Former Ducks 2022

Status
Not open for further replies.

12ozPapa

Make space for The Papa
Sponsor
Feb 13, 2012
2,813
2,128
It's clear your are letting your emotions lose sight of comprehension. I called out Bob's negatives, but you seem to lack comprehension that I called it out. You should check yo self b/c it looks like you've already wrecked yo self.

There must be some history revisionist history here. Before the collapse of Kesler, Eaves, and Perry, Bob took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of 10 years, including five consecutive Pacific division titles and two WCF appearances. What set back was there during those times? You can lie to yourself all you want, but there wasn't any setback there. The setback happened when both Kesler and Eaves' health occurred in the same season, but we were still able to make the playoffs in 2017-18. Bob tried to give Carlyle more offense and traded away prospect D Pettersson for F Sprong. It just didn't matter b/c we couldn't overcome the lack of missing for 2018-19 with Perry added to the injury list to Kesler and Eaves. That's when Murray took over as interim head coach and decided to rebuild the team starting at the 2018-19 TDL, trading away D Monty for prospect D Guhle and a 2019 first round pick, turning out to be Tracey.

Since the rebuild started, here what Bob got for notable prospects

2019
9th overall, C Zegras (already in NHL and an offensive wizard)​
29th, LW Tracey (in AHL)​
39th, D LaCombe (intent to sign after NCAA season is over)​

2020
6th, RD Drysdale (already in NHL)​
27th, RW Perreault (in AHL)​
67th, RD Moore (in NCAA... not yet signed, year 3 from draft)​

2021
3rd, C McTavish (already in NHL, Ducks' top-4 scorer)​
34th, LD Zellweger (CHL, signed)​
66th, RW Pastujov (CHL, signed)​
76th, LD Hinds (CHL, signed)​
98th, C Lopina (AHL)​
130th, LW Tschigerl (CHL, not signed)​
148th, G Alexander (AHL/ECHL)​
162nd, C Kukkonen (NCAA... not yet signed, year 2 from draft)​

It's very odd to think there's only one way to build/rebuild an org. Verbeek chose the long way back to relevancy.

Under Murray, the Ducks took off to start the 2021-22 season to be atop the Pacific Division. Apparently, the org did have talent to get that high. In fact, when new GM Verbeek took over, the Ducks were still 3rd in the Pacific despite the many injuries after game 33. That would mean the Ducks are just missing talent depth, especially on defense.

Armed with pillars set up with Terry, Z, Lundy, and Drysdale along with both McTavish and Zellweger tearing up the CHL as well as having a top-5 farm team, Bob could have retained the UFA's and just added more talent via FA. The Kings became a playoff team by adding two top-6 forwards (FA and trade) and a vet D (FA) to their roster for 2021-22. Seattle and NJ did the same thing as the Kings did this past summer, both are primed for a playoff spot this year.

Now, with knowledge that Lindholm signed for $6.5 mil AAV for 8 years, he comes relatively cheap as a #1D. In four to five years, that $6;5 AVV won't be as detrimental to the cap as the cap space will be rising.

The other aspect of retaining the UFAs and adding talent from outside of the org is that most of the team knows Eakins' system. It's easier to teach a couple of new players to the system than over half the roster, which is what we're witnessing today.

Verbeek did state he expected the team to be close to or at .500 with his roster makeup. This should scare you as his pro scouting appears to have been misguided with his acquisitions.

Let's bring this back to success. Before going into rebuild mode, Murray took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of the 10 years. The Twins are no longer superstars and Anaheim simply ran out of top end prospects due to rarely picking in the top 10, let alone the top-20. Before the rebuild (2018-19 TDL), Bob only had two top-10 picks in 6th overall Lindholm and 10th overall Ritchie. Now with the rebuild, Murray landed top pillars in Zegras, Drysdale, and McTavish.

The thing about Murray is he tinkers and pays things forward for the org. For example, 2009 first round pick Peter Holland was eventually traded and we found Kase. Kase had concussion issues and we traded him for D Andersson and a 1st round pick LW Tracey. Both Andersson and Tracey are in the AHL today, 14 years after Holland was drafted by Murray.

Verbeek is a rubric guy. PV has charts for term to age relationships that he abides by strictly. That implies Verbeek doesn't tinker and creativity is out the door. Verbeek doesn't want to deal with cap crunch, which is why he's loading up on picks and prospects to help mitigate future cap concerns. I've accepted that since last year's TDL. Doing this way means build through the draft and that will take a long time.
My God….
 
  • Like
Reactions: duckpuck

Smirnov2Chistov

Fire Greg Cronin!
Jan 21, 2011
5,659
4,351
Massachusetts
There's a lot wrong with this so I'll just point out the most obvious one.

Palmieri was not given any chance when he was here. He was stuck on the depth chart behind Perry and Silfverberg. He did well on the third line and consistently showed he could perform in a top 6 role if given the opportunity - but that never happened here.

The moment he was given the opportunity on another team he showed what everyone (other than you, apparently) already knew.

It's fine to disagree on things, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. And you? You're dead wrong.

Palmieri was inconsistent when he was here. If he had success, he would’ve pushed one of the other wingers out. I’m glad he found success and thrived in New Jersey, but it never worked out for him here.

Manson was very inconsistent here the past couple years. I guess we can just forget about that?

I stand by my opinion, and I respect those who don’t agree with me. This ‘situation’ regarding college drafted players seems to happen a bit too often lately. I would rather stick with junior players from Canada (or even Euros) that show a bit more loyalty to drafted teams than collegiate players.
 

FiveHoleTickler

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2018
3,872
6,138
Palmieri was inconsistent when he was here. If he had success, he would’ve pushed one of the other wingers out. I’m glad he found success and thrived in New Jersey, but it never worked out for him here.

Manson was very inconsistent here the past couple years. I guess we can just forget about that?

I stand by my opinion, and I respect those who don’t agree with me. This ‘situation’ regarding college drafted players seems to happen a bit too often lately. I would rather stick with junior players from Canada (or even Euros) that show a bit more loyalty to drafted teams than collegiate players.
"Inconsistent"

Screenshot_20230216-155229_Firefox.jpg
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Smirnov2Chistov

FiveHoleTickler

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2018
3,872
6,138
You call those stats impressive? Be honest here. Certainly he didn’t impress the GM if he was shipped off
He consistently improved every single year. That's the opposite of inconsistent, which was your point (which is wrong).

Sure, every player that gets traded is a result of the GM not being impressed. That Gretzky guy must have really stunk in Edmonton, eh?

It's weird how hard you're trying (and failing) to be right.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Smirnov2Chistov

cheesymc

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
4,159
1,856
Irvine
Visit site
You call those stats impressive? Be honest here. Certainly he didn’t impress the GM if he was shipped off

He didn’t get any Power Play opportunities to shine. You could see the talent and he just needed the time that guys like Perry were gobbling up. He blew up in NJ… just look at his PP points.

It was such a boneheaded trade at the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FiveHoleTickler

duckpuck

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 10, 2007
2,596
2,728
It's clear your are letting your emotions lose sight of comprehension. I called out Bob's negatives, but you seem to lack comprehension that I called it out. You should check yo self b/c it looks like you've already wrecked yo self.

There must be some history revisionist history here. Before the collapse of Kesler, Eaves, and Perry, Bob took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of 10 years, including five consecutive Pacific division titles and two WCF appearances. What set back was there during those times? You can lie to yourself all you want, but there wasn't any setback there. The setback happened when both Kesler and Eaves' health occurred in the same season, but we were still able to make the playoffs in 2017-18. Bob tried to give Carlyle more offense and traded away prospect D Pettersson for F Sprong. It just didn't matter b/c we couldn't overcome the lack of missing for 2018-19 with Perry added to the injury list to Kesler and Eaves. That's when Murray took over as interim head coach and decided to rebuild the team starting at the 2018-19 TDL, trading away D Monty for prospect D Guhle and a 2019 first round pick, turning out to be Tracey.

Since the rebuild started, here what Bob got for notable prospects

2019
9th overall, C Zegras (already in NHL and an offensive wizard)​
29th, LW Tracey (in AHL)​
39th, D LaCombe (intent to sign after NCAA season is over)​

2020
6th, RD Drysdale (already in NHL)​
27th, RW Perreault (in AHL)​
67th, RD Moore (in NCAA... not yet signed, year 3 from draft)​

2021
3rd, C McTavish (already in NHL, Ducks' top-4 scorer)​
34th, LD Zellweger (CHL, signed)​
66th, RW Pastujov (CHL, signed)​
76th, LD Hinds (CHL, signed)​
98th, C Lopina (AHL)​
130th, LW Tschigerl (CHL, not signed)​
148th, G Alexander (AHL/ECHL)​
162nd, C Kukkonen (NCAA... not yet signed, year 2 from draft)​

It's very odd to think there's only one way to build/rebuild an org. Verbeek chose the long way back to relevancy.

Under Murray, the Ducks took off to start the 2021-22 season to be atop the Pacific Division. Apparently, the org did have talent to get that high. In fact, when new GM Verbeek took over, the Ducks were still 3rd in the Pacific despite the many injuries after game 33. That would mean the Ducks are just missing talent depth, especially on defense.

Armed with pillars set up with Terry, Z, Lundy, and Drysdale along with both McTavish and Zellweger tearing up the CHL as well as having a top-5 farm team, Bob could have retained the UFA's and just added more talent via FA. The Kings became a playoff team by adding two top-6 forwards (FA and trade) and a vet D (FA) to their roster for 2021-22. Seattle and NJ did the same thing as the Kings did this past summer, both are primed for a playoff spot this year.

Now, with knowledge that Lindholm signed for $6.5 mil AAV for 8 years, he comes relatively cheap as a #1D. In four to five years, that $6;5 AVV won't be as detrimental to the cap as the cap space will be rising.

The other aspect of retaining the UFAs and adding talent from outside of the org is that most of the team knows Eakins' system. It's easier to teach a couple of new players to the system than over half the roster, which is what we're witnessing today.

Verbeek did state he expected the team to be close to or at .500 with his roster makeup. This should scare you as his pro scouting appears to have been misguided with his acquisitions.

Let's bring this back to success. Before going into rebuild mode, Murray took the Ducks to the playoffs 8 out of the 10 years. The Twins are no longer superstars and Anaheim simply ran out of top end prospects due to rarely picking in the top 10, let alone the top-20. Before the rebuild (2018-19 TDL), Bob only had two top-10 picks in 6th overall Lindholm and 10th overall Ritchie. Now with the rebuild, Murray landed top pillars in Zegras, Drysdale, and McTavish.

The thing about Murray is he tinkers and pays things forward for the org. For example, 2009 first round pick Peter Holland was eventually traded and we found Kase. Kase had concussion issues and we traded him for D Andersson and a 1st round pick LW Tracey. Both Andersson and Tracey are in the AHL today, 14 years after Holland was drafted by Murray.

Verbeek is a rubric guy. PV has charts for term to age relationships that he abides by strictly. That implies Verbeek doesn't tinker and creativity is out the door. Verbeek doesn't want to deal with cap crunch, which is why he's loading up on picks and prospects to help mitigate future cap concerns. I've accepted that since last year's TDL. Doing this way means build through the draft and that will take a long time.

Yes - clearly I was WAY OFF BASE in asserting you defend Murray at every opportunity. What could possibly give me that idea? Certainly not overly long posts with a lot of revisionist history.
 

Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
54,291
33,330
Long Beach, CA
Palmieri was traded because BM said that the players who weren’t showing up, again, in the playoffs would be moved out. Palmieri responded by scoring 1G 3A 4P in 16 games, 2 points less than Nate Thompson scored in 4 fewer games. His possession stats weren’t special either. He was 24. He was traded for a player who had more points that year (2016 in Pittsburgh) than Palmieri had in his first 5 playoffs, and who had actually performed in the playoffs. Palmieri has 24 career playoff points, in 6 playoff seasons. hes hit 30 goals once, and has never gotten to 60 points. Let’s stop acting like we gave away the last Zegras.
 
Last edited:

Static

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2006
49,477
37,905
SoCal
Palmieri was traded because BM said that the players who weren’t showing up, again, in the playoffs would be moved out. Palmieri responded by scoring 1G 3A 4P in 16 games, 2 points less than Nate Thompson scored in 4 fewer games. His possession stats weren’t special either. He was 24. He was traded for a player who had more points that year (2016 in Pittsburgh) than Palmieri had in his first 5 playoffs, and who had actually performed in the playoffs. Palmieri has 24 career playoff points, in 6 playoff seasons. hes hit 30 goals once, and has never gotten to 60 points. Let’s stop acting like we gave away the last Zegras.
Yep, that playoff season doomed him because he just didn't show up.
 

Mr Rogers

Registered User
Jul 11, 2010
20,967
10,580
Calgary
Palmieri was traded because BM said that the players who weren’t showing up, again, in the playoffs would be moved out. Palmieri responded by scoring 1G 3A 4P in 16 games, 2 points less than Nate Thompson scored in 4 fewer games. His possession stats weren’t special either. He was 24. He was traded for a player who had more points that year (2016 in Pittsburgh) than Palmieri had in his first 5 playoffs, and who had actually performed in the playoffs. Palmieri has 24 career playoff points, in 6 playoff seasons. hes hit 30 goals once, and has never gotten to 60 points. Let’s stop acting like we gave away the last Zegras.
I think you're referring to Hagelin, and even when he was traded we received in return perhaps one of the few forwards i've seen who truly had great chemistry with Getzlaf. Palms was cool in 12-13 when he burst onto the scene but this wasn't one of the many Murray Blunders.
 

Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
54,291
33,330
Long Beach, CA
I think you're referring to Hagelin, and even when he was traded we received in return perhaps one of the few forwards i've seen who truly had great chemistry with Getzlaf. Palms was cool in 12-13 when he burst onto the scene but this wasn't one of the many Murray Blunders.
Yup. I think the inability to sign Perron because of not getting contracts done with Lindholm and Rakell (and needing to save the cap space to prevent offer sheets) is what really kept the team from staying on top.
 

FiveHoleTickler

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2018
3,872
6,138
Palmieri was traded because BM said that the players who weren’t showing up, again, in the playoffs would be moved out. Palmieri responded by scoring 1G 3A 4P in 16 games, 2 points less than Nate Thompson scored in 4 fewer games. His possession stats weren’t special either. He was 24. He was traded for a player who had more points that year (2016 in Pittsburgh) than Palmieri had in his first 5 playoffs, and who had actually performed in the playoffs. Palmieri has 24 career playoff points, in 6 playoff seasons. hes hit 30 goals once, and has never gotten to 60 points. Let’s stop acting like we gave away the last Zegras.
That last sentence is so disingenuous. Nobody here is acting like we gave away the last Zegras.

Get a grip man.
 

FiveHoleTickler

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2018
3,872
6,138
People are acting like we gave away something considerably more than a middle 6 playoff choker. We got back a better player who didn’t fit the system. That was clear hyperbole to make a point. Don’t make it personal.
Sorry, I'm trying to read between the lines but I can't.

What the hell are you talking about?
 

MMC

Global Moderator
May 11, 2014
51,342
43,450
Orange County, CA
Palmieri was traded because BM said that the players who weren’t showing up, again, in the playoffs would be moved out. Palmieri responded by scoring 1G 3A 4P in 16 games, 2 points less than Nate Thompson scored in 4 fewer games. His possession stats weren’t special either. He was 24. He was traded for a player who had more points that year (2016 in Pittsburgh) than Palmieri had in his first 5 playoffs, and who had actually performed in the playoffs. Palmieri has 24 career playoff points, in 6 playoff seasons. hes hit 30 goals once, and has never gotten to 60 points. Let’s stop acting like we gave away the last Zegras.
Etem was traded for Hagelin, not Palms
 
  • Like
Reactions: FiveHoleTickler

FiveHoleTickler

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2018
3,872
6,138
“Get a grip” is making it personal.

No idea what is hard to interpret past that, my posts were pretty straightforward. Palmieri just isn’t good enough to be arguing over.
I've seen far worse than that on here be outright ignored by mods.

The only thing I addressed was that you said anyone was saying Palmieri was Zegras. No one said that, so that's a weird thing to say.

It's even more weird now that you seem to have a problem with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad