Former Ducks 2022

[snowave]

but then you got traffic and earthquakes...

 

[DavidBL]

but then you got traffic and earthquakes...

You also have just about any activity available to you within a 1 hours drive from about anywhere you live in CA.

 

[snowave]

1 hr drive?... NOT.

 

[GreatBear]

You also have just about any activity available to you within a 1 hours drive from about anywhere you live in CA.

Actually I would say two hours. One Christmas week I made an effort to go skiing one day up in Big Bear and play golf the next day in the OC, followed by dinner that night at the beach. It is really hard to beat that for a lifestyle.

 

[darkwingduck]

His steakhouse is in Laguna Beach, idk where his house is but I'm sure it's in a nice neighborhood (possibly gated). He's not exactly slumming it up next to any riffraff to deserve this type of post.

By all means, move to Finland and get those 100k speeding tickets.

 

[snowave]

Hey, I love what CA has to offer... but so do the other 40 million people that live there. I left in 2012, and don't regret for a minute living in the mountains near towns with less than 5k people.

but back to the post... While he's not really wrong, still not a good look for Teemu. I really don't want to start hating the guy the everyone has loved for so long because of his political views.

 

[Bender66]

 

[Terry Yake]

Yeah another reason why the top UFA's historicly have avoided Californian teams.
They'd rather play in other states that are safer to raise a family.

All we got going for the Ducks is that OC is not as bad as LA, and that playing here you get the beach without hurricanes but then the players have to decide if that is enough to make up for the higher taxes and inflation.

not sure if serious

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Where was this said?

Many reports. I thought this was common knowledge that Lindholm wanted to stay and essentially retire a Duck with an 8-year term. Lindholm wanted an 8-year contract to stay with the Ducks at a cheap price, but Verbeek wanted a far shorter term like 5 years. Lindholm signed an 8-year contract for $6.5 mil AAV. That salary cap hit for D-men is ranked 29th overall, tied with four other D-men that includes Fowler. But I digress.

Here's the most recent article from the Athletic, Feb 14, 2023:

Claude Lemieux, Lindholm’s agent, told Verbeek his client wanted to stay long-term. The longest Verbeek would consider was a five-year extension. Lindholm realized that he, Manson, Rickard Rakell and Nicolas Deslauriers, all pending unrestricted free agents, were not long for Anaheim.​

​

“They made it pretty clear they wanted to get rid of me, Manson, Raks and the older guys,” said Lindholm. “They didn’t really make that big of an effort.”​

To bring this back to prospects, we have to hope the Ducks get something great with 4 darts: D Vaaks, 2022 first round pick C Gaucher, 2023 second round pick, and 2024 second round pick. Seeing the Bruins atop the league, all those picks will be far later picks in the draft. So far Vaaks is a dud. Gaucher looks like a stud shutdown 3C in the CHL.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Many reports. I thought this was common knowledge that Lindholm wanted to stay and essentially retire a Duck with an 8-year term. Lindholm wanted an 8-year contract to stay with the Ducks at a cheap price, but Verbeek wanted a far shorter term like 5 years. Lindholm signed an 8-year contract for $6.5 mil AAV. That salary cap hit for D-men is ranked 29th overall, tied with four other D-men that includes Fowler. But I digress.

Here's the most recent article from the Athletic, Feb 14, 2023:

Claude Lemieux, Lindholm’s agent, told Verbeek his client wanted to stay long-term. The longest Verbeek would consider was a five-year extension. Lindholm realized that he, Manson, Rickard Rakell and Nicolas Deslauriers, all pending unrestricted free agents, were not long for Anaheim.​

​

“They made it pretty clear they wanted to get rid of me, Manson, Raks and the older guys,” said Lindholm. “They didn’t really make that big of an effort.”​

To bring this back to prospects, we have to hope the Ducks get something great with 4 darts: D Vaaks, 2022 first round pick C Gaucher, 2023 second round pick, and 2024 second round pick. Seeing the Bruins atop the league, all those picks will be far later picks in the draft. So far Vaaks is a dud. Gaucher looks like a stud shutdown 3C in the CHL.

Thanks, I missed this it seems.

However I remember Lindholm answering question, late in 2021, whether he want's to re-sign very vaguely and not even close to something direct like is quoted above, so I am a bit skeptical of the accuracy of the events in that quote.

EDIT: here (29th Sept 2021)
Would you like to re-sign with the Ducks?

That’s something I don’t even think about right now. Whenever I get close to even considering it and I feel like it’s something that’s worth considering, then I’ll think about that. But right now, I just try to focus on my game. I have a lot of good stuff going in my life right now. I just try to enjoy every day. Be present. Control what I can control and that’s just what I can do on the ice.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

not sure if serious

Yeah it's serious and btw do you seriously believe the top UFAs find California's high home prices/high cost of living/high taxes attractive reason to sign with SJ/Ana/LA ?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

No, but Bob Murray let them get into their UFA year without signing them yet. I don't know why people assume he was going to lock them up at the last minute.

Weren't both Getzlaf and Perry signed that way? If anything BM has more history of signing his older players to contracts he nay shouldn't and not trade them as UFAs to be.

Getz and Perry did sign. Eaves signed an extension. Lindholm has expressed in media he wanted to stay long term. I dunno why people assume Bob wouldn't go locking them up. Guess people have narratives and omit history.

Getz got to be an UFA, fielded calls, and saw what he was worth. He said it felt great to see how the league saw him and he kinda needed that perspective in the Missin Curfew podcast.

 

[Terry Yake]

Yeah it's serious and btw do you seriously believe the top UFAs find California's high home prices/high cost of living/high taxes attractive reason to sign with SJ/Ana/LA ?

got a source for your claim that NHL UFAs avoid signing with CA teams over the safety of their families?

i don't think CA's high cost of living is a problem for top NHL UFAs or any "superstar" athlete considering how much money they make. if that was the case, why aren't they all signing in states like FL or TN where there's no tax?

 

[Ducks DVM]

I know it's technically against the rules to talk politics, but I don't think it should be with regards to his comments ( within reason of course). Totally understand you don't make the rules.

It's a (very) relevant former player voicing a strong opinion on an issue/topic that others on this site likely also have an informed opinion on.

The issue is that people regard any exception to start talking politics as an excuse to start injecting their own, then someone gets offended by that and injects their own, and then it’s a mud-slinging disaster. That fork in the road is already being taken.

So…no more politics on this topic.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Thanks, I missed this it seems.

However I remember Lindholm answering question, late in 2021, whether he want's to re-sign very vaguely and not even close to something direct like is quoted above, so I am a bit skeptical of the accuracy of the events in that quote.

EDIT: Mods, please move this post to the former Ducks thread, please. I got lost in just answering questions once again. thanks!

You asked for a source and I gave you one with a direct quote. And then you still question it? If a direct quote can't satisfy you, then nothing will.

Here's a Sept 29, 2021 article on Hampus Contract talks and staying healthy: (Remember, Hampus has been injury riddle for the previous two seasons.)

Would you like to re-sign with the Ducks?​

​

That’s something I don’t even think about right now. Whenever I get close to even considering it and I feel like it’s something that’s worth considering, then I’ll think about that. But right now, I just try to focus on my game. I have a lot of good stuff going in my life right now. I just try to enjoy every day. Be present. Control what I can control and that’s just what I can do on the ice.​

​

Have there been any contract talks since you were first eligible to sign a new deal? Are you fine with negotiating during the season?​

​

Yeah, there’s been a little bit. I let my agent handle that. I trust my agent. If they want to talk to me, I don’t think I have any way that I prefer to deal with it. But obviously, I’m not in the mood to sit and do anything crazy. I kind of know what kind of player and that’s what I’m going to focus on. Personally, this is a really big year like you said. I’m coming into my prime here so I just want to really make sure I keep taking those steps in the right direction. That’s all my focus. All the other stuff is going to just sort itself out. I have the best of my years to come here.​

​

Coming in, you look at (Victor) Hedman and all those guys. (Nicklas) Lidstrom. (Duncan) Keith. All those guys had their best years coming into their 27 to 33 years, between there. That’s my years coming in now. And I can tell. I had some of my best (testing) results this summer. I definitely feel like my body is getting stronger and better. And obviously on the ice, when you’ve been around the league for so long, you know where to be. … You just feel like it gets a little easier now when you get older. That’s all I’m focusing on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint, right? This season. Try to control what I can do every day. I know these next couple of years, I just want to improve each day, each season as a player. When I step on the ice, I want people to feel that I make a difference and make people better around me.​

There is nothing negative about his responses. He's really focused on just being healthy because of his previous injury riddled seasons, where last year he only played in 18 out of 56 games. There's been talks initiated between Lindholm's agent and the org. Lindholm lets his agent worry about the contract and Lindholm just focuses on his game on the ice.

Anyhow, here's a blurb from the Athletic published on Mar 19, 2022, Bruins sign Hampus Lindholm to 8-year extension 1 day after acquiring him from Ducks :

Why did the Ducks trade Lindholm?​

Eric Stephens, Ducks beat writer: The Ducks sought to keep Lindholm. But it is evident that Verbeek is turning his team toward a younger core with leading scorer Troy Terry and standout rookies Trevor Zegras and Jamie Drysdale at the heart of it. Verbeek wanted Lindholm — but not for a huge deal covering seven or eight years that would have taken the Swede into his mid-30s. Lindholm could make north of $7 million annually in his next contract.​

I found an article around the TDL. It's consistent proof Lindholm wanted to stay and at a hometown discount. A salary north of $7 mil was projected, but he signed with the Bruins for less.

Lindholm let his agent do the negotiating. If Lindholm stays healthy instead of injured, then it works out for both Lindholm and the Ducks org. For reference, in 2019-20, Lindholm played 55 out of 71 games. In 2020-21, he played only 18 out of 56 games. Finally, in 2021-22, Lindholm was able to play in 61 out of 63 games before being traded.

 

[duckpuck]

We can if he identifies the team. It’s the only way he can burn a year of his ELC this year, so he has incentive to do so.

Might get us a 5th-7th.

If all the ducks can get is a 5th-7th, then I say don't trade him. Let Thrun share the pain by not burning a year of his ELC.

At some point, you need to send a message on these issues - i.e., that the ducks won't just roll over if the return isn't sufficient.

I dunno. I think Bob probably feels sadden at the state the Ducks are in compared to what he probably would have done. Murray's often paid the org forward and the org losing Thrun probably makes him as mad as he was when he found out Schultz didn't want to be a Duck.

Bob is really too loyal of a guy to his players and owners, he protected Des at the Seattle XD. Hearing how Lindholm wanted to stay a Duck, but was still traded away just shows how much Murray made his players feel comfy in Anaheim. Unfortunately, Bob couldn't extend that comfort to his front office.

You never miss an opportunity to defend Murray. Much of this is just made up.

I have some news for you. Bob was widely reviled by those who worked with, for and around him. He was abusive - it is why he was fired. Not just a little abusive, but a lot. Full stop - he was an absolute jerk. I don't understand why you defend the guy.

There were plenty of players who openly said bad things about the guy. And he held on to players too long, driving down the return to the ducks. He failed to commence a real rebuild. It set the Ducks back several years.

It sucked loosing Lindholm (and to a lesser extent Des, Manson and Rackell). But other than Des whose contract demands were more reasonable and shorter term, those guys have no place on a rebuilding ducks team. There is literally no point in having highly paid (arguably overpaid) guys on your team that are signed for 6-8 years, with the final 3-4 years having the player in almost certain decline. To the extent you're claiming Bob should/would have retained any of those guys, then I think your completely misguided.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

EDIT: Mods, please move this post to the former Ducks thread, please. I got lost in just answering questions once again. thanks!

You asked for a source and I gave you one with a direct quote. And then you still question it? If a direct quote can't satisfy you, then nothing will.

Here's a Sept 29, 2021 article on Hampus Contract talks and staying healthy: (Remember, Hampus has been injury riddle for the previous two seasons.)

Would you like to re-sign with the Ducks?​

​

That’s something I don’t even think about right now. Whenever I get close to even considering it and I feel like it’s something that’s worth considering, then I’ll think about that. But right now, I just try to focus on my game. I have a lot of good stuff going in my life right now. I just try to enjoy every day. Be present. Control what I can control and that’s just what I can do on the ice.​

​

Have there been any contract talks since you were first eligible to sign a new deal? Are you fine with negotiating during the season?​

​

Yeah, there’s been a little bit. I let my agent handle that. I trust my agent. If they want to talk to me, I don’t think I have any way that I prefer to deal with it. But obviously, I’m not in the mood to sit and do anything crazy. I kind of know what kind of player and that’s what I’m going to focus on. Personally, this is a really big year like you said. I’m coming into my prime here so I just want to really make sure I keep taking those steps in the right direction. That’s all my focus. All the other stuff is going to just sort itself out. I have the best of my years to come here.​

​

Coming in, you look at (Victor) Hedman and all those guys. (Nicklas) Lidstrom. (Duncan) Keith. All those guys had their best years coming into their 27 to 33 years, between there. That’s my years coming in now. And I can tell. I had some of my best (testing) results this summer. I definitely feel like my body is getting stronger and better. And obviously on the ice, when you’ve been around the league for so long, you know where to be. … You just feel like it gets a little easier now when you get older. That’s all I’m focusing on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint, right? This season. Try to control what I can do every day. I know these next couple of years, I just want to improve each day, each season as a player. When I step on the ice, I want people to feel that I make a difference and make people better around me.​

There is nothing negative about his responses. He's really focused on just being healthy because of his previous injury riddled seasons, where last year he only played in 18 out of 56 games. There's been talks initiated between Lindholm's agent and the org. Lindholm lets his agent worry about the contract and Lindholm just focuses on his game on the ice.

Anyhow, here's a blurb from the Athletic published on Mar 19, 2022, Bruins sign Hampus Lindholm to 8-year extension 1 day after acquiring him from Ducks :

Why did the Ducks trade Lindholm?​

Eric Stephens, Ducks beat writer: The Ducks sought to keep Lindholm. But it is evident that Verbeek is turning his team toward a younger core with leading scorer Troy Terry and standout rookies Trevor Zegras and Jamie Drysdale at the heart of it. Verbeek wanted Lindholm — but not for a huge deal covering seven or eight years that would have taken the Swede into his mid-30s. Lindholm could make north of $7 million annually in his next contract.​

I found an article around the TDL. It's consistent proof Lindholm wanted to stay and at a hometown discount. A salary north of $7 mil was projected, but he signed with the Bruins for less.

Lindholm let his agent do the negotiating. If Lindholm stays healthy instead of injured, then it works out for both Lindholm and the Ducks org. For reference, in 2019-20, Lindholm played 55 out of 71 games. In 2020-21, he played only 18 out of 56 games. Finally, in 2021-22, Lindholm was able to play in 61 out of 63 games before being traded.

I asked where that was said, after you provided the quote, I said thanks. No need to get defensive.

This is no matter of satisfying me, I am questioning the accuracy of events as he described them in that quote because he gave vague answer to a direct question whether he wants to re-sign. Usually players who want to re-sign and retire with the team do not answer like that.

Focusing on staying healthy and being the best you can be has no correlation to answering straight question like that.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Actually I would say two hours. One Christmas week I made an effort to go skiing one day up in Big Bear and play golf the next day in the OC, followed by dinner that night at the beach. It is really hard to beat that for a lifestyle.

Big Bear shout out!

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I dunno. I think Bob probably feels sadden at the state the Ducks are in compared to what he probably would have done. Murray's often paid the org forward and the org losing Thrun probably makes him as mad as he was when he found out Schultz didn't want to be a Duck.

Bob is really too loyal of a guy to his players and owners, he protected Des at the Seattle XD. Hearing how Lindholm wanted to stay a Duck, but was still traded away just shows how much Murray made his players feel comfy in Anaheim. Unfortunately, Bob couldn't extend that comfort to his front office.

You never miss an opportunity to defend Murray. Much of this is just made up.

I have some news for you. Bob was widely reviled by those who worked with, for and around him. He was abusive - it is why he was fired. Not just a little abusive, but a lot. Full stop - he was an absolute jerk. I don't understand why you defend the guy.

There were plenty of players who openly said bad things about the guy. And he held on to players too long, driving down the return to the ducks. He failed to commence a real rebuild. It set the Ducks back several years.

It sucked loosing Lindholm (and to a lesser extent Des, Manson and Rackell). But other than Des whose contract demands were more reasonable and shorter term, those guys have no place on a rebuilding ducks team. There is literally no point in having highly paid (arguably overpaid) guys on your team that are signed for 6-8 years, with the final 3-4 years having the player in almost certain decline. To the extent you're claiming Bob should/would have retained any of those guys, then I think your completely misguided.

It's clear your are letting your emotions lose sight of comprehension. I called out Bob's negatives, but you seem to lack comprehension that I called it out. You should check yo self b/c it looks like you've already wrecked yo self.

There must be some history revisionist history here. Before the collapse of Kesler, Eaves, and Perry, Bob took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of 10 years, including five consecutive Pacific division titles and two WCF appearances. What set back was there during those times? You can lie to yourself all you want, but there wasn't any setback there. The setback happened when both Kesler and Eaves' health occurred in the same season, but we were still able to make the playoffs in 2017-18. Bob tried to give Carlyle more offense and traded away prospect D Pettersson for F Sprong. It just didn't matter b/c we couldn't overcome the lack of missing for 2018-19 with Perry added to the injury list to Kesler and Eaves. That's when Murray took over as interim head coach and decided to rebuild the team starting at the 2018-19 TDL, trading away D Monty for prospect D Guhle and a 2019 first round pick, turning out to be Tracey.

Since the rebuild started, here what Bob got for notable prospects

2019

9th overall, C Zegras (already in NHL and an offensive wizard)​

29th, LW Tracey (in AHL)​

39th, D LaCombe (intent to sign after NCAA season is over)​

2020

6th, RD Drysdale (already in NHL)​

27th, RW Perreault (in AHL)​

67th, RD Moore (in NCAA... not yet signed, year 3 from draft)​

2021

3rd, C McTavish (already in NHL, Ducks' top-4 scorer)​

34th, LD Zellweger (CHL, signed)​

66th, RW Pastujov (CHL, signed)​

76th, LD Hinds (CHL, signed)​

98th, C Lopina (AHL)​

130th, LW Tschigerl (CHL, not signed)​

148th, G Alexander (AHL/ECHL)​

162nd, C Kukkonen (NCAA... not yet signed, year 2 from draft)​

It's very odd to think there's only one way to build/rebuild an org. Verbeek chose the long way back to relevancy.

Under Murray, the Ducks took off to start the 2021-22 season to be atop the Pacific Division. Apparently, the org did have talent to get that high. In fact, when new GM Verbeek took over, the Ducks were still 3rd in the Pacific despite the many injuries after game 33. That would mean the Ducks are just missing talent depth, especially on defense.

Armed with pillars set up with Terry, Z, Lundy, and Drysdale along with both McTavish and Zellweger tearing up the CHL as well as having a top-5 farm team, Bob could have retained the UFA's and just added more talent via FA. The Kings became a playoff team by adding two top-6 forwards (FA and trade) and a vet D (FA) to their roster for 2021-22. Seattle and NJ did the same thing as the Kings did this past summer, both are primed for a playoff spot this year.

Now, with knowledge that Lindholm signed for $6.5 mil AAV for 8 years, he comes relatively cheap as a #1D. In four to five years, that $6;5 AVV won't be as detrimental to the cap as the cap space will be rising.

The other aspect of retaining the UFAs and adding talent from outside of the org is that most of the team knows Eakins' system. It's easier to teach a couple of new players to the system than over half the roster, which is what we're witnessing today.

Verbeek did state he expected the team to be close to or at .500 with his roster makeup. This should scare you as his pro scouting appears to have been misguided with his acquisitions.

Let's bring this back to success. Before going into rebuild mode, Murray took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of the 10 years. The Twins are no longer superstars and Anaheim simply ran out of top end prospects due to rarely picking in the top 10, let alone the top-20. Before the rebuild (2018-19 TDL), Bob only had two top-10 picks in 6th overall Lindholm and 10th overall Ritchie. Now with the rebuild, Murray landed top pillars in Zegras, Drysdale, and McTavish.

The thing about Murray is he tinkers and pays things forward for the org. For example, 2009 first round pick Peter Holland was eventually traded and we found Kase. Kase had concussion issues and we traded him for D Andersson and a 1st round pick LW Tracey. Both Andersson and Tracey are in the AHL today, 14 years after Holland was drafted by Murray.

Verbeek is a rubric guy. PV has charts for term to age relationships that he abides by strictly. That implies Verbeek doesn't tinker and creativity is out the door. Verbeek doesn't want to deal with cap crunch, which is why he's loading up on picks and prospects to help mitigate future cap concerns. I've accepted that since last year's TDL. Doing this way means build through the draft and that will take a long time.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I asked where that was said, after you provided the quote, I said thanks. No need to get defensive.

This is no matter of satisfying me, I am questioning the accuracy of events as he described them in that quote because he gave vague answer to a direct question whether he wants to re-sign. Usually players who want to re-sign and retire with the team do not answer like that.

Focusing on staying healthy and being the best you can be has no correlation to answering straight question like that.

So you're a mind reader now.

Remember how so many people and media kept saying Gibby wanted out for years now? Yeah, mind reading.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

So you're a mind reader now.

Remember how so many people and media kept saying Gibby wanted out for years now? Yeah, mind reading.

I am expressing doubt over version of events as he described them because he gave a vague answer when asked a straight question about whether he wants to re-sign.

There's a stark difference between the two.

 

[Deuce22]

So you're a mind reader now.

Remember how so many people and media kept saying Gibby wanted out for years now? Yeah, mind reading.

Mind reading. Kind of like reading the mind of Murray and deducing that because he signed Perry and Getzlaf he would do the same with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell. Mind reading.

 

[DavidBL]

Mind reading. Kind of like reading the mind of Murray and deducing that because he signed Perry and Getzlaf he would do the same with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell. Mind reading.

Is it any different than suggesting he wouldn't just because they hadn't yet? We don't know at all if BM was or wasn't and there is nothing to suggest one or the other. Unless there was a report that said BM was preparing to trade any/all of them.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

For all we know Murray could've held onto all the pending UFAs past the trade deadline and lost them all for nothing in the off-season.

Point being, this discussion is stupid. Who the hell cares what Murray would've done? He's gone and that's all that matters. Good riddance.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

Zegras is still learning the ropes, while it took Terry years to get his shit together.

And no - I wouldn’t want Manson and Palmieri. Both players were inconsistent. Palmieri was given so many chances and traded away so quickly

There's a lot wrong with this so I'll just point out the most obvious one.

Palmieri was not given any chance when he was here. He was stuck on the depth chart behind Perry and Silfverberg. He did well on the third line and consistently showed he could perform in a top 6 role if given the opportunity - but that never happened here.

The moment he was given the opportunity on another team he showed what everyone (other than you, apparently) already knew.

It's fine to disagree on things, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. And you? You're dead wrong.