G Sebastian Cossa (2021, 15th, DET)

[Hen Kolland]

Nothing has gone backwards in his development?

So i guess im just imagining those 3 games he played in the AHL this year where he has a .783 Save % and got lit up for almost 6 goals a game?

MAybe backwards is the wrong word. but a development trajectory for a prospect ideally should be trending up, at the very least it should stay straight or stagnant Cossa's definitely plummeted down for a while there.

a 15th overall pick spending time in the ECHL definitely means something went off the rails , it doenst mean it cant get back on track though.

You seem to be under the impression that he was demoted to the ECHL because of poor AHL performance. That’s incorrect, as he was sent to Toledo before the season started.

Surely you can acknowledge that the overall quality of competition is higher in the ECHL than the WHL. And while the ECHL is better, it doesn’t mean that all the defensive lapses and lack of structure is fixed.

Moving into professional hockey while refining technical elements of the position is a recipe for poor performances. Those poor performances don’t imply that development is off its tracks or stunted or failed or regressed. It’s actually expected and welcomed adversity that can enhance development. If this were a prospect that just shows up and dominated competition regardless of level, we’d be talking about a potentially generational goaltending talent.

But he isn’t, and we aren’t. He’s just a big, raw goalie that had a long development curve but huge potential. This just comes with the territory

 

[Petes2424]

I don't think that, but I don't think you're being 100% honest about the ECHL. There's a reason it raises red flags for some, not many top prospects who end up in the ECHL end up hitting their potential.

That said, it's different for goalies; he's a young guy and playing time is important, so I don't think it's a big deal as long as he shows progress next season.

Well that’s the thing. It’s extremely different for goaltenders. If he was 23 still playing in the ECHL, there would be legit concerns. There’s not to many 20 year olds playing in the AHL consistently.

 

[rawraw]

Wings have had 9 2nd rders since Yzerman came .Walinder #1 potiential ?In the ECHL perhaps.

Have you ever seen him play? Not talking about youtube highlights.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Have you ever seen him play? Not talking about youtube highlights.

Yes World Jrs ,Vanilla prospect

 

[rawraw]

Yes World Jrs ,Vanilla prospect

I don't want to hijack this thread since it's about Cossa. But the Wallinder who played at the WJC and the one playing as a top pairing defenseman as a 20 year old in the SHL and scoring 0.53p/game are two different players. He's made huge strides in his development.

And Cossa's development is trending just fine. Development is very seldom linear, especially for goalies, as struggles are a part of the learning curve.

 

[brakeyawself]

This is so far a very big swing and a miss pick for Yzerman especially when Ohtmann was picked right after Cossa.

Forget Othmann even. As a Ranger fan, I'm extremely upset Drury took him over any of the many Centers that were still available. When I think we could have had Wyatt Johnston instead of CHytil as our 3c right now, kinda makes me pukish. Right now, if this Ranger team had any of Wyatt Johnston, Stanokoven, Svechkov, Raty etc... coming in now or soon to replace Chytil at 3c, I would be over the moon. Preferably Wyatt Johnston of course, who went like 7 picks later. But even Svetchkov seems worth waiting for. Not to take anything away from Othmann, he looks like he'll be a terrific powerfowrd/winger. But that's like the last thing the Ranges needed or need. What they did and do need is a young center with a high ceiling to replace Trochek sooner or later. Or before we signed Troch even, just as a future 2C. But either way, may teams wiffed on Johnston, who just looks like he should have been a top 10 pick based on current trajectory. But then my team seems obsessed with drafting gritty wingers over the highest end talent so it's too be expected at this point.

Anyway, sorry, not to get of topic completely. Yzerman's main mistake was being too clever. He saw something he liked in Coassa, fair. He saw something special even, maybe that wasn't or isn't apparent to everyone .Fair.
But that thinking outside the box also caused him to miss the obvious, that the pick there was Walstadt THEN and still is today. Cossa might turn out great. But even if he does, I just think Walstadt's ceiling is that much higher and thus far looks as close to a "sure thing" star goalie prospect as you can get. Right up there with the Askarov's, Knights etc... or really, even above them as most have him listed as the top goalie prospect still. And relative to Cossa, that was the case on draft day and according to most sources and projections, still is the case. He just overthought that one.

 

[GTA]

But sure, please continue to insist that you know more than the development staff of an NHL team. I’m sure you’re next in line for employment.

This is a bizarre appeal to authority. You seem personally offended by anyone questioning the almighty Red Wings and Cossa’s development.

 

[Hen Kolland]

This is a bizarre appeal to authority. You seem personally offended by anyone questioning the almighty Red Wings and Cossa’s development.

More so questioning anyone that comes in without having paid attention to Cossa since draft night and pops in to make an uninformed comment about how he must be in the process of busting based only on the league he’s playing in.

It has nothing to do with the Red Wings decision making process in isolation; it could be any team or any prospect. I happen to be a fan of this team and this is a prospect within the organization, so I have an inclination to follow and remain informed. Something you don’t get to enjoy the luxury of having to support your argument here.

 

[ricky0034]

the whole "first round Goalie in the ECHL" thing is a lot more overblown when you take into account that it's his D+2 and he would still be in Juniors if he was like a month younger

the last two Goalies drafted in the first round that weren't already playing in pro leagues in Europe spent their D+2s in College

 

[drw02]

Trending up for sure

 

[KapG]

Trending up for sure

Kid is on an absolute heater atm

 

[newfy]

Cossa might turn out great. But even if he does, I just think Walstadt's ceiling is that much higher and thus far looks as close to a "sure thing" star goalie prospect as you can get.

This wasnt the take on draft night and still really shouldnt be. Cossa was a lot more raw than Wallstedt on draft night but everyone was drooling over a 6'7 goalie with his athletic ability and the ceiling he had. On Bobs last draft ranking he said it was 6-4 in favour of Wallstedt. Its not a case of being clever, its a case of opinions being really split at the time and Yzerman gambling on ceiling over steadiness

 

[DTR]

Stopped 36/37 shots last night. Toledo is great, but Cossa is holding up his end of the bargain. Next year in GR I think we will start to get a better feel for what he ultimately becomes.

 

[Bfan14]

This is so far a very big swing and a miss pick for Yzerman especially when Ohtmann was picked right after Cossa.

Cossa may look like a bad pick at this point but it sure at hell isn't because Othmann was picked right after him

 

[Bfan14]

Wings have had 9 2nd rders since Yzerman came .Walinder #1 potiential ?In the ECHL perhaps.

Wallinder is one of the best D in the SHL at 20?

Wings have had 9 2nd rders since Yzerman came .Walinder #1 potiential ?In the ECHL perhaps.

Wallinder is one of the best D in the SHL at 20

 

[Chainshot]

the whole "first round Goalie in the ECHL" thing is a lot more overblown when you take into account that it's his D+2 and he would still be in Juniors if he was like a month younger

the last two Goalies drafted in the first round that weren't already playing in pro leagues in Europe spent their D+2s in College

Tenders need work and the ECHL is a way to get that. The list of quality starters who've gone through the Coast is way larger than I think most people realize - Jonathan Quick, Jaro Halak, Marty Biron, Thomas Vokoun all come to mind immediately - just so the player is getting steady work in game situations. It should come as no surprise that Cossa is starting to put it together and it wouldn't surprise that he moves up a level and has similar success, then graduates to the pros.

 

[brakeyawself]

This wasnt the take on draft night and still really shouldnt be. Cossa was a lot more raw than Wallstedt on draft night but everyone was drooling over a 6'7 goalie with his athletic ability and the ceiling he had. On Bobs last draft ranking he said it was 6-4 in favour of Wallstedt. Its not a case of being clever, its a case of opinions being really split at the time and Yzerman gambling on ceiling over steadiness

Not sure who you were listening to/watching, but the predominant take leading up to the draft was that Wallstedt was a generational type goalie prospect on par with the best we've seen in recent years. And that Cossa was only, in the late hour, entering the conversation due to his raw attributes mostly. And that didn't change on draft night or after, regardless of what a handful of heterodox analysts and pundits stated..And that can often be hyperbole also, like with Lafreniere who was never a generational talent, but in Wallstedt's case, all signs pointed to it being wholly true. I'm sure there were some pundits that were putting Cossa's raw attributes ahead of Wallstedts superior talent and ability.


And yes, I do think it is a matter of being "too clever". Meaning, anyone putting Cossa above Wallstedt then or now, is being too clever and only fooling themselves. It can happen to the best of them.

But this one is clear, especially today, but leading up to the draft as well. It was only within days of the draft from what I remember that this hyperbole about Cossa started ramping up and people as you say, began drooling over his raw attributes. Which happens leading up to many drafts, NFL, NBA, no different. And every draft numerous such errors in judgement are made. Occasionally they work out of course, but more often than not, they don't.

Can compare this a bit to the upcoming NFL draft. Someone is going to play the lotto on Anthony Richardso nand pass on Young/Struod quite possibly. With his ceiling I am kind of expecting it to happen. And they could get extremely lucky and he could turn into probably the most complete athlete QB that has ever played the game. Or he might end up being what many are worried about, just a super athlete trying to play QB, like many before, who tend to fail or at least not to live up to expectations.

But that's what situations like that are, playing the lotto. When you have as close to a sure thing as possible in front of you, and you pass it up reaching for something that may never actually be there and is only in "potential" form. In the case of Wallstedt and Cossa however, I don't know if it's exactly like Richardson in respec to the actual ceiling of the players involved. Even though Cossa is taller and has the raw attributes, I still don't think he will ever be better than Wallkstedt as the difference between them, in terms of what is necessary for a goalie, is not nearly as wide as the difference in ceiling in the above NFL situation. But the comparison I think is sound otherwise.

Anyway, look I'm not saying Cossa is bad or that he will turn out a failure or anything. It's just that the odds are nowhere near as good as for Wallstedt and I don't think ultimately the ceiling is as high even. But guess we will have to wait and see. Ultimately, it comes down to this. The best Cossa could probably hope to be is as good as Wallstedt seems to be. So why take on risk when it doesn't seem probable the outcome would be superior? If you stand a 75% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice A, and you stand only a 50% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice B, why would anyone bet on choice B? You don't gain anything by taking on the extra risk and worse odds. You just lessen your chances of winning the prize.

 

[newfy]

Not sure who you were listening to/watching, but the predominant take leading up to the draft was that Wallstedt was a generational type goalie prospect on par with the best we've seen in recent years. And that Cossa was only, in the late hour, entering the conversation due to his raw attributes mostly. And that didn't change on draft night or after, regardless of what a handful of heterodox analysts and pundits stated..And that can often be hyperbole also, like with Lafreniere who was never a generational talent, but in Wallstedt's case, all signs pointed to it being wholly true. I'm sure there were some pundits that were putting Cossa's raw attributes ahead of Wallstedts superior talent and ability.


And yes, I do think it is a matter of being "too clever". Meaning, anyone putting Cossa above Wallstedt then or now, is being too clever and only fooling themselves. It can happen to the best of them.

But this one is clear, especially today, but leading up to the draft as well. It was only within days of the draft from what I remember that this hyperbole about Cossa started ramping up and people as you say, began drooling over his raw attributes. Which happens leading up to many drafts, NFL, NBA, no different. And every draft numerous such errors in judgement are made. Occasionally they work out of course, but more often than not, they don't.

Can compare this a bit to the upcoming NFL draft. Someone is going to play the lotto on Anthony Richardso nand pass on Young/Struod quite possibly. With his ceiling I am kind of expecting it to happen. And they could get extremely lucky and he could turn into probably the most complete athlete QB that has ever played the game. Or he might end up being what many are worried about, just a super athlete trying to play QB, like many before, who tend to fail or at least not to live up to expectations.

But that's what situations like that are, playing the lotto. When you have as close to a sure thing as possible in front of you, and you pass it up reaching for something that may never actually be there and is only in "potential" form. In the case of Wallstedt and Cossa however, I don't know if it's exactly like Richardson in respec to the actual ceiling of the players involved. Even though Cossa is taller and has the raw attributes, I still don't think he will ever be better than Wallkstedt as the difference between them, in terms of what is necessary for a goalie, is not nearly as wide as the difference in ceiling in the above NFL situation. But the comparison I think is sound otherwise.

Anyway, look I'm not saying Cossa is bad or that he will turn out a failure or anything. It's just that the odds are nowhere near as good as for Wallstedt and I don't think ultimately the ceiling is as high even. But guess we will have to wait and see. Ultimately, it comes down to this. The best Cossa could probably hope to be is as good as Wallstedt seems to be. So why take on risk when it doesn't seem probable the outcome would be superior? If you stand a 75% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice A, and you stand only a 50% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice B, why would anyone bet on choice B? You don't gain anything by taking on the extra risk and worse odds. You just lessen your chances of winning the prize.

Wallstedt wasnt considered a generational cant miss type goalies on par with who we've seen in recent years

"Wallstedt is a decent candidate to crack the Top 10. Four of 10 scouts surveyed by TSN ranked him between No. 5 and No. 10. Cossa did not get any top-10 consideration from the scouts we surveyed, but four of 10 scouts did rank Cossa ahead of Wallstedt.

So, even though Wallstedt gets the higher consensus ranking, the prospect of Cossa going ahead of the Swede is by no means out of the question.

The scouts who like Cossa better than Wallstedt love his combination of size and athletic prowess. " - Power pulls away from crowded draft field - TSN.ca

Wallstedt was ranked 3 spots ahead on the consensus and 4 scouts had Cossa ahead of Wallstedt like I said

 

[Kibe]

Wallstedt wasnt considered a generational cant miss type goalies on par with who we've seen in recent years

"Wallstedt is a decent candidate to crack the Top 10. Four of 10 scouts surveyed by TSN ranked him between No. 5 and No. 10. Cossa did not get any top-10 consideration from the scouts we surveyed, but four of 10 scouts did rank Cossa ahead of Wallstedt.

So, even though Wallstedt gets the higher consensus ranking, the prospect of Cossa going ahead of the Swede is by no means out of the question.

The scouts who like Cossa better than Wallstedt love his combination of size and athletic prowess. " - Power pulls away from crowded draft field - TSN.ca

Wallstedt was ranked 3 spots ahead on the consensus and 4 scouts had Cossa ahead of Wallstedt like I said

Well Wallstedt was considered the #1 guy of the age group since he was 15 and was always very much in that Knight/Askarov category. I'm not saying Cossa was a bad pick or that playing in ECHL is terrible but i did feel like Wallstedt had the track record where Cossa just kind of catapulted close to that category in draft year, and i was suprised and even a bit dissapointed we passed on Wallstedt in favor of another goalie. But they are still very young and goalie is the most unpredictible position so we'll have to wait a few years before really judging this pick.

 

[Crunchy]

"The scouts told me this guy's name first and I recognize it AND wallstedt = wall + steady, so he's better"

"Here are some completely made up probabilities of success and arbitrary ceilings that I completely made up to prove my argument"

"This forum wasn't even talking about Cossa until leading up until the draft, so Wallstedt is better"

 

[Hen Kolland]

Not sure who you were listening to/watching, but the predominant take leading up to the draft was that Wallstedt was a generational type goalie prospect on par with the best we've seen in recent years. And that Cossa was only, in the late hour, entering the conversation due to his raw attributes mostly. And that didn't change on draft night or after, regardless of what a handful of heterodox analysts and pundits stated..And that can often be hyperbole also, like with Lafreniere who was never a generational talent, but in Wallstedt's case, all signs pointed to it being wholly true. I'm sure there were some pundits that were putting Cossa's raw attributes ahead of Wallstedts superior talent and ability.


And yes, I do think it is a matter of being "too clever". Meaning, anyone putting Cossa above Wallstedt then or now, is being too clever and only fooling themselves. It can happen to the best of them.

But this one is clear, especially today, but leading up to the draft as well. It was only within days of the draft from what I remember that this hyperbole about Cossa started ramping up and people as you say, began drooling over his raw attributes. Which happens leading up to many drafts, NFL, NBA, no different. And every draft numerous such errors in judgement are made. Occasionally they work out of course, but more often than not, they don't.

Can compare this a bit to the upcoming NFL draft. Someone is going to play the lotto on Anthony Richardso nand pass on Young/Struod quite possibly. With his ceiling I am kind of expecting it to happen. And they could get extremely lucky and he could turn into probably the most complete athlete QB that has ever played the game. Or he might end up being what many are worried about, just a super athlete trying to play QB, like many before, who tend to fail or at least not to live up to expectations.

But that's what situations like that are, playing the lotto. When you have as close to a sure thing as possible in front of you, and you pass it up reaching for something that may never actually be there and is only in "potential" form. In the case of Wallstedt and Cossa however, I don't know if it's exactly like Richardson in respec to the actual ceiling of the players involved. Even though Cossa is taller and has the raw attributes, I still don't think he will ever be better than Wallkstedt as the difference between them, in terms of what is necessary for a goalie, is not nearly as wide as the difference in ceiling in the above NFL situation. But the comparison I think is sound otherwise.

Anyway, look I'm not saying Cossa is bad or that he will turn out a failure or anything. It's just that the odds are nowhere near as good as for Wallstedt and I don't think ultimately the ceiling is as high even. But guess we will have to wait and see. Ultimately, it comes down to this. The best Cossa could probably hope to be is as good as Wallstedt seems to be. So why take on risk when it doesn't seem probable the outcome would be superior? If you stand a 75% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice A, and you stand only a 50% chance of winning a million bucks if you bet on choice B, why would anyone bet on choice B? You don't gain anything by taking on the extra risk and worse odds. You just lessen your chances of winning the prize.

What a giant post full of inaccuracies and nothing statements

 

[ChickenDinner]

This thread is so funny. Glad I clicked on it! Cossa was always a long term projection. 5+ years out. It was like that on draft day and it may still be the same today.

All this ECHL talk is irrelevant. Anybody that is paid by Detroit to watch this kid's development doesn't give two shits which league he's in right now at 20 years old. They certainly don't care about wins/losses/shutouts on his resume. Those are all bonuses. The internet people care a lot more than DRW do about his age 20 stats.

DRW are looking at his growth in net now compared to last year. Is he more polished? Is he more comfortable? Is he quicker side to side? Is he faster getting up? Is he tracking the puck better? These are the fundamentals DRW care about right now. Probably won't change for another 2-3 seasons.

The way internet people look at prospects and the way the pros look at prospects are totally different. I'm happy I can see both sides.

 

[jfrank21]

I mean, I was a gutted as anybody on draft night because I had followed Wallstedt very closely and when the Wings made the trade up, I jumped out of my seat just absolutely positive that they were grabbing him...only to be gut punched with the guy who I felt was a product of his team and the covid bubble. Watching Cossa in dev camps, prospect tourneys, the memorial cup, the Oil Kings playoff run, and in the WJC was a giant mixture of mostly disappointment for me and I've been vocal about it over the past 2 years...however, as everyone has pointed out, he's 20 playing in a mens league for the first time. He seems to have found his footing and is obviously crushing it since the turn of the year. And the ECHL is known for its lack of structure and ability to make the goalies look like sieves, so what he's doing legitimately has me excited for his future.

 

[brakeyawself]

What a giant post full of inaccuracies and nothing statements

What a blatant mischaracterization of a statement in an attempt to protect the thin veil of delusion. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[brakeyawself]

"The scouts told me this guy's name first and I recognize it AND wallstedt = wall + steady, so he's better"

"Here are some completely made up probabilities of success and arbitrary ceilings that I completely made up to prove my argument"

"This forum wasn't even talking about Cossa until leading up until the draft, so Wallstedt is better"

ROFL. Yea, all the "made up probabilities of success and arbitrary ceilings" all the projections presented by scouts and analysts leading up to the 2021 NHL Draft. And all the "made up" projections by every hockey related outlet, of every available level since. Yea..... it's all just "made up". uh huh.