheme and personnel issues are the more concerning bit and the ones that are going to be harder to fix. This is generally the other side of the "death of 1,000 cuts" mentality. There is no singular talent(s) in this group that can go win you a game when things are going poorly. I was/am lower on this roster than most here seemed to be, but even I thought they'd still pretty comfortably make the playoffs. There is still plenty of time, though having said that, you can't bake in too many 5+ game losing streaks into the season, regardless of when they occur. I don't think they will be this bad for the whole year but I think there is enough reason to be concerned about a team that wasn't great 5-on-5 last year and shot a full percentage point better than the next best team which relies heavily on a group of pricey veterans that are all another year older looking totally lost out there for big stretches.

And, just as a final note, David Perron is one of my favorite Blues ever. I still have one of those alternate jerseys with the big circular crest w/ Perron on the back from his first stint. I wish he were on the roster still. But, he signed with the Red Wings on July 13th. This team had all of UFA, training camp and preseason to most effectively process/manage/offset his loss. If it is a contributing factor to the team's play heading into November then, yes, blow it all up and save folks a lot of time and money.

Players are signing with other teams but why, especially if they’re signing deals we could have easily afforded.

Think about that for a minute.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Players are signing with other teams but why, especially if they’re signing deals we could have easily afforded.

Think about that for a minute.

One player signed with another team.

 

[BlueSeal]

One player signed with another team.

Since the Cup?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Let's call it the DP-Bozie Effect.

These were the last heart and soul guys after Steen retired. Schenn tries to fill these skates but he's just one guy.

This next generation is soft. I can't see Kyrou or Thomas playing tough and gritty like these vets.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Since the Cup?

If you’re referring to AP, then I don’t care.

Who else? Dunn? Anyone else?

Let's call it the DP-Bozie Effect.

These were the last heart and soul guys after Steen retired. Schenn tries to fill these skates but he's just one guy.

This next generation is soft. I can't see Kyrou or Thomas playing tough and gritty like these vets.

As long as the rest of the League is soft, it won't matter.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Let's call it the DP-Bozie Effect.

These were the last heart and soul guys after Steen retired. Schenn tries to fill these skates but he's just one guy.

This next generation is soft. I can't see Kyrou or Thomas playing tough and gritty like these vets.

Schenn and Faulk and Borts are all heart and soul guys. Bozo wasn’t. Great guy but his heart was no longer in it.